Is there "Something" in empty space that we can't see ?

[George-ananda]

Is all this knowledge passed on in Hinduism? What would be interesting to see is to take rather separate systems of metaphysical knowledge and see how well they match up.

In other words if another religion/philosophy that was not in direct contact with Hinduism had also come to similar conclusions about planes of reality that would be interesting. Things that are true should be able to be discovered by different cultures. Like Calculus being invented by Newton and Lienbiz. This happens often in science.

I think you'll find many wisdom traditions like Native American, Tao and other traditions have some similar things to say about spirit planes and use different terminology for similar things. But I have found Vedic and Theosophical sources have coalesced all this information to the highest degree I have found.

 

[gnostic]

Things that are true should be able to be discovered by different cultures. Like Calculus being invented by Newton and Lienbiz. This happens often in science.

Other examples, Darwin and Wallace in Natural Selection, Friedmann, Robertson and Lemaitre with Expanding Universe model (or BB model). Whole bunch of different people come up with Quantum Mechanics.

 

[gnostic]

The Veda and the Theosophical sources I mentioned contain thousands of sages and thousands of years and thousands of individual sources. The best for me are the writings/translations of those that summarize and distill for my western understanding.

As to your question of dimensions (planes of reality) here is just one such summary article: Planes/Dimensions of Nature

I don't expect you tp grasp much of that as it has taken me years and is a work in progress.

So there isn't any Vedic sources that you can rely on discuss about the alternative plane or dimension..

...but you want me to rely on someone trying to tie modern concept with ancient and not so old concepts.

Such exegesis of old and new concepts, all jumbled together, have the tendencies to be biased towards the author's personal belief.

George, I have problems with Bahai Faith, trying to unify multiple faiths into a single a faith, so what make you think I wouldn't have problem with theosophy, trying to mix eastern religions, neoplatonism and science, with New Age occultist woo like theosophy?

I admired your dedication to your belief/philosophy, but such hybrid often give more unanswered questions than answering questions.

And as to the questions of paranormal which you are so fond of, and which I used to believe in when I was much younger, I have given up some 20 years ago as woo.

As some stories, the paranormal are fascinating, even today, but I don't see them as reality. The thing is I did go down that rabbit hole, but so far I have seen no evidence of clairvoyance and telepathic powers. They are all just make-believe, and I am not ready to go down that rabbit hole again.

 

[George-ananda]

So there isn't any Vedic sources that you can rely on discuss about the alternative plane or dimension..

...but you want me to rely on someone trying to tie modern concept with ancient and not so old concepts.

Such exegesis of old and new concepts, all jumbled together, have the tendencies to be biased towards the author's personal belief.

George, I have problems with Bahai Faith, trying to unify multiple faiths into a single a faith, so what make you think I wouldn't have problem with theosophy, trying to mix eastern religions, neoplatonism and science, with New Age occultist woo like theosophy?

I admired your dedication to your belief/philosophy, but such hybrid often give more unanswered questions than answering questions.

And as to the questions of paranormal which you are so fond of, and which I used to believe in when I was much younger, I have given up some 20 years ago as woo.

As some stories, the paranormal are fascinating, even today, but I don't see them as reality. The thing is I did go down that rabbit hole, but so far I have seen no evidence of clairvoyance and telepathic powers. They are all just make-believe, and I am not ready to go down that rabbit hole again.

I believe the paranormal exists beyond reasonable doubt from the quantity, quality and consistency of the anecdotal, investigative and experimental evidence. It’s what is called a preponderance of evidence.

And the timeframe of spiritual sources is not important. I am influenced much by modern teachers teaching in modern language. They also provide an explanatory model for paranormal claims that mainstream science can only be baffled by or simply deny.

 

[joelr]

I think you'll find many wisdom traditions like Native American, Tao and other traditions have some similar things to say about spirit planes and use different terminology for similar things. But I have found Vedic and Theosophical sources have coalesced all this information to the highest degree I have found.

That's my point, what makes them so special? Just like science why wouldn't all cultures find out these things to a similar degree?
If Hinduism has come the closest to developing metaphysical abilities then this is terrible evidence because no one in the Hindu culture can demonstrate paranormal abilities.
One of the best known spiritual masters was known for "miracles" - Sai Baba's disciples and devotees claim that he performed many miracles such as bilocation, levitation, mindreading, materialisation, exorcisms, entering a state of Samādhi at will, lighting lamps with water, removing his limbs or intestines and sticking them back to his body.

