Is there anything more disgusting than God?

[Geoff-Allen]

Interesting thread!

If I may presume 2 speak 4 God ...

His will and your deepest desires are the same - if you truly love your fellow beings then you will be happy.

That's the message of nearly all religions if you really look at it.

It's not ALWAYS easy to do - takes a very disciplined mind to not indulge in judgement or anger or ill-will ...

Best wishes!

 

[Repox]

Not prior gospels but rather pseudo-gospels.


Not if they are believers.

On the contrary, it is not only fulfilling the scriptures but it is the very crux of the Gospel. The Lamb of God that was slain from the foundation of the world.


Yes, humans are fallen and thus need a Savior. I'm not sure what propaganda you are referring to but one thing I know. We follow Jesus realizing that everyone else is in need of the same Savior.

They aren't pseudo-gospels, they have been discovered and are real. After the church selected the four gospels in the fourth century, church leaders attempted to destroy all other gospels, but they didn't succeed. The NT gospels are fairy tale stories, they contain little truth about what really happened. As an example, they claim Jesus was crucified, but there is no historical documentation of such an event. Jesus was brutally murdered by roman soldiers. There is more to the false stories about Jesus, but people would rather believe in fairy tales.

The salvation story is false. Just believe and you'll be saved! No wonder Christianity is popular.

It would be a huge shock for everyone if they knew there is no salvation.

 

[Kenny]

They aren't pseudo-gospels, they have been discovered and are real. After the church selected the four gospels in the fourth century, church leaders attempted to destroy all other gospels, but they didn't succeed. The NT gospels are fairy tale stories, they contain little truth about what really happened. As an example, they claim Jesus was crucified, but there is no historical documentation of such an event. Jesus was brutally murdered by roman soldiers. There is more to the false stories about Jesus, but people would rather believe in fairy tales.

The salvation story is false. Just believe and you'll be saved! No wonder Christianity is popular.

It would be a huge shock for everyone if they knew there is no salvation.

I disagree... Luke understood that erroneous stories were being made as did those who wrote the other Gospels. The record is also in harmony with the Old Testament.

Salvation story is true... and, yes, the grace of Christ in Christianity does become popular. Grace is what the world needs. Don't you?

 

[godnotgod]

How would Zen see and handle your dilemma?

Firstly, Zen would ask: 'Who is it that is asking God for an answer'. On its surface, this may sound rather silly, but if you really look, you will find that there is no such questioner. This provides some of the solution, but it won't be easy. The fictional self hangs on tight. It doesn't want to die or to be found out. Secondly, That which you are asking the question of is actually you. This is not to say that God is not real, but rather that you are projecting an external image of God onto some idea of 'other', and that the something you seek is not how you imagine it to be. Thirdly, in the final analysis, you will find that what you seek is actually yourself; that you are the object of your seeking; that you are none other than the divine nature itself, and when I say that, I do not mean the 'you' or 'I' that is the ego, or the self; I mean a presence beyond the self. Zennists call this presence 'Big Mind', but in order for it to come into play, the constant and incessant chatter of the thinking mind, called 'monkey mind', must first be subdued. This monkey mind is the one which keeps asking an external image questions and expecting an answer. Big Mind is intuitive, so you have to pay attention, not via more thinking, but via simple awareness of what is. Once you begin to get a clearer idea of your true nature, seeing into the nature of things will show you the way, and will provide answers which really were there all along. The great yogi, Patanjali, said: 'Yoga (divine union) is the cessation of all of the activities of the mind'. Quiet the mind, and allow yourself to merge with the greater presence that is always at hand. Stop making God an object to which you pose questions as a subject. God is giving you the answer you seek plain as day, but you are not looking in the right place.

 

[Repox]

I disagree... Luke understood that erroneous stories were being made as did those who wrote the other Gospels. The record is also in harmony with the Old Testament.

