Is there anything more disgusting than God?

[Kenny]

I don't discount the testimonies, I just doubt NT stories. I don't think there would be as many converts if it weren't for those marvelous stories. I don't believe, however, God will change just because of new or improved fairy tales.

then again, with the sudden spread of the Gospel, they weren't fairy tales.

I believed and found out that miracles aren't fairy tales. When I didn't believe, I didn't see one.

 

[Ben Avraham]

Since the NT scriptures were almost ALL Jewish writers and therefore there is no plagiarism, let me see: Micah 5:2 “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans[a] of Judah out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times.” Jewish Matt 2:3 When King Herod heard this he was disturbed, and all Jerusalem with him.4 When he had called together all the people’s chief priests and teachers of the law, he asked them where the Messiah was to be born. 5 “In Bethlehem in Judea,” they replied, “for this is what the prophet has written Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you[a] a sign: The virgin[b] will conceive and give birth to a son, and[c] will call him Immanuel. Jewish Matt 1:23 “The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel”[a] (which means “God with us”) Hosea 11:1“When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son Jewish Matt 2:14 So he got up, took the child and his mother during the night and left for Egypt,15 where he stayed until the death of Herod. And so was fulfilled what the Lord had saidthrough the prophet: “Out of Egypt I called my son. How many do you want? Incidentally to complete just 9 makes it a statistical impossibility but he fulfilled more than 40.

Not a single Jew wrote a single page of the NT. They were all Hellenists former disciples of Paul. A Jew
would not write against his own Faith aka Judaism and his own gospel aka the Tanach. Micah 5:1 JPS
speaks of one who would become a ruler over the Land of Israel. Did Jesus ever become a ruler over the State of Israel? No he didn't. That's enough to invalidate your claim that Micah 5:1 could be a reference to Jesus. Now, regarding the virgin in Isaiah 7:14 who conceived a son is a reference to the fall of Israel at the hands of Assyria according to Amos 5:2. The virgin points to Israel and the son to Judah whom Isaiah identifies as Immanuel in Isaiah 8:8. And for the son called from Egypt is a reference to the Exodus of Israel from Egypt if you read Exodus 4:22,23. "Israel is My Son," said the Lord. Let My son go that he may serve Me." That's when the Lord, from Egypt called His son. (Hosea 11:1)

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

All right EH, there are two options; you either caused yourself to exist or someone else who preceded you did that job for you. For the first option, to have caused yourself to exist, you had to exist to have done it. If you already existed, you had no further need to still cause yourself to exist. If you did not exist, how could you have caused yourself to exist if you were not there? Now, for the second option, someone else caused yourself to exist. Of course, your parents; and your parents, their parents; and their parents... Well, you must have figured by now that we are talking about the genetic concept of Causality as we analogically walk back to the very first couple of parents who, again, according to Logic, were caused to exist by the Primal Cause. Now, I give myself a break here to give you the chance to tell me what you think the Primal Cause is. Go ahead sir, for I am all ears.

No, this is the wrong thread for that argument. In any case, I have little truck with those that say "nothing can exist without out cause," and then go right ahead and invent something that breaks that rule.

 

[Ben Avraham]

No, this is the wrong thread for that argument. In any case, I have little truck with those that say "nothing can exist without out cause," and then go right ahead and invent something that breaks that rule.

Well, I was aware of that kind of no-answer. I thought you were a little more serious than the others. And regarding being the wrong thread for that argument, what do you mean? I am in the forum entitled "General Religious Debate." If you ask me, rather to an atheist to discuss the non-existence of God in a religious forum would be the wrong place. Anyway, you did not have a word for an answer to all my questions. But I am not surprised. You are not the first. I have never got a single reply from an atheist.

 

[Repox]

then again, with the sudden spread of the Gospel, they weren't fairy tales.

I believed and found out that miracles aren't fairy tales. When I didn't believe, I didn't see one.

