Is there any religious argument that actually stands when scrutinized with reason?

[Theunis]

Weak.

That's like saying the frog on my porch couldn't be there unless he flew to that spot.

Weak ? That is how many Christians see it.
If you were living on the Malay Peninsula or Indonesia it is quite possible that that frog did fly onto your porch
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallace's_flying_frog

 

[Theunis]

Yes. Cold and uncaring. The universe does nothing to help or hurt. Consider infectious diseases and massive mudslides when you consider sun and rain.

The universe is evidence for the universe. There is no evidence for God that cannot be claimed as evidence for some other invisible, undetectable being.

Yes but maybe that other, undetectable being is just another manifestation of God. Why were we equipped with everything we need to cope with life.?

Geologists warn us of the dangers in areas where mudslides can occur but we ignore them and build houses in the areas we were warned about.
In our times we have large research facilities into infectious diseases, again we were given the mental capacity to cope.

These things and much more will the sons of man do. Why we now even raise some of the "dead".
Man is not here to be babied or spoon-fed.

 

[outhouse]

That is a mighty bold claim.

But accurate.

God does not exist scientifically because there is nothing to test, nor has there ever been anything to test.


Just because there is a thing called bad evidence does not give his claim a "bold" status academically speaking

What would you call credible evidence ?

 

[Theunis]

But accurate.

God does not exist scientifically because there is nothing to test, nor has there ever been anything to test.


Just because there is a thing called bad evidence does not give his claim a "bold" status academically speaking

What would you call credible evidence ?

Hey man after forty years of research they did find the "God particle"

 

[prometheus11]

Yes but maybe that other, undetectable being is just another manifestation of God. Why were we equipped with everything we need to cope with life.?

Geologists warn us of the dangers in areas where mudslides can occur but we ignore them and build houses in the areas we were warned about.
In our times we have large research facilities into infectious diseases, again we were given the mental capacity to cope.

These things and much more will the sons of man do. Why we now even raise some of the "dead".
Man is not here to be babied or spoon-fed.

If you would like to label those things which cannot be detected "God" then you may. I will simply say that there's no sense speculating on ideas of men which cannot be detected.

If there is a god, he allows baby cancer and mass murder but doesn't allow us to fly by flapping our wings or the ability for a child to escape a molester.

 

[outhouse]

If there is a god,

What exist outside mythology is there that any god exist?

 

[Theunis]

If you would like to label those things which cannot be detected "God" then you may. I will simply say that there's no sense speculating on ideas of men which cannot be detected.

If there is a god, he allows baby cancer and mass murder but doesn't allow us to fly by flapping our wings or the ability for a child to escape a molester.

Yes so it appears. Yet we are our own greatest enemies.
Did you know that there was a cure for cancer in the 1930's and again in the 1990's but the AMA suppressed this knowledge. Consider the recent case of persecution of Dr Zubinski where they took to him to court (in Austin) in an endeavour to scrap him from the medical role because he was not using conventional cancer cures that were saving lives of people that conventional doctors/oncologist had declared incurable. Well after years of persecution they finally withdrew their court case.

Our wings don't have feathers but who needs them when we have aircraft that don't tire us
out

 

[serp777]

Well the way I see it none are totally mutually exclusive for they have many overlapping doctrines.
http://www.answers.com/Q/Are_religions_mutually_exclusive

Well they are mutually exclusive which is the reason why they're different religions in the first place. For example how can Muhammad be the perfect prophet if Jesus is the son of God? Surely the son of God is vastly superior to just a regular human. It makes no sense to follow Muhammad if you believe in Christianity and Islam equally. You would become a Christian because the son of God is obviously a more substantial prophet than a dude who came from a cave.

Furthermore the idea of reincarnation makes no sense with Christian dogma of going to heaven and hell and living an eternity of paradise or torture. I mean I can go on and on and on about the numerous core aspects of these faiths which simply aren't compatible. They're also very different in regards to morals, even between different sects of faiths. The whole reason there are so many religious sects is because certain religious interpretations aren't compatible. I mean the article from answers.com is just dead wrong, sorry. The claim that they aren't mutually exclusive is a significant claim that requires you to demonstrate that all religions are fundemantally the same. Do some religions have a few similarities? Yes they do. But i hardly see scientology as compatible with Islam. Its just no sensible.