Salvation story is true... and, yes, the grace of Christ in Christianity does become popular. Grace is what the world needs. Don't you?

I don't mean to be such a naysayer, but I don't find the son of God in the OT. You'll not find a single literal interpretation to the "son of God." I believe Jesus was the OT lord, not the son of God. If you research prior gospels, the ones preceding the NT gospels, you'll not find any references to the son of God, it is all about Jesus the wise man or sage. Christian scholars have found numerous figurative interpretations to the son of God, but, of course, in any large book one can find numerous figurative interpretations to mean almost anything. It is interesting, for those figurative interpretations found in the OT, most of them apply to Jews, not Christians.

I believe the world needs a lot, including salvation. However, the truth may not be what people want or expect. It is possible for there to be no salvation. It has to do with obeying God's Commandments.

 

[Ben Avraham]

Is There anything More Disgusting than God?

Why! Perhaps you don't know that HaShem has nothing to do with the disgusting things acted by man. HaShem has granted man with Freewill. So, man is responsible for his own disgusting things.

 

[Kenny]

I don't mean to be such a naysayer, but I don't find the son of God in the OT. You'll not find a single literal interpretation to the "son of God." I believe Jesus was the OT lord, not the son of God. If you research prior gospels, the ones preceding the NT gospels, you'll not find any references to the son of God, it is all about Jesus the wise man or sage. Christian scholars have found numerous figurative interpretations to the son of God, but, of course, in any large book one can find numerous figurative interpretations to mean almost anything. It is interesting, for those figurative interpretations found in the OT, most of them apply to Jews, not Christians.

I believe the world needs a lot, including salvation. However, the truth may not be what people want or expect. It is possible for there to be no salvation. It has to do with obeying God's Commandments.

Then that would beg the question that Jesus inquired of the sages of his time:

"How say they that Christ is David's son? And David himself says in the book of Psalms, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit on my right hand, until I make your enemies you footstool,. David therefore calls him Lord, how is he then his son?

One also has other problems:

“Come, O Zion! Escape, you who live in the Daughter of Babylon! For this is what Yahweh of hosts says: ‘After He has honored Me and has sent Meagainst the nations that have plundered you—for whoever touches you touches the apple of His eye- I will surely raise My hand against them so that their slaves will plunder them. Then you will know that Yahweh of hostshas sent Me. Shout and be glad, O Daughter of Zion. For I am coming, and I will live among you,’ declares Yahweh. Many nations will be joined with Yahweh in that day and will become My people. I will live among you and you will know that Yahweh of hosts has sent Me to you. Yahweh will inherit Judah as his portion in the holy land and will again choose Jerusalem. Be still before Yahweh, all mankind, because he has roused himself from his holy dwelling.’” Zechariah 2:7-11

Come near me and listen to this: From the first announcement I have not spoken in secret; from the time it came to be I have been there. And now the Lord Yahweh has sent Me, with his Spirit. This is what Yahweh says — your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: ‘I am Yahweh your God, who teaches you what is best for you, who directs you in the way you should go.’” Isaiah 48:11b-17

Both have the Godhead.

Then it speaks of Emmanuel, God with us, as being born.

 

[Reggie Miller]

I want to do God's will and I pray that I do God's will and find it thoroughly disgusting that God would remain silent and refuse to let me know His will. More than anything I want to know what God wants me to do and He just remains silent and refuses to let me know. It is despicable that God would refuse to reveal his will to a sincere seeker!

I just pray and pray that God would give me the Holy Spirit like he said he would and enlighten me so that I serve him and be obedient to everything he desires, but He insists on being unreasonable, dishonest, and completely the opposite of what He claims he is. God makes me nauseous with all his lies! So many people could do His will but God insisted on leaving them confused and refusing to speak up. It thoroughly disgusts me every time I think of how God has treated His people! God is absolutely responsible for how sick, fowl, confused, and gruesome our world is.