I call them fairy tales because they are fabrications about Jesus. If you do the research, you'll find after Jesus was murdered there was the Jesus movement. For about fifty years, the movement didn't say Jesus was the son of God and it didn't propose salvation based on accepting Jesus as a sacrificial lamb. My point is if Jesus was the son of God why did it take so long for them state it? The reason is the Jesus movement people made it up. It is all there in historical records. If you want an excellent reference, here it is: The Lost Gospel Q by Burton L. Mack. I also admit to having dreams about the NT. In one dream, on a dirt road, two Roman soldiers stood over Jesus on his knees. One soldier was beating Jesus in the face with his fists as the other soldier looked on. In the scene, there were no other people, just a dirt road. The dream makes sense. If you do historical research, you'll find the Roman Emperor Tiberius had declared himself to be a god, he was disturbed by Jesus claim of divinity. There is more to the story, but those are the essential facts. Jesus movement leaders made up lies to promote a new religion, which became fairy tale Christianity. Historical facts can be injurious to fairy tale stories.

If you are looking for an accurate story about Jesus, read Rev. 11 about the two witnesses (they are the duality of God).

If you insist on the same old Jesus the son of God fairy tale story, lets skip our discussion. It's a waste of time, there is no historical evidence.

 

[Kenny]

I call them fairy tales because they are fabrications about Jesus.

Of course, I will disagree with that

If you do the research, you'll find after Jesus was murdered there was the Jesus movement. For about fifty years, the movement didn't say Jesus was the son of God and it didn't propose salvation based on accepting Jesus as a sacrificial lamb.

My point is if Jesus was the son of God why did it take so long for them state it?
[/QUOTE]
Not for the reason that you state.

1) When then first started, their mission wasn't "OK, now. We have to write down everything that we learned and remember". Their mission was to spread the Gospel.

2) It wasn't 50 years. Assuming that Jesus died somewhere around 33+ AD - the first book of the Gospels to be written was either Mark or Matthew (66-67AD) That's just 33 years after the death of Jesus. Most of the Epistles were written even before that. AFTER, there was fables being created, they understood that they had to write things down so as to preserve truth. As Luke said,
1 Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilledamong us,
2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word.
3 With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus,
4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.

So Son of God was proposed throughout the preaching of the Gospel.

The reason is the Jesus movement people made it up. It is all there in historical records. If you want an excellent reference, here it is: The Lost Gospel Q by Burton L. Mack.

"When considering the possibility of a Q gospel, it is important to remember that no evidence whatsoever has ever been found for the existence of a Q gospel. Not even a single manuscript fragment of Q has ever been found." -- It is basically a theory the TODAY'S progressive thinkers are proposing.

I also admit to having dreams about the NT. In one dream, on a dirt road, two Roman soldiers stood over Jesus on his knees. One soldier was beating Jesus in the face with his fists as the other soldier looked on. In the scene, there were no other people, just a dirt road. The dream makes sense. If you do historical research, you'll find the Roman Emperor Tiberius had declared himself to be a god, he was disturbed by Jesus claim of divinity. There is more to the story, but those are the essential facts. Jesus movement leaders made up lies to promote a new religion, which became fairy tale Christianity. Historical facts sometimes can become injurious to fairy tale stories.

Dreams can be interpreted - I'm not sure that the message means what you say.

If you are looking for an accurate story about Jesus, read Rev. 11 about the two witnesses (they are the duality of God).

If you want to insist on the same old Jesus the son of God saves everyone story, lets skip our discussion. It's a waste of time.

Then it is a waste of time. The two witnesses have nothing to do with duality of God.

 

[Repox]

Of course, I will disagree with that

If you do the research, you'll find after Jesus was murdered there was the Jesus movement. For about fifty years, the movement didn't say Jesus was the son of God and it didn't propose salvation based on accepting Jesus as a sacrificial lamb.

My point is if Jesus was the son of God why did it take so long for them state it?

