Is there such a thing as a universal religion?

[IndigoChild5559]

Our earliest societies were egalitarian.

Yes, and that all ended during the agrarian revolution when cities were built. I don't see the end of either cities or their hierarchies any time in the near future.

 

[ppp]

And I provided an example of why I would think that's the case. Our earliest societies were egalitarian. And we were egalitarian well before we were settled societies. It's just the Nature of things

How do we know that our earliest societies were egalitarian? I don't object to the notion, but I do not know see any methodology to establish that as a fact. Or even as probable. Is there a paper you can point me to?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

How do we know that our earliest societies were egalitarian? I don't object to the notion, but I do not know see any methodology to establish that as a fact. Or even as probable. Is there a paper you can point me to?

There are several lines of evidence.

1. Archeologists look for physical evidence of egalitarianism. For example, a community where all the houses are the same size is most likely egalitarian. A community where the graves don't show variation indicates egalitarianism. You get the idea.

2. Because human beings before the agrarian revolution were hunter gatherers, scientists study hunter gatherer societies that are around today (the less exposed to outside cultures the better). What they find is that these societies are much more commonly egalitarian.

The evidence indicates that hierarchic cultures developed with the building of cities and agrarianism. That would have been around the 4th millenium BCE. Compare that to modern humans having been around for the last 2-300,000 years.

 

[The Hammer]

How do we know that our earliest societies were egalitarian? I don't object to the notion, but I do not know see any methodology to establish that as a fact. Or even as probable. Is there a paper you can point me to?

Most anthropological evidence points to the egalitarian nature of our earliest hunter gathering societies, and therefore an inmate part of our Natures. (Added edit) Greed only exists when resources can be accumulated.

The original egalitarian societies: What human history tells us about human nature – Solidarity Online

For the bulk of our existence, humans have lived in egalitarian societies, argues Caitlin Doyle-Markwick, showing that a society based on competition and greed is not inevitable.

solidarity.net.au

Early men and women were equal, say scientists

Study shows that modern hunter-gatherer tribes operate on egalitarian basis, suggesting inequality was an aberration that came with the advent of agriculture

www.theguardian.com

Edited with new link:

 

[ppp]

There are several lines of evidence.

1. Archeologists look for physical evidence of egalitarianism. For example, a community where all the houses are the same size is most likely egalitarian. A community where the graves don't show variation indicates egalitarianism. You get the idea.

2. Because human beings before the agrarian revolution were hunter gatherers, scientists study hunter gatherer societies that are around today (the less exposed to outside cultures the better). What they find is that these societies are much more commonly egalitarian.

The evidence indicates that hierarchic cultures developed with the building of cities and agrarianism. That would have been around the 4th millenium BCE. Compare that to modern humans having been around for the last 2-300,000 years.

Again, I do not oppose the notion. But I am interested in a peer reviewed paper with methodology. What you say is consistent with the notion, but I am looking for substantiation. No worries, I have added it to my todo list.

 

[ppp]

Most anthropological evidence points to the egalitarian nature of our earliest hunter gathering societies, and therefore an inmate part of our Natures. (Added edit) Greed only exists when resources can be accumulated.

The original egalitarian societies: What human history tells us about human nature – Solidarity Online

For the bulk of our existence, humans have lived in egalitarian societies, argues Caitlin Doyle-Markwick, showing that a society based on competition and greed is not inevitable.

solidarity.net.au

Early men and women were equal, say scientists

Study shows that modern hunter-gatherer tribes operate on egalitarian basis, suggesting inequality was an aberration that came with the advent of agriculture

www.theguardian.com

Edited with new link:

Sorry, but that isn't peer reviewed scientific journal. I am down with socialism, but that won't do for my purposes. Sorry.

 

[The Hammer]

Sorry, but that isn't peer reviewed scientific journal. I am down with socialism, but that won't do for my purposes. Sorry.

Yeah, i noticed, that's why I added the link to the guardian article.

The stuff I posted early in this thread is peer reviewed though.

 

[ppp]

Yeah, i noticed, that's why I added the link to the guardian article.

The stuff I posted early in this thread is peer reviewed though.

Do you have a link to the earlier post? If not, I will hunt it down later.

 

[The Hammer]

Do you have a link to the earlier post? If not, I will hunt it down later.

Eh, you'd probably not like that one either, now that I look back on it.

So here's wiki with their direct sourcing.

"Çatalhöyük has strong evidence of an egalitarian society, as no houses with distinctive features (belonging to royalty or religious hierarchy for example) have been found so far. The most recent investigations also reveal little social distinction based on gender, with men and women receiving equivalent nutrition and seeming to have equal social status, as typically found in Paleolithic cultures.[37][38]"

Çatalhöyük - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[IndigoChild5559]

"Çatalhöyük has strong evidence of an egalitarian society, as no houses with distinctive features (belonging to royalty or religious hierarchy for example) have been found so far. "

Yes. The Danube River culture is also believed to be egalitarian for the same reasons.