I find God to be completely nauseating! He ruined countless lives when he chose to hide himself, hide the truth, and leave people without understanding and enlightenment. When was the last time God left you with a clear message? I just want to do God's will, nothing more, and God is so shockingly revolting he refuses to let a genuine seeker have understanding. How could you Lord?!? You make me sick!

Sorry, I just need to vent. God's chronic silence and hiding himself is totally sickening don't you think?

Sometimes we need to vent. Sometimes we need to suffer for the perfection of our faith, as Peter wrote. I pray that you will be comforted.

 

[Repox]

Then that would beg the question that Jesus inquired of the sages of his time:

"How say they that Christ is David's son? And David himself says in the book of Psalms, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit on my right hand, until I make your enemies you footstool,. David therefore calls him Lord, how is he then his son?

One also has other problems:

“Come, O Zion! Escape, you who live in the Daughter of Babylon! For this is what Yahweh of hosts says: ‘After He has honored Me and has sent Meagainst the nations that have plundered you—for whoever touches you touches the apple of His eye- I will surely raise My hand against them so that their slaves will plunder them. Then you will know that Yahweh of hostshas sent Me. Shout and be glad, O Daughter of Zion. For I am coming, and I will live among you,’ declares Yahweh. Many nations will be joined with Yahweh in that day and will become My people. I will live among you and you will know that Yahweh of hosts has sent Me to you. Yahweh will inherit Judah as his portion in the holy land and will again choose Jerusalem. Be still before Yahweh, all mankind, because he has roused himself from his holy dwelling.’” Zechariah 2:7-11

Come near me and listen to this: From the first announcement I have not spoken in secret; from the time it came to be I have been there. And now the Lord Yahweh has sent Me, with his Spirit. This is what Yahweh says — your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: ‘I am Yahweh your God, who teaches you what is best for you, who directs you in the way you should go.’” Isaiah 48:11b-17

Both have the Godhead.

Then it speaks of Emmanuel, God with us, as being born.

It is interesting that you chose those verses. As I said, Christian interpretations of OT scripture have found the son of God when, in fact, it was intended to reference Jews and the OT Lord. This is what happens when errors are made. There is no son of God, and OT scripture must be figuratively interpreted to find what Christians expect. You can, however, interpret OT verses predicting the Messiah or OT Lord coming into the world.

My favorite misinterpretation is Isaiah 53. Whereas, Christians reference Jesus as one who is persecuted, the verse was intended to reference Jews as downtrodden and afflicted. History certainly attests to the persecution of Jews. In particular, Nazi Germany persecuted Jews to fulfill such lamentations. "he was led like a lamp to the slaughter." (Isaiah 53:7).

 

[Kenny]

It is interesting that you chose those verses. As I said, Christian interpretations of OT scripture have found the son of God when, in fact, it was intended to reference Jews and the OT Lord. This is what happens when errors are made. There is no son of God, and OT scripture must be figuratively interpreted to find what Christians expect. You can, however, interpret OT verses predicting the Messiah or OT Lord coming into the world.

My favorite misinterpretation is Isaiah 53. Whereas, Christians reference Jesus as one who is persecuted, the verse was intended to reference Jews as downtrodden and afflicted. History certainly attests to the persecution of Jews. In particular, Nazi Germany persecuted Jews to fulfill such lamentations. "he was led like a lamp to the slaughter." (Isaiah 53:7).

I disagree... no errors for time and time again it was referenced "that it might be fulfilled".

To say that we misinterpreted it is to say that the Jews of that time misinterpreted it for the whole of the scriptures (NT) are of Jewish decent.

Jewish scriptures can have both a "now" application as well as a picture of "what is to come".

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

I do not think the Nazis were trying to fulfill anything in the Bible.

 

[Repox]

I disagree... no errors for time and time again it was referenced "that it might be fulfilled".

To say that we misinterpreted it is to say that the Jews of that time misinterpreted it for the whole of the scriptures (NT) are of Jewish decent.