 

[serp777]

No one seems to be interested or they get scared and vanish as a tiny dot over the horizon

Thus for about the fourth time - negate or refute this claim as found in the OT. - As you believe so it will be unto you or put another way - as you think so you are.

In modern times many are taught they are useless and they believe it to be so and thus never rise above their indoctrination. !

That's an argument from ignorance. I'm not required to disprove this claim from the old testament just like i'm not required to disprove the claim of Muhammad flying to heaven on a winged horse. But ill refute it logically anyways: if you believe that leprechauns are real will it also be unto you? How do you know which beliefs will be unto you and how do you distinguish being tricked by your brain vs actually getting evidence from God?

Finally, isn't religious indoctrination often responsible for making people feel like worthless maggots in the eyes of God? They are nothing compared to God. Regardless, whether or not people feel useless has nothing to do with the truth of reality or relates to my argument that give me the evidence is a solid point.

 

[cambridge79]

Well the way I see it none are totally mutually exclusive for they have many overlapping doctrines.
http://www.answers.com/Q/Are_religions_mutually_exclusive

The fact that part of them is similar doesn't cancel the fact that they are different in many other parts otherwise by definition they would be the same religion.

Is Jesus the son of god?
Christian say yes
Muslim and jew say no

Is Muhammad a prophet?
Muslim say yes
Christian and jew say no

Try to reconcile that if you can

 

[cambridge79]

Yes but maybe that other, undetectable being is just another manifestation of God. Why were we equipped with everything we need to cope with life.?

Geologists warn us of the dangers in areas where mudslides can occur but we ignore them and build houses in the areas we were warned about.
In our times we have large research facilities into infectious diseases, again we were given the mental capacity to cope.

These things and much more will the sons of man do. Why we now even raise some of the "dead".
Man is not here to be babied or spoon-fed.

Why are we placed on a planet that is unabitable for like 90% of his surface if nature was so loving and caring?

75% is the sea, full of water we can't even drink.
15% is desert, lakes mountains, ice caps, swamp all sorts of place we can't live in.

Its like me giving you a house with 50 rooms and telling you can't enter 49 of those 50 rooms or you will die

 

[Mister Emu]

There are however good odds that your particular interpretation of God is wrong, based on the vast number of interpretations and different religions that are mutually exclusive.

My claims are never so bold as to say I am perfectly correct in such a manner.

Well, it's why learned people like top scientists, philosophers, mathematicians and the like use mathematics and chemistry exactly the same but disagree on God.

That is an interesting conclusion.

But accurate.

Another bold claim.

Let me clarify "bold" in reference to claims. What I mean is that the claim exists outside the parameters of the claimants possible knowledge.

In other words, on the tree of reason, you've climbed out onto an unstable limb.

 

[outhouse]

What I mean is that the claim exists outside the parameters of the claimants possible knowledge.

Nope. And if there was credible evidence in support, god would be a hypothesis, not a religious concept defined differently depending on where you live.

In other words, on the tree of reason, you've climbed out onto an unstable limb.

Nope. I hold the high ground here.


No gods exist scientifically because there is no evidence.


Just so were clear here. [have this chat with my mom] I wish it was different, I wish I could put faith into the concept, I wish we could all have a nice little afterlife.

Unfortunately the anthropology shows man defined concepts based on previous mythological concepts that evolved into what most call god.

When two god are compiled by a political decision alone, I cannot place faith is said creation.

 

[Mister Emu]

Nope.

Yes, it is the nature of evidence that it exists independent of your knowledge or recognition of it.

Nope. I hold the high ground here.

Very high, and creeping further out. Was that a crack I just heard?

No gods exist scientifically because there is no evidence.

You're not going to slip this one past me. "... because there is no scientific evidence."

 

[Theunis]

That's an argument from ignorance. I'm not required to disprove this claim from the old testament just like i'm not required to disprove the claim of Muhammad flying to heaven on a winged horse. But ill refute it logically anyways: if you believe that leprechauns are real will it also be unto you? How do you know which beliefs will be unto you and how do you distinguish being tricked by your brain vs actually getting evidence from God?

Finally, isn't religious indoctrination often responsible for making people feel like worthless maggots in the eyes of God? They are nothing compared to God. Regardless, whether or not people feel useless has nothing to do with the truth of reality or relates to my argument that give me the evidence is a solid point.