 

[ppp]

Eh, you'd probably not like that one either, now that I look back on it.

So here's wiki with their direct sourcing.

"Çatalhöyük has strong evidence of an egalitarian society, as no houses with distinctive features (belonging to royalty or religious hierarchy for example) have been found so far. The most recent investigations also reveal little social distinction based on gender, with men and women receiving equivalent nutrition and seeming to have equal social status, as typically found in Paleolithic cultures.[37][38]"

Çatalhöyük - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Nah. You are good. The references are tight.

 

[The Hammer]

Yes. The Danube River culture is also believed to be egalitarian for the same reasons.

The sedentary HG societies of the PNW had a unique way of addressing accumulation. Through a process/event called a "potlatch", whereby those who gave away the most were considered the richest, most powerful.

The more gifts given, the higher the status achieved by the potlatch host.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The sedentary HG societies of the PNW had a unique way of addressing accumulation. Through a process/event called a "potlatch", whereby those who gave away the most were considered the richest, most powerful.

The more gifts given, the higher the status achieved by the potlatch host.

You are absolutely correct. It's something that I greatly appreciate about the Pacific Northwest tribes.

On a side note...
I learned that contrary to popular notion, testosterone does not actually increase violence. What it actually does is increase a man's desire for status. The reason testosterone is correlated with violence is because most societies (including ours) gives status to aggressive men. But when you give testosterone supplements to men in these Pacific Northwest tribes, they don't get violent. What they do have more of these potlatches where they give away their wealth, because in the culture of their tribe, THAT is what gives status. Interesting, no?

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Is Christianity a universal religion? Islam? Given their Middle Eastern focus, their almost exclusive interest in a limited geographical area, Semitic language and concepts not known by those outside that culture, limited view of history etc.

So you tell me you don't give a crap about Israel.

No, I don't give a crap about Israel. I'm Anglo-Saxon.

Then perhaps I could show you how other biblical nations have their certain positions assigned. It is exactly the same concept. The positioning of different words/symbols into the twelve positions (reminds me of a Zodiac wheel). So for example if we look at the biblical nation of Ethiopia we can assess the different symbols that are associated with it. Like here we can see it is with Leopard:

"Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil".

I already know the biblical leopard position and being as the Bible says the leopard is with the kid goat, and the goat is in the wilderness, and the sword is of the wilderness. I know they are symbols of a shared position which I can explain in detail in multiple ways. I know these certain words/symbols are in a specific westerly group position.

North - West - East
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Lion - Leopard - Wolf
Spear - Sword - Bow
Desert - Wilderness - Mountain


Therefore it is logical to know where to place Ethiopia. Like the Bible also says Ethiopia being put to the sword (position). I know leopard and also sword are in the same position. So I know it is possible to scientifically assess the different positions (judgements) of other biblical nations (Can you comprehend how they all fit into Israel?) Same concept.

Consider the biblical Ephraim is also as a being with the very specific set of symbols of sun, bow, and sheep attached. Now that might sound familiar like it could possibly be a god, but I know it is just one of the twelve positions. Its over in an easterly position.

The biblical Israel and the other biblical nations are not just limited to a geographical area as you might think. They are part of a universal structure of grouping specific words/symbols into twelve positions.

 

[paarsurrey]

Is there such a thing as a universal religion?

When science ever maximizes its power and influence, and when many mainstream religions can be properly refuted then that might open the door for a universal philosophy/religion.

It will never, ever happen, rest assured as:-
Science has its limitations/chains not fixed/put by the truthful Religion but by its mother/father aka the Scientific Method so it will never enter the realm ( ethical, moral and spiritual) that belongs to the truthful Religion, one must say, please, right?
The truthful Religion is already universal and serving the humanity excellently, so there in no need also, right?:
3:20
Surely, the true religion with Allah is Islam (complete submission). And those who were given the Book did not disagree but after knowledge had come to them, out of mutual envy. And whoso denies the Signs of Allah, then surely, Allah is quick at reckoning. | Holy Quran: Read, Listen and Search
3:85
Say, ‘We believe in Allah and in that which has been revealed to us, and that which was revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Tribes, and that which was given to Moses and Jesus and other Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we submit.’
3:86
And whoso seeks a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the life to come he shall be among the losers.

Holy Quran: Read, Listen and Search

In Arabic, Chinese, English, French, German, Italian, Spanish and Urdu.

www.alislam.org

Right?