Jewish scriptures can have both a "now" application as well as a picture of "what is to come".

You find justification in figurative interpretations justified by Jews who later became Christians. If you eliminate Christian interpretations of OT scripture, you find Jewish interpretations of their own scripture unrelated to NT gospels. You derive even more remarkable analysis when you eliminate the son of God. Then, OT verses become related to the Messiah or the OT Lord, who was Jesus. There is a huge body of referential quotes from the OT with misleading applications or false ideas about Jesus. The primary reason for not being able to find literal interpretations to the son of God is because it is a false idea. Jesus was God, not the son of God. Jesus was the OT Lord, or God. He came into the world to give testimony to his chosen people. It didn't go well for God when he came into the world. He was reviled, rejected, and murdered. Not being able to handle the truth about Jesus (God), people made up fantasy stories about Jesus being the son of God. Then, theologians struggled and found loose references to the son of God in the OT. Thus was born Disneyland Christianity. Accept Jesus as your savior and you'll be saved. What if there is no son of God?

 

[Kenny]

You find justification in figurative interpretations justified by Jews who later became Christians. If you eliminate Christian interpretations of OT scripture, you find Jewish interpretations of their own scripture unrelated to NT gospels. You derive even more remarkable analysis when you eliminate the son of God. Then, OT verses become related to the Messiah or the OT Lord, who was Jesus. There is a huge body of referential quotes from the OT with misleading applications or false ideas about Jesus. The primary reason for not being able to find literal interpretations to the son of God is because it is a false idea. Jesus was God, not the son of God. Jesus was the OT Lord, or God. He came into the world to give testimony to his chosen people. It didn't go well for God when he came into the world. He was reviled, rejected, and murdered. Not being able to handle the truth about Jesus (God), people made up fantasy stories about Jesus being the son of God. Then, theologians struggled and found loose references to the son of God in the OT. Thus was born Disneyland Christianity.

Great statements... but you haven't backed up any of it.

To say that son of God is a false idea is to take out Luke 1:35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God" as well as a myriad of other statements.

That is what causes other religions... slice and dice out what is written and create your own version.

And since you haven't backed up any of your positions with facts, I can place it under the "opinion" section of newspapers which you have every right to.

Accept Jesus as your savior and you'll be saved. What if there is no son of God?

What if you are a computer generated response?

 

[Repox]

Great statements... but you haven't backed up any of it.

To say that son of God is a false idea is to take out Luke 1:35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God" as well as a myriad of other statements.

That is what causes other religions... slice and dice out what is written and create your own version.

And since you haven't backed up any of your positions with facts, I can place it under the "opinion" section of newspapers which you have every right to.

What if you are a computer generated response?

We were discussing son of God references in the OT of which there are no literal interpretations. I have a big problem with quotes from the NT because it is not truthful. I make my assertion based on the lack of historical documentation and lack of referential support from prior gospels. You have not backed up your assertions with facts, just NT scripture. My proposal is those verses and stories are mostly fictitious. I know, Christian scholars don't except that position. Well, most of them aren't really scholars. They make statements based on assumptions without facts. If you do the research, you'll not find one single historical confirmation of a NT story. Back then, writers frequently lied or made up stories to gain notoriety. No one has really examined the credibility of NT stories. It must be the best kept secret of Christianity. The reason for not finding the son of God in the OT is because he doesn't' exist! Jesus was God (OT Lord), not the son of God.

 

[Ben Avraham]

I do not think the Nazis were trying to fulfill anything in the Bible.

Perhaps the role of the Antichrist.

It is interesting that you chose those verses. As I said, Christian interpretations of OT scripture have found the son of God when, in fact, it was intended to reference Jews and the OT Lord. This is what happens when errors are made. There is no son of God, and OT scripture must be figuratively interpreted to find what Christians expect. You can, however, interpret OT verses predicting the Messiah or OT Lord coming into the world.

