Is there any place for blasphemy laws in the twenty first century?

[TagliatelliMonster]

Well, never said it.

Except that you did:

You should understand why they do it. Their purpose is to increase their followers. Even this Hebdo matter everyone knows that their number of followers had gone down so this is a boost to their instagram followers and of course the business overall.

So that's why they do it.

You said that the reason why they do it ("it", being cartoons about islam), is to increase their business as a result of their "followers going down".

I already replied to that post. You then replied to that reply by ignoring 90% of it and instead quoted only the least relevant sentence, which I called you on as well.

I think you are just making things up

Nope. As can be seen in the quote above, you factually accused them of deliberatly targetting muslims in an attempt to make up for a loss in their business. As if that was the reason.

And you assert this, without any kind of evidence. And you simply completely ignored my post that explained how it's a false assertion.

If you are fishing for an argument you like to make for yourself, dont make up things

As you can see in the quote above, I'm not making anything up. You factually accused CH of that.

Wait till someone slips up and then pounce on them. More enjoyable and doesnt make you look desperate for an opportunity to insult people for some life.

I didn't insult you. Now, who's making things up?

 

[firedragon]

Except that you did:



You said that the reason why they do it ("it", being cartoons about islam), is to increase their business as a result of their "followers going down".

I already replied to that post. You then replied to that reply by ignoring 90% of it and instead quoted only the least relevant sentence, which I called you on as well.





Nope. As can be seen in the quote above, you factually accused them of deliberatly targetting muslims in an attempt to make up for a loss in their business. As if that was the reason.

And you assert this, without any kind of evidence. And you simply completely ignored my post that explained how it's a false assertion.



As you can see in the quote above, I'm not making anything up. You factually accused CH of that.



I didn't insult you. Now, who's making things up?

Please make things up. Its entertaining.

You clarified, and this is what I said.

Any media institution be it one to one or one to many, print, radio, TV, Digital etc etc what ever it is, if you could get the reaction that Muslims sometimes provide thinking they are voicing against matters like Charlie Hebdo, that's a great achievement. Media professionals bank on this kind of reaction because it helps with ratings. All media companies do this and I dont blame them. Thats strategy.

But you intentionally made something up I never said for your satisfaction.

"let's have them attack and kill us so that we can sell more copies".

SO you lied. Its strange to see people make something up and argue against it.

Find some other kind of satisfaction mate rather than making up lies about people. Work on it.

Ciao.

 

[columbus]

Interesting and very true. But which country or countries are these particular Muslims you got to know from?

All over the place, they were students and professors (and families)at a big university, Indiana University. It's a really diverse group.
Tom

 

[firedragon]

All over the place, they were students and professors (and families)at a big university, Indiana University. It's a really diverse group.
Tom

But which country or countries are these particular Muslims you got to know from?

I think you misunderstood my question. Your understanding of a sentiment is correct, but it maybe subjective. Thats why I asked where these people came from.

 

[columbus]

But which country or countries are these particular Muslims you got to know from?

Seriously, they came from darned near every Muslim country there is.
I remember one elderly economics prof. His ties to the Pahlavi regime were close enough that he took his whole family and fled Iran in 79.
Another fun young guy was a Saudi playboy. He was majoring in engineering or something, and minoring in girls and beer.

Two of favorites were a married couple, Rhani and Michael. She was a cute little thing. She grew up in a fairly wealthy, secular Muslim family in Indonesia. When she came here to USA, for university, she found that she preferred a more conservative Muslim lifestyle than her friends and family back home. One thing she found was that in more conservative clothing men took her much more seriously. When she was wearing the scarf thing(hajib?), men started talking to her instead of her boobs. Michael is a big, burly, black dude from Oklahoma. He grew up in a conservative evangelical family. While doing prison ministry he met his Muslim counterparts and was so impressed he started looking into Islam and eventually converted.
I also remember people specifically from Iraq, Syria, Jordan, and Lebanon. I'm sure there were others. The group was over a hundred.

And honestly, not all them felt the way I mentioned. And they weren't a representative sample of Muslims, they were the highly educated Muslims who lived in a small Indiana city for some reason. And most either planned or wanted to return to their home country. But I heard variations on the sentiment fairly often.
Tom

 

[firedragon]

Seriously, they came from darned near every Muslim country there is.
I remember one elderly economics prof. His ties to the Pahlavi regime were close enough that he took his whole family and fled Iran in 79.
Another fun young guy was a Saudi playboy. He was majoring in engineering or something, and minoring in girls and beer.