Regards
___________________
Original Arabic narration/text from Muhammad's time is below:-
3:20
اِنَّ الدِّیۡنَ عِنۡدَ اللّٰہِ الۡاِسۡلَامُ ۟ وَمَا اخۡتَلَفَ الَّذِیۡنَ اُوۡتُوا الۡکِتٰبَ اِلَّا مِنۡۢ بَعۡدِ مَا جَآءَہُمُ الۡعِلۡمُ بَغۡیًۢا بَیۡنَہُمۡ ؕ وَمَنۡ یَّکۡفُرۡ بِاٰیٰتِ اللّٰہِ فَاِنَّ اللّٰہَ سَرِیۡعُ الۡحِسَابِ ﴿۲۰
3:85
قُلۡ اٰمَنَّا بِاللّٰہِ وَمَاۤ اُنۡزِلَ عَلَیۡنَا وَمَاۤ اُنۡزِلَ عَلٰۤی اِبۡرٰہِیۡمَ وَاِسۡمٰعِیۡلَ وَاِسۡحٰقَ وَیَعۡقُوۡبَ وَالۡاَسۡبَاطِ وَمَاۤ اُوۡتِیَ مُوۡسٰی وَعِیۡسٰی وَالنَّبِیُّوۡنَ مِنۡ رَّبِّہِمۡ ۪ لَا نُفَرِّقُ بَیۡنَ اَحَدٍ مِّنۡہُمۡ ۫ وَنَحۡنُ لَہٗ مُسۡلِمُوۡنَ ﴿۸۵
3:86
وَمَنۡ یَّبۡتَغِ غَیۡرَ الۡاِسۡلَامِ دِیۡنًا فَلَنۡ یُّقۡبَلَ مِنۡہُ ۚ وَہُوَ فِی الۡاٰخِرَۃِ مِنَ الۡخٰسِرِیۡنَ ﴿۸۶

 

[osgart]

Is there such a thing as a universal religion?

It will never, ever happen, rest assured as:-
Science has its limitations/chains not fixed/put by the truthful Religion but by its mother/father aka the Scientific Method so it will never enter the realm ( ethical, moral and spiritual) that belongs to the truthful Religion, one must say, please, right?
The truthful Religion is already universal and serving the humanity excellently, so there in no need also, right?:
3:20
Surely, the true religion with Allah is Islam (complete submission). And those who were given the Book did not disagree but after knowledge had come to them, out of mutual envy. And whoso denies the Signs of Allah, then surely, Allah is quick at reckoning. | Holy Quran: Read, Listen and Search
3:85
Say, ‘We believe in Allah and in that which has been revealed to us, and that which was revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Tribes, and that which was given to Moses and Jesus and other Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we submit.’
3:86
And whoso seeks a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the life to come he shall be among the losers.

Holy Quran: Read, Listen and Search

In Arabic, Chinese, English, French, German, Italian, Spanish and Urdu.

www.alislam.org

Right?

Regards
___________________
Original Arabic narration/text from Muhammad's time is below:-
3:20
اِنَّ الدِّیۡنَ عِنۡدَ اللّٰہِ الۡاِسۡلَامُ ۟ وَمَا اخۡتَلَفَ الَّذِیۡنَ اُوۡتُوا الۡکِتٰبَ اِلَّا مِنۡۢ بَعۡدِ مَا جَآءَہُمُ الۡعِلۡمُ بَغۡیًۢا بَیۡنَہُمۡ ؕ وَمَنۡ یَّکۡفُرۡ بِاٰیٰتِ اللّٰہِ فَاِنَّ اللّٰہَ سَرِیۡعُ الۡحِسَابِ ﴿۲۰
3:85
قُلۡ اٰمَنَّا بِاللّٰہِ وَمَاۤ اُنۡزِلَ عَلَیۡنَا وَمَاۤ اُنۡزِلَ عَلٰۤی اِبۡرٰہِیۡمَ وَاِسۡمٰعِیۡلَ وَاِسۡحٰقَ وَیَعۡقُوۡبَ وَالۡاَسۡبَاطِ وَمَاۤ اُوۡتِیَ مُوۡسٰی وَعِیۡسٰی وَالنَّبِیُّوۡنَ مِنۡ رَّبِّہِمۡ ۪ لَا نُفَرِّقُ بَیۡنَ اَحَدٍ مِّنۡہُمۡ ۫ وَنَحۡنُ لَہٗ مُسۡلِمُوۡنَ ﴿۸۵
3:86
وَمَنۡ یَّبۡتَغِ غَیۡرَ الۡاِسۡلَامِ دِیۡنًا فَلَنۡ یُّقۡبَلَ مِنۡہُ ۚ وَہُوَ فِی الۡاٰخِرَۃِ مِنَ الۡخٰسِرِیۡنَ ﴿۸۶

Wrong. It's just empty word claims on a page. I didn't grow up with Islam so it has no meaning for me. If you like Middle Eastern wars, violence, and terror then Islam seems to be the religion for that.

Just what exactly are you submitting to?