Is there such a thing as Islamic culture?

[Zindagee Rahmaan]

Thats not entirely what I meant. I am saying that maybe its important for you to push an agenda of 'no sectarian division' in Islam. .

PLz read my intro for my agenda about no sectism:
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...s-com/80110-hello-salaam-alaikum-lov-all.html

but there is reality, and there are ideals, and the ideal simply cant survive the nature of the reality of the Muslim world.
sectarian strife is alive and kicking in Islam, not to mention the wide spread armed conflicts through out the 'Islamic culture' only in the modern age.
in this case, Kai point stands.

okay I ageed with this ponit! :yes:

 

[Caladan]

PLz read my intro for my agenda about no sectism:
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...s-com/80110-hello-salaam-alaikum-lov-all.html

*nods*
It is a nice intro. and I would understand why you feel this way. but as this as a very diverse forum, many of us think its part of the stream of discussions to engage many ideas and posts, and many times even challenge them.
all of the variety of agendas and ideas of all forum members have probably been challenged, and its what makes us examine where we stand, whats the state of mind and affairs out there in relation to where we stand, etc.

 

[gnostic]

Culture is the "way of life". If people follow specific ways of living, then that's culture.

And Islam, particularly the Qur'an and Hadiths give specific instruction on how to live their life.

For example, praying 5 times a day, which Islamic teachings encouraged. If people actually go about praying 5 times a day, then that's culture. This is not ethnic-related or racial-related culture, but religious-culture.

I am not Muslim, but I am fairly sure that there are many teachings in Islam, which people followed.

Some Christians actually go to church every Sunday. It has become a way of life for them, so it's culture.

 

[Zindagee Rahmaan]

*nods*
It is a nice intro. and I would understand why you feel this way. but as this as a very diverse forum, many of us think its part of the stream of discussions to engage many ideas and posts, and many times even challenge them.
.

Thanks for your good comments about my intro!
Why not I love to face challenges! most welcome any time, but currently I am on exams these day...Need prayersssssssss:sad:

all of the variety of agendas and ideas of all forum members have probably been challenged, and its what makes us examine where we stand, whats the state of mind and affairs out there in relation to where we stand, etc.

I like to face these challenges Inshallah will strech my leg very soon to make down all standing ideas Just a challenging thought!

 

[Caladan]

Thanks for your good comments about my intro!
Why not I love to face challenges! most welcome any time, but currently I am on exams these day...Need prayersssssssss:sad:

LOL I hear ya! all the best on your exams

 

[Jack Watson]

Islam is definitely a culture as it has been teaching people since ages on how to live a sober life. Islam is like a universal way of life and civilization. Upon reading some arabic books, you will find a lot about the history of the muslim culture

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Is there a Christian culture? A Pagan culture? Gay culture? Straight culture?
I didn't think so.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Islam is definitely a culture as it has been teaching people since ages on how to live a sober life. Islam is like a universal way of life and civilization. Upon reading some arabic books, you will find a lot about the history of the muslim culture

To say there is a Muslim culture you would have to establish that most Muslims more-or-less behave in the same way and have the same set of rules, norms, and set of appropriate behaviors and actions for members, but this cannot be established as there is too much variance, much like there is with Christianity. There are various sub-cultures of Muslims, but there is no one Muslim culture as not all Muslims come from the same culture, thus they will think and behave differently.

 

[NulliuSINverba]

I'm not sure there is.

Kind of like how there is no Christian culture, right?

I think people practice Islam in many different cultures.

Just like how people merely practice Christianity in many different cultures, right?

I think this flexibility of Islam is one of it's strengths - it's message carries across cultures and 'works' in different contexts.

At the risk of upsetting your oddly balanced apple cart, permit me to offer the following bits of evidence to support the notion that there is indeed such a thing as Islamic Culture:

1.) The Everything Understanding Islam Book: A complete guide to Muslim beliefs, practices, and culture by Christine Huda Dodge.

2.) Islamic Art and Architecture by Robert Hillenbrand. Art and architecture still count as "cultural" items, correct?

3.) The Mighty Wikipedia has a whole page brimming over with what it refers to as "Islamic Culture."

4.) A site devoted to Islamic music. Music still counts as a "cultural" item, correct?

5.) A site that has a section devoted to Islamic cuisine. Cuisine still counts as a "cultural" item, correct?

...

I'd go on, but it seems safe to conclude that there may actually be such a thing as Islamic Culture. And who knows ... the same might be true for Christianity and other religions as well.

 

[NulliuSINverba]

Is there a Christian culture? A Pagan culture? Gay culture? Straight culture?
I didn't think so.

<<<ahem>>>

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I relate it to American Culture. We have a culture based on individualism and independence, work ethics and political focused ways of government (and even ways of thinking). We all definitely are different. Being an American is what nationality one is and not ones culture, we still have shared perspectives whether we have been raised or how long we've lived in the U.S. That is our culture, those shared perspectives of values (we seem to be loosing).

You have Deaf* culture. The single line that separates me as a predominately hearing person (I'm hard of hearing) is that I identify with Hearing culture. Even though many deaf people who are culturally Deaf can be hard of hearing and some hearing as well. They differ just as the many people in the world; but they are united by their experiences of being Deaf (H/H