Two of favorites were a married couple, Rhani and Michael. She was a cute little thing. She grew up in a fairly wealthy, secular Muslim family in Indonesia. When she came here to USA, for university, she found that she preferred a more conservative Muslim lifestyle than her friends and family back home. One thing she found was that in more conservative clothing men took her much more seriously. When she was wearing the scarf thing(hajib?), men started talking to her instead of her boobs. Michael is a big, burly, black dude from Oklahoma. He grew up in a conservative evangelical family. While doing prison ministry he met his Muslim counterparts and was so impressed he started looking into Islam and eventually converted.
I also remember people specifically from Iraq, Syria, Jordan, and Lebanon. I'm sure there were others. The group was over a hundred.

And honestly, not all them felt the way I mentioned. And they weren't a representative sample of Muslims, they were the highly educated Muslims who lived in a small Indiana city for some reason. And most either planned or wanted to return to their home country. But I heard variations on the sentiment fairly often.
Tom

Good response mate. Thanks for quenching my thirst. I understand what you say. Sorry, I just need specifics, that's who I am and it may offend people sometimes.

You are absolutely right in making that assessment that there are many Muslims who find it easier to practice their religion in a secular country where there is no "telling what to do". One thing you should also take from that finding is a lot of people like to stay away from pier pressure. That is one of the most prominent issues in the worlds of religion and when I say "worlds" I presume you get the gist.

If you travel to these countries you would find that they strangely have a different culture to what most people in the west or the east think. In Syria, right at the heart of the city of Damascus you would find ladies partying at noon by the side of the road. But Iraq would be a very different country of course and I have never been there and I can only quote hearsay. The rest of the countries you mentioned will have a surprisingly free culture. The governments do not put any force upon people to practice religions in some particular manner so maybe what they are actually communicating to you is the pier pressure of society. Thus, if they travel to a country like the United States where there is only one percent Muslims they have no feeling of any kind of social pressure. Thats what they are actually sharing with you.

Travel to some countries in Asia. They will never tell you this kind of thing because in their countries they dont have this pressure. In Indonesia it is in some areas where they will feel this, but not everywhere. Its the same in Malaysia. Also if you speak to Muslims in countries like the USA, India, Sri Lanka, you will definitely hear their freedom of religious practice but they only complain a little about the prototyping by the non-muslim society which is due to the lack of association to a very high degree in the US, and to a much lesser degree in the other countries due to the percentage of people in them. Also the sentiments you heard will be so vastly different if you travel to countries like the UAE and Bahrain. It is highly subjective and will vary so vastly it is the most malleable.

The reason I appreciate your research is because it speaks volumes about the whole world.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Please make things up. Its entertaining.

You clarified, and this is what I said.

Any media institution be it one to one or one to many, print, radio, TV, Digital etc etc what ever it is, if you could get the reaction that Muslims sometimes provide thinking they are voicing against matters like Charlie Hebdo, that's a great achievement. Media professionals bank on this kind of reaction because it helps with ratings. All media companies do this and I dont blame them. Thats strategy.

But you intentionally made something up I never said for your satisfaction.

"let's have them attack and kill us so that we can sell more copies".

SO you lied. Its strange to see people make something up and argue against it.

Find some other kind of satisfaction mate rather than making up lies about people. Work on it.

Ciao.

So you are just going to ignore the quote of yours I actually provided?

Here it is again:

You should understand why they do it. Their purpose is to increase their followers. Even this Hebdo matter everyone knows that their number of followers had gone down so this is a boost to their instagram followers and of course the business overall.

So that's why they do it.

You are flat out saying that the reason why CH created islam cartoons, is because "their number of followers had gone down so this is a boost to their following".

Please address this exact thing, instead of some other quote where you are talking more generally / about something else.

Here, you speak about CH specifically and you accuse them of deliberatly targetting muslims to get their ratings up. And in context of where you said that, it is implied that what would up the rating, would be the outrage and reaction of muslims, which would bring CH in the news, pigey backing on the news of violent riots.


It was in reply to a post from Amanaki saying "I can not stop anyone who draw pictures like that. But i can not understand why they do it."

You then went ahead and provide the "reason" above.

It's there for everyone to see. Anyone can read it.

If this accusation isn't what you meant, then you're going to have to explain what you actually meant.
But I expect that instead, you'll cut this short again with some one liner followed by "cheers" and never actually address it. And then fly away claiming victory. Like you usually do, especially when cornered.