Not for the reason that you state.

1) When then first started, their mission wasn't "OK, now. We have to write down everything that we learned and remember". Their mission was to spread the Gospel.

2) It wasn't 50 years. Assuming that Jesus died somewhere around 33+ AD - the first book of the Gospels to be written was either Mark or Matthew (66-67AD) That's just 33 years after the death of Jesus. Most of the Epistles were written even before that. AFTER, there was fables being created, they understood that they had to write things down so as to preserve truth. As Luke said,
1 Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilledamong us,
2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word.
3 With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus,
4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.

So Son of God was proposed throughout the preaching of the Gospel.



"When considering the possibility of a Q gospel, it is important to remember that no evidence whatsoever has ever been found for the existence of a Q gospel. Not even a single manuscript fragment of Q has ever been found." -- It is basically a theory the TODAY'S progressive thinkers are proposing.


Dreams can be interpreted - I'm not sure that the message means what you say.

Then it is a waste of time. The two witnesses have nothing to do with duality of God.[/QUOTE]

Most people lie, some more than others. We have no way of knowing what early Christians said was the truth. For this reason, we need scholarship to verify stories by examining historical documentation. Evidence strongly supports the idea that early church leaders developed amazing stories to promote a religious agenda. I have found more confirmation of OT stories than NT stories. I am a scholar, I know how to do research. I have found Christians to be poor scholars, they make a lot of declarations without confirmation.


It was not 33 years after the death of Jesus.

The New Testament Gospels were written between A.D. 65 and 95, though scholars have no way of knowing exactly who the books' authors were.

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/lostgospel/timeline_04.html

How do you know Rev. 11 has nothing to do with the duality of God? Do you even believe in the duality of God? There is no way of verifying it. Much of what anyone proposes about events or activities for the long ago period cannot be confirmed.

As for The Gospel Q, most highly educated scholars give it credibility, those with strong biases refuse to do any research.

It is the way of the Christian world, they seem to believe every word written by clerics. It suggest clerics are like gods, they have perfect insight. It is interesting, Jews don't believe Jesus stories. I think they are among the most intelligent people on the planet. They weren't taken in by phony stories. No one back then, including Jews, believed Jesus was God. If God came back again, it would be the same. Humans are to arrogant to believe another human could be superior to them. The Jesus son of God story took off because men back then identified with a human deity, the man Jesus was like them, or what they would like to be.

 

[Valerian]

I want to do God's will and I pray that I do God's will and find it thoroughly disgusting that God would remain silent and refuse to let me know His will. More than anything I want to know what God wants me to do and He just remains silent and refuses to let me know. It is despicable that God would refuse to reveal his will to a sincere seeker!

I just pray and pray that God would give me the Holy Spirit like he said he would and enlighten me so that I serve him and be obedient to everything he desires, but He insists on being unreasonable, dishonest, and completely the opposite of what He claims he is. God makes me nauseous with all his lies! So many people could do His will but God insisted on leaving them confused and refusing to speak up. It thoroughly disgusts me every time I think of how God has treated His people! God is absolutely responsible for how sick, fowl, confused, and gruesome our world is.

I find God to be completely nauseating! He ruined countless lives when he chose to hide himself, hide the truth, and leave people without understanding and enlightenment. When was the last time God left you with a clear message? I just want to do God's will, nothing more, and God is so shockingly revolting he refuses to let a genuine seeker have understanding. How could you Lord?!? You make me sick!

Sorry, I just need to vent. God's chronic silence and hiding himself is totally sickening don't you think?

Maybe His will is for you to just keep on asking for it?

My response (not dogma of course) is God remains ostensibly silent because of sin. The same reason many innocent people die in war is because of the great amount of sin of mankind. Those dead and wounded suffered more than just not knowing what God wants of us.

I think there is enough evidence and reasons to be quite sure God does exist. That’s enough for me not to ignore Him.
But your disgust is sincere.