Regretably you appear to have missed the psychology of the point I raised. Your thoughts and what you believe govern almost all aspects of your life. Indoctrination comes from the milieu or culture or sub-culture you live in and carries on through-out your life.. This is something that in our days spans all of mankind. Carlin, as quoted by Yochelson and Samenow (All Criminologists) says that thoughts become habit, habit becomes a way of life and thus you become as you think or believe.

Thus you see although it is a wisdom from the OT, in our times it has nothing to do with theism nor atheism. It is life.

 

[Theunis]

The fact that part of them is similar doesn't cancel the fact that they are different in many other parts otherwise by definition they would be the same religion.

Is Jesus the son of god?
Christian say yes
Muslim and jew say no

Is Muhammad a prophet?
Muslim say yes
Christian and jew say no

Try to reconcile that if you can

I merely stated that because of other overlapping doctrines that they are not TOTALLY exclusive

 

[Theunis]

Why are we placed on a planet that is unabitable for like 90% of his surface if nature was so loving and caring?

75% is the sea, full of water we can't even drink.
15% is desert, lakes mountains, ice caps, swamp all sorts of place we can't live in.

Its like me giving you a house with 50 rooms and telling you can't enter 49 of those 50 rooms or you will die

Perhaps you should address these questions to that God known as Evolution for I as most humans do not know even 1% of the hows and wherefores for us being here or for us even existing.

So far this itty bitty living space has been more than enough (I think)

Added as an edit:
We can catch the fishies in the ocean and eat them and there are some yummy seeweeds. \
AND
sunken treasure to explore and pretty fish to observe,
But don't forget your shock-stick in case of sharks
AND
Dragons do in fact exist - they breathe water but not smoke and fire
We can distill the oceans waters and make the desert bloom
Those other places - are they not perhaps for intrepid discoverers and adrenaline freaks?

Okay, Okay I submit the additions may be a bit frivolous.
BUT
Hey the optimist sees the doughnut while the pessimist only sees the hole.

 

[Theunis]

If there is a god, he allows baby cancer....

Sorry I got the doctors name wrong - here is a 2014 link - it is Dr S Burzynski -
https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-texas-medical-board-vs-stanislaw-burzynski-2014-edition/

They finally dropped their case to scrap him from the AMA medical roll
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/01/19/cancer-doctor-burzynski.aspx

 

[cambridge79]

I merely stated that because of other overlapping doctrines that they are not TOTALLY exclusive

They may not be TOTALLY DIFFERENT but even if parts of them overlap they still remain totally exclusive simply because they claim to derive ALL their authority and wisdom from thir knowledge of god.
When that true god is proven wrong their house of cards falls down.

even if ( i'm just throwing a number here ) 70% of christianity and islam preachings overlap just to pick two religions among the others, if for example jesus was to be proved the true son of god and muhammad to be proved an imposter, the 100% of islam would collapse because the Quran wich is the corner stone of islam would become a book with no meaning since it's written by a false prophet.
you would not drop only 30% of it, stick to the 70% wich is still good and still be a muslim.
You would stop being a muslim and choose between becoming a christian or something else.
at least if one is honest in his search for god.

 

[Theunis]

They may not be TOTALLY DIFFERENT but even if parts of them overlap they still remain totally exclusive simply because they claim to derive ALL their authority and wisdom from thir knowledge of god.
When that true god is proven wrong their house of cards falls down.

even if ( i'm just throwing a number here ) 70% of christianity and islam preachings overlap just to pick two religions among the others, if for example jesus was to be proved the true son of god and muhammad to be proved an imposter, the 100% of islam would collapse because the Quran wich is the corner stone of islam would become a book with no meaning since it's written by a false prophet.
you would not drop only 30% of it, stick to the 70% wich is still good and still be a muslim.
You would stop being a muslim and choose between becoming a christian or something else.
at least if one is honest in his search for god.

I have been thinking why I do not seem to make my point clear and on contemplation and introspection I realized what my problem was.
Being what I am and as all realities is my reality, I now see that those in their realities do not see me as being part of their reality and thus based on their major thoughts of my god is not your god etc these exclusions exists
. Yet as I do not and cannot exclude them from my reality which encompasses all realities for me it cannot nor will ever be a mutual exclusion for to exclude anyone would be to exclude myself and all peoples from humanity.

Remember I also say all is one. I embrace the Universe. I am at peace with all religions and non-religions. I live somewhere beyond the pettiness of human thoughts. I even try to walk in beauty

I really do understand and appreciate your views on the matter
Peace be yours