 

[firedragon]

So you are just going to ignore the quote of yours I actually provided?

Here it is again:



You are flat out saying that the reason why CH created islam cartoons, is because "their number of followers had gone down so this is a boost to their following".

Please address this exact thing, instead of some other quote where you are talking more generally / about something else.

Here, you speak about CH specifically and you accuse them of deliberatly targetting muslims to get their ratings up. And in context of where you said that, it is implied that what would up the rating, would be the outrage and reaction of muslims, which would bring CH in the news, pigey backing on the news of violent riots.


It was in reply to a post from Amanaki saying "I can not stop anyone who draw pictures like that. But i can not understand why they do it."

You then went ahead and provide the "reason" above.

It's there for everyone to see. Anyone can read it.

If this accusation isn't what you meant, then you're going to have to explain what you actually meant.
But I expect that instead, you'll cut this short again with some one liner followed by "cheers" and never actually address it. And then fly away claiming victory. Like you usually do, especially when cornered.

Thats not to mean like you absolutely made up ""let's have them attack and kill us so that we can sell more copies".

If you misunderstood, clarify rather than making assumptions based on your personal opinion about others.

Bye.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Thats not to mean like you absolutely made up ""let's have them attack and kill us so that we can sell more copies".

These people were very well aware of the risks involved.
They received plenty of threats before hand already. In fact, when the attack happened, a police man was actually present in the meeting room as a body guard for one of the journalists who required protection from extremist islamists.

So no, it's not made up.

If you misunderstood, clarify rather than making assumptions based on your personal opinion about others.
Bye.

And still no acknowledgement of your accusations expressed in that post. ie, that they did it "on purpose" to up their ratings.

 

[firedragon]

These people were very well aware of the risks involved.
They received plenty of threats before hand already. In fact, when the attack happened, a police man was actually present in the meeting room as a body guard for one of the journalists who required protection from extremist islamists.

So no, it's not made up.



And still no acknowledgement of your accusations expressed in that post. ie, that they did it "on purpose" to up their ratings.

When you say "that they did it "on purpose" to up their ratings" what do you mean by "it"?

 

[columbus]

You are flat out saying that the reason why CH created islam cartoons, is because "their number of followers had gone down so this is a boost to their following".

Honestly, I had never heard of CH before the attack.

But I read a few opinion pieces, after the attack, from supporters. It seemed a general consensus that CH was targeting a hot issue. Muslims. Because their satire wasn't selling well and the magazine was on the verge of going under. Poking Muslims got attention. Therefore sales. They really were blaspheming for money.

One blogger posted his 10 favorite CH cartoons. I found them weak, myself. I could see why CH was going under. But I also know that comedy and satire don't translate well into other cultures and languages. So, I thought it was me not understanding. Yeah, I got the impression that CH was targeting Muslims to boost sales. But I think they'd have targeted Trump had he been available as a target.
Tom

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Honestly, I had never heard of CH before the attack.

But I read a few opinion pieces, after the attack, from supporters. It seemed a general consensus that CH was targeting a hot issue. Muslims. Because their satire wasn't selling well and the magazine was on the verge of going under. Poking Muslims got attention. Therefore sales. They really were blaspheming for money.

One blogger posted his 10 favorite CH cartoons. I found them weak, myself. I could see why CH was going under. But I also know that comedy and satire don't translate well into other cultures and languages. So, I thought it was me not understanding. Yeah, I got the impression that CH was targeting Muslims to boost sales. But I think they'd have targeted Trump had he been available as a target.
Tom

They targeted everybody that was newsworthy and it was hardly their first time targetting islam.
Them being a satire magazine, the targetting was always done through mocking and silly cartoons.

The supporters' post-hoc rationalisations (I have seen no evidence of such btw) are of no relevance to the actual motivations of the cartoonists and reporters that actually create the magazine.

EVERY cartoon they ever made was done to boost sales. The goal of any magazine, is to grow and sell copies.

The islamic cartoons were no different. To make a "special case" out of them, is simply not justified.
Magazines like that will always tackle topics that are relevant to the present times.

They make covid19 cartoons now too. They republishing of the islamic cartoons was also done for that reason: the trial started.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

When you say "that they did it "on purpose" to up their ratings" what do you mean by "it"?

The same thing you meant by it in the quoted post, when you said "So that's why they do it"

 

[firedragon]

The same thing you meant by it in the quoted post, when you said "So that's why they do it"

What is the "same thing"?