 

[Ben Avraham]

Is There Anything More Disgusting than god?

Oh! Now, I understand what the OP means. So, my answer is NO. There is nothing more disgusting that a pagan god. They have legs but can't walk, they have mouth but can't speak or eat, they have eyes but can't see, they have ears but can't hear, but they have a lot of followers who have become spiritually like them.

 

[Kenny]

It was not 33 years after the death of Jesus.

The New Testament Gospels were written between A.D. 65 and 95, though scholars have no way of knowing exactly who the books' authors were.

Time Line of Early Christianity--The Lost Gospel of Judas--National Geographic

65AD would be 32 years after the death of Christ
National Geographic is NOT a Theological seminary.
And it is common knowledge that since none of the letters mentioned the destruction of Jerusalem (70AD), it is a better bet I am right.

How do you know Rev. 11 has nothing to do with the duality of God? Do you even believe in the duality of God? There is no way of verifying it. Much of what anyone proposes about events or activities for the long ago period cannot be confirmed.

Since it doesn't really tell us who they were, you can make it anything you want.
The consensus is that they are Enoch and Elijah.
And you would first have to give me your definition of duality.

As for The Gospel Q, most highly educated scholars give it credibility, those with strong biases refuse to do any research.

Au contraire. Most with the bias of "scripture is a myth" holds on the theory of a Gospel Q. But, since science deals with evidence and there is not ONE manuscript, paragraph, sentence with the Gospel Q, it is fake news.

It is the way of the Christian world, they seem to believe every word written by clerics. It suggest clerics are like gods, they have perfect insight. It is interesting, Jews don't believe Jesus stories. I think they are among the most intelligent people on the planet. They weren't taken in by phony stories. No one back then, including Jews, believed Jesus was God. If God came back again, it would be the same. Humans are to arrogant to believe another human could be superior to them. The Jesus son of God story took off because men back then identified with a human deity, the man Jesus was like them, or what they would like to be.

hmmm... Except for Luke and perhaps Acts, they were ALL written by Jews and before 70AD, with the exception of some of the Epistles.

 

[Repox]

65AD would be 32 years after the death of Christ
National Geographic is NOT a Theological seminary.
And it is common knowledge that since none of the letters mentioned the destruction of Jerusalem (70AD), it is a better bet I am right.


Since it doesn't really tell us who they were, you can make it anything you want.
The consensus is that they are Enoch and Elijah.
And you would first have to give me your definition of duality.


Au contraire. Most with the bias of "scripture is a myth" holds on the theory of a Gospel Q. But, since science deals with evidence and there is not ONE manuscript, paragraph, sentence with the Gospel Q, it is fake news.

hmmm... Except for Luke and perhaps Acts, they were ALL written by Jews and before 70AD, with the exception of some of the Epistles.

65AD would be 32 years after the death of Christ
National Geographic is NOT a Theological seminary.
And it is common knowledge that since none of the letters mentioned the destruction of Jerusalem (70AD), it is a better bet I am right.


Since it doesn't really tell us who they were, you can make it anything you want.
The consensus is that they are Enoch and Elijah.
And you would first have to give me your definition of duality.


Au contraire. Most with the bias of "scripture is a myth" holds on the theory of a Gospel Q. But, since science deals with evidence and there is not ONE manuscript, paragraph, sentence with the Gospel Q, it is fake news.

hmmm... Except for Luke and perhaps Acts, they were ALL written by Jews and before 70AD, with the exception of some of the Epistles.

65AD would be 32 years after the death of Christ
National Geographic is NOT a Theological seminary.
And it is common knowledge that since none of the letters mentioned the destruction of Jerusalem (70AD), it is a better bet I am right.


Since it doesn't really tell us who they were, you can make it anything you want.
The consensus is that they are Enoch and Elijah.
And you would first have to give me your definition of duality.


Au contraire. Most with the bias of "scripture is a myth" holds on the theory of a Gospel Q. But, since science deals with evidence and there is not ONE manuscript, paragraph, sentence with the Gospel Q, it is fake news.

hmmm... Except for Luke and perhaps Acts, they were ALL written by Jews and before 70AD, with the exception of some of the Epistles.

There are highly esteemed scholars who subscribe to the Gospel Q theory. Applying my research skills, I find it extremely reliable. The NT authors had gospels to copy from, they didn't know enough about what had happened to rely on rumors, they weren't eye witnesses. Also discovered in the NT gospels are Jesus sayings from The Gospel of Thomas. Sorry, I find no evidence for the Christian Saint theory. Humans lie, some lie more than others.

Based on your description of Gospel Q, you don't know what it is. It was found in three NT gospels, they are Jesus sayings which are all the same or similar. The evidence is indisputable. It is easy to understand the gospel was missing because church leaders destroyed other gospels, like what Nazis did when they burned books.

As for Rev. 11, I said there is no evidence for the idea, neither do you have evidence for the two witnesses not being the duality of God. Actually, no Christian, including yourself, believes God is a duality. There is no son of God, which is why I am not a Christian. Christians don't do logic. How can God be both a Trinity and eternal? Why would God have a son when He has angels? I know, God gave us brains but we aren't expected to use them, ha. ha.

It is an interesting phenomena of religion. Clerics don't seem to be satisfied with the OT Lord. No matter what God (Lord) does, he will be criticized. There are numerous stories in the OT about God's chosen people disapproving of this or that about God. It is a serious issue. I had a dream about the OT in which God said, "They didn't obey my commandments, not one single commandment." It has profound implications for salvation. In heaven, when Satan became independent of God he was expelled. As for humans, they may never go to heaven. If they do, they won't last long. God requires obedience. In heaven, there is God and surrounding angels. There are no separate places for wondering folks.

I had another dream about the OT. God said, "It happened, but not that way." How profound! Because they didn't obey God's commandments, you wouldn't expect them to be accurate in writing about it. Nevertheless. the OT is the only record we have. The reason why I get along with God is I have never, and will never, question anything about Him. What I know is depressing for humankind, but I don't question it. Oh, I just thought of what you might say. Because it doesn't fit with the wonderful salvation story it must be false. Sorry, I don't believe the "salvation story." It must be the biggest lie ever. It is not that easy to get into heaven. In my dreams, I have seen no humans in heaven. Don't bother to respond, it will only get dumb. No one wants to know the truth about God, angels, Satan, paradise or the Bible. It is just not the way religion wants it!

 

[Kenny]

There are highly esteemed scholars who subscribe to the Gospel Q theory.

Depends on whose camp calls them esteemed. There are those who call them ignorant who are trying to re-write history.

Based on your description of Gospel Q, you don't know what it is. It was found in three NT gospels, they are Jesus sayings which are all the same or similar. The evidence is indisputable. It is easy to understand the gospel was missing because church leaders destroyed other gospels, like what Nazis did when they burned books.

I do know. And as you can see... it is nothing but a supposition. No written evidence, No fragments to confirm the position. No scientific evidence to support it. Fake news.

As for Rev. 11, I said there is no evidence for the idea, neither do you have evidence for the two witnesses not being the duality of God.

I believe that is what I said.

There is no son of God, which is why I am not a Christian.

There IS a son of God (by reference of what happened) and it is certainly your prerogative no to be a Christian.

Christians don't do logic.

That is illogical

How can God be both a Trinity and eternal? Why would God have a son when He has angels? I know, God gave us brains but we aren't expected to use them,

FINALLY, some good questions. Maybe NOW we can use our brains.

First, humans are a trinity(spirit, soul and body) and we are also eternal (the difference being that we have a beginning whereas God doesn't) so it is obvious we can be both a trinity and eternal

Second. In the beginning man was created above the angels. In their fallen bankrupt state, they fell bellow the angels.

When a corporation is in bankruptcy, it takes more than just a solvent corporation to be able to free it. It HAS to be big enough to ABSORB the debt of the bankrupt corporation and still be solvent.

Angels, having been created below mankind, don't have the capacity to redeem bankrupt humanity and still be solvent--much less one angel. The only person greater than humanity that can absorb humanity's bankruptcy and remain solvent is God.

Last. God created the parameters for having authority in the earth. In Genesis 1 (and elsewhere) it is said that God gave the authority of the earth to mankind. To operate legally in this earth with authority, you must be born as a human. God always worked through man (according to scripture) by covenant with mankind.

So, to legally operate and redeem mankind He had to create a body by which The Word could inhabit and legally come, through a woman, and redeem man.

He is called the second Adam because those are the two men that were created without sperm and egg. He is called the Son of God because it is a designation for having come through a birth canal and/or was resurrected from the dead.

There's more, of course, but it would be too long.

 

[Repox]

Depends on whose camp calls them esteemed. There are those who call them ignorant who are trying to re-write history.


I do know. And as you can see... it is nothing but a supposition. No written evidence, No fragments to confirm the position. No scientific evidence to support it. Fake news.


I believe that is what I said.

There IS a son of God (by reference of what happened) and it is certainly your prerogative no to be a Christian.

That is illogical


FINALLY, some good questions. Maybe NOW we can use our brains.

First, humans are a trinity(spirit, soul and body) and we are also eternal (the difference being that we have a beginning whereas God doesn't) so it is obvious we can be both a trinity and eternal

Second. In the beginning man was created above the angels. In their fallen bankrupt state, they fell bellow the angels.

When a corporation is in bankruptcy, it takes more than just a solvent corporation to be able to free it. It HAS to be big enough to ABSORB the debt of the bankrupt corporation and still be solvent.

Angels, having been created below mankind, don't have the capacity to redeem bankrupt humanity and still be solvent--much less one angel. The only person greater than humanity that can absorb humanity's bankruptcy and remain solvent is God.

Last. God created the parameters for having authority in the earth. In Genesis 1 (and elsewhere) it is said that God gave the authority of the earth to mankind. To operate legally in this earth with authority, you must be born as a human. God always worked through man (according to scripture) by covenant with mankind.

So, to legally operate and redeem mankind He had to create a body by which The Word could inhabit and legally come, through a woman, and redeem man.

He is called the second Adam because those are the two men that were created without sperm and egg. He is called the Son of God because it is a designation for having come through a birth canal and/or was resurrected from the dead.

There's more, of course, but it would be too long.

There is no Trinity, it was invented by church leaders to promote Christianity. It is entirely illogical. It is not possible for humans to be eternal (dictionary definition). They may be immortal, but not eternal. Only God is eternal. Man was not created above the angels. Before humans, there were angels in heaven. Paul was in error, almost everything he wrote is false. He believed in the son of God, a false idea. Wow, angels are below us. They must be our servants. What a ridiculous idea, it speaks to human arrogance. Oh, I see, earth is a sacred trust for humans. I supposed it is going well with nuclear weapons, wars, locks on the doors, criminals filling up prisons, people learning skills like lying, steeling, raping, murdering, etc. Now, we have suicide bombers. Wow, what a wonderful world for the human trust account. Sometimes, facts are a terrible thing.

There was no Adam and Eve in paradise. It is a myth. Paradise happened about 65 million years ago during the Dinosaur era.

Humans have done a marvelous job to destroy nature and the planet.

 

[Bird123]

I want to do God's will and I pray that I do God's will and find it thoroughly disgusting that God would remain silent and refuse to let me know His will. More than anything I want to know what God wants me to do and He just remains silent and refuses to let me know. It is despicable that God would refuse to reveal his will to a sincere seeker!

I just pray and pray that God would give me the Holy Spirit like he said he would and enlighten me so that I serve him and be obedient to everything he desires, but He insists on being unreasonable, dishonest, and completely the opposite of what He claims he is. God makes me nauseous with all his lies! So many people could do His will but God insisted on leaving them confused and refusing to speak up. It thoroughly disgusts me every time I think of how God has treated His people! God is absolutely responsible for how sick, fowl, confused, and gruesome our world is.

I find God to be completely nauseating! He ruined countless lives when he chose to hide himself, hide the truth, and leave people without understanding and enlightenment. When was the last time God left you with a clear message? I just want to do God's will, nothing more, and God is so shockingly revolting he refuses to let a genuine seeker have understanding. How could you Lord?!? You make me sick!

Sorry, I just need to vent. God's chronic silence and hiding himself is totally sickening don't you think?

As I see it, Religion has corrupted your mind and your thinking.

It is so easy. BE WHO YOU MUST! IT'S A PART OF THE PLAN!

Free your mind! Free yourself!


As I see it. God is silent so as not to intimidate your choices. All the secrets of the universe stare us in the face. That's in everything not just God. Perhaps, it's all a test of intelligence. What can you Discover now that you are free???

 

[Kenny]

There is no Trinity, it was invented by church leaders to promote Christianity. It is entirely illogical. It is not possible for humans to be eternal (dictionary definition). They may be immortal, but not eternal. Only God is eternal. Man was not created above the angels. Before humans, there were angels in heaven. Paul was in error, almost everything he wrote is false. He believed in the son of God, a false idea. Wow, angels are below us. They must be our servants. What a ridiculous idea, it speaks to human arrogance. Oh, I see, earth is a sacred trust for humans. I supposed it is going well with nuclear weapons, wars, locks on the doors, criminals filling up prisons, people learning skills like lying, steeling, raping, murdering, etc. Now, we have suicide bombers. Wow, what a wonderful world for the human trust account. Sometimes, facts are a terrible thing.

There was no Adam and Eve in paradise. It is a myth. Paradise happened about 65 million years ago during the Dinosaur era.

Humans have done a marvelous job to destroy nature and the planet.

And yet scriptures say something totally different. I think I will stick to scripture as it has produced life.

 

[Ben Avraham]

As I see it, Religion has corrupted your mind and your thinking.
It is so easy. BE WHO YOU MUST! IT'S A PART OF THE PLAN! Free your mind! Free yourself! As I see it. God is silent so as not to intimidate your choices. All the secrets of the universe stare us in the face. That's in everything not just God. Perhaps, it's all a test of intelligence. What can you Discover now that you are free???

The Law. As long as we live according to the Law, we can enjoy freedom.

 

[Bird123]

The Law. As long as we live according to the Law, we can enjoy freedom.

One is free to choose regardless of laws. On the other hand, every choice has consequences.

 

[Repox]

And yet scriptures say something totally different. I think I will stick to scripture as it has produced life.

If scripture doesn't reflect reality, what do you have? Which supports my idea of a fairy land Christianity. If an atomic bomb destroys many thousands of people are we to ignore the horrible event because scriptures says God protects and favors humans? The denial of reality by Bible verses is confirmed by a dream. Concerning OT times, a voice said, "It happened, but not that way." By inclination and practice, humans are not very honest. Children and young adults have to be taught to be honest, it doesn't come naturally.

 

[Ben Avraham]

One is free to choose regardless of laws. On the other hand, every choice has consequences.

I know about that! Any one can choose even not to acknowledge the Law at all. But since we live in a State of Law, we must pay for the consequences thereof.

 

[Bird123]

I know about that! Any one can choose even not to acknowledge the Law at all. But since we live in a State of Law, we must pay for the consequences thereof.

Let me give you something to really Think about. As I see it, there will be no laws when one gets to God's world. Do you know why? Laws will be obsolete and no longer needed. Given enough knowledge and understanding, our intelligence will make evil no longer a viable choice. After all, evil is not an intelligent choice.