My favorite misinterpretation is Isaiah 53. Whereas, Christians reference Jesus as one who is persecuted, the verse was intended to reference Jews as downtrodden and afflicted. History certainly attests to the persecution of Jews. In particular, Nazi Germany persecuted Jews to fulfill such lamentations. "he was led like a lamp to the slaughter." (Isaiah 53:7).

And Psalm 44:23 as in a plural reference to the People.

 

[Kenny]

We were discussing son of God references in the OT of which there are no literal interpretations. I have a big problem with quotes from the NT because it is not truthful. I make my assertion based on the lack of historical documentation and lack of referential support from prior gospels. You have not backed up your assertions with facts, just NT scripture. My proposal is those verses and stories are mostly fictitious. I know, Christian scholars don't except that position. Well, most of them aren't really scholars. They make statements based on assumptions without facts. If you do the research, you'll not find one single historical confirmation of a NT story. Back then, writers frequently lied or made up stories to gain notoriety. No one has really examined the credibility of NT stories. It must be the best kept secret of Christianity. The reason for not finding the son of God in the OT is because he doesn't' exist! Jesus was God (OT Lord), not the son of God.

Hardly. The NT historical accounts continue to be confirmed as true. NT is quite truthful.

 

[Ben Avraham]

Hardly. The NT historical accounts continue to be confirmed as true. NT is quite truthful.

Even when the NT teaches the Greek concept of the demigod which is the son of a god with an earthly woman? Read Mat. 1:18. That couldn't ever be true for the Jew that Jesus was.

 

[Kenny]

Even when the NT teaches the Greek concept of the demigod which is the son of a god with an earthly woman? Read Mat. 1:18. That couldn't ever be true for the Jew that Jesus was.

I disagree... the reason for being of an earthly woman is to be legally in this earth fulfilling Gen 1. It was also declared by Isaiah, God's prophet. Not a Greek concept but rather prophesied from the beginning in Jewish scripture.

 

[McBell]

not really

Think of it this way... there are many ways to construct a home. Split plan, two story, high ceiling etc. How you decorate your house isn't the issue... the issue is whether or not your foundation is square.

There is plenty of room to have different styles of churches to reach people, as long as the foundation is good, it's all good.

Except that a good foundation isn't enough for a home.
Don't believe me?
Talk to your local Building Department.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

I want to do God's will and I pray that I do God's will and find it thoroughly disgusting that God would remain silent and refuse to let me know His will. More than anything I want to know what God wants me to do and He just remains silent and refuses to let me know. It is despicable that God would refuse to reveal his will to a sincere seeker!

I just pray and pray that God would give me the Holy Spirit like he said he would and enlighten me so that I serve him and be obedient to everything he desires, but He insists on being unreasonable, dishonest, and completely the opposite of what He claims he is. God makes me nauseous with all his lies! So many people could do His will but God insisted on leaving them confused and refusing to speak up. It thoroughly disgusts me every time I think of how God has treated His people! God is absolutely responsible for how sick, fowl, confused, and gruesome our world is.

I find God to be completely nauseating! He ruined countless lives when he chose to hide himself, hide the truth, and leave people without understanding and enlightenment. When was the last time God left you with a clear message? I just want to do God's will, nothing more, and God is so shockingly revolting he refuses to let a genuine seeker have understanding. How could you Lord?!? You make me sick!

Sorry, I just need to vent. God's chronic silence and hiding himself is totally sickening don't you think?

I agree completely and it is this very thing that gives me final peace in rejecting any notion of the judeo-christian god. If a compassionate god did exist he would (in my estimation) have the responsibility to either explicitly state his will or to remain completely hidden from us.

I reject the notion that god want's us to know of his existence but not fully reveal his will. Just enough conflicting tidbits so that his name is used to justify horrendous acts against fellow human beings.

What is the point of an incomplete revelation?