Wow, he used his powers to reproduce the tricks fraudulent performers have been doing for centuries? Except he can do them for real? What a coincidence.

Besides Dean Radin who I'm skeptical about and who would be a small piece of evidence all of the studies on ESP done by the military, Stanford:
Parapsychology research at SRI - Wikipedia
and so on have not produced results. These types of experiments have long been discarded as useless. Besides all the frauds in ghost hunting, New Age and whatever else (even Hindu masters) where is this evidence?
When I was into Big Foot I watched endless videos of detailed stories about encounters with Big Foot. Same with ufo abductions. So people's capacity to tell lies is off the chart. So anecdotal evidence is useless.

Cold reading and psychics are a skillset that has noting to do with ESP. More lies. Religious prophets, nope.
Sai Baba has millions of followers who say he's real. If that doesn't demonstrate that peoples claims are either lies or confirmation bias then there are probably many other examples.

Huge amounts of bad evidence do not add up to evidence. I would love to see evidence.

 

[joelr]

Other examples, Darwin and Wallace in Natural Selection, Friedmann, Robertson and Lemaitre with Expanding Universe model (or BB model). Whole bunch of different people come up with Quantum Mechanics.

Wiki has a whole page listing dozens of multiple discoveries, happens often it looks like.

 

[George-ananda]

That's my point, what makes them so special? Just like science why wouldn't all cultures find out these things to a similar degree?
If Hinduism has come the closest to developing metaphysical abilities then this is terrible evidence because no one in the Hindu culture can demonstrate paranormal abilities.
One of the best known spiritual masters was known for "miracles" - Sai Baba's disciples and devotees claim that he performed many miracles such as bilocation, levitation, mindreading, materialisation, exorcisms, entering a state of Samādhi at will, lighting lamps with water, removing his limbs or intestines and sticking them back to his body.

Wow, he used his powers to reproduce the tricks fraudulent performers have been doing for centuries? Except he can do them for real? What a coincidence.

Besides Dean Radin who I'm skeptical about and who would be a small piece of evidence all of the studies on ESP done by the military, Stanford:
Parapsychology research at SRI - Wikipedia
and so on have not produced results. These types of experiments have long been discarded as useless. Besides all the frauds in ghost hunting, New Age and whatever else (even Hindu masters) where is this evidence?
When I was into Big Foot I watched endless videos of detailed stories about encounters with Big Foot. Same with ufo abductions. So people's capacity to tell lies is off the chart. So anecdotal evidence is useless.

Cold reading and psychics are a skillset that has noting to do with ESP. More lies. Religious prophets, nope.
Sai Baba has millions of followers who say he's real. If that doesn't demonstrate that peoples claims are either lies or confirmation bias then there are probably many other examples.

Huge amounts of bad evidence do not add up to evidence. I would love to see evidence.

We are not going to agree. I don't share your implied claim of great deceivers for all these people, subject and figures you're accumulating above. Each one is a separate serious discussion. You want to lump then all in one basket and throw then out the window as fraud. How convenient but inaccurate.

And yes I believe there are wisdom traditions that can tell us about the universe beyond the physical surface. And these traditions provide explanatory models for the phenomena above instead of the crude lump and dump approach I'm hearing from you.

It starts with my position that the evidence for this deeper universe is there in these phenomena. The explanation becomes what is interesting to me now.

 

[joelr]

We are not going to agree. I don't share your implied claim of great deceivers for all these people, subject and figures you're accumulating above. Each one is a separate serious discussion. You want to lump then all in one basket and throw then out the window as fraud. How convenient but inaccurate.

And yes I believe there are wisdom traditions that can tell us about the universe beyond the physical surface. And these traditions provide explanatory models for the phenomena above instead of the crude lump and dump approach I'm hearing from you.

It starts with my position that the evidence for this deeper universe is there in these phenomena. The explanation becomes what is interesting to me now.

Yes evidence matters. Many examples of fraud do not add up to supernatural demonstrations.
I see that Hindu religions have a deep connection to mysticism. Cool, I can't find anything where someone has given reasonable demonstrations of some type of ESP or anything of the sort?
I don't need to lump them all in one basket, show me a Hindu who is being tested for supernatural abilities, just one.
It sounds like lump and dump because I'll I find is fraud. A Hindu master with millions of followers and he's doing typical Hindu magic tricks?
I did find a Kundalini study re-posted in dozens of websites.
Turns out the Yale doctor doesn't exist, the institute where the study was done doesn't exist and it was all fake. But it was re-posted on endless new age and Hindu websites. It's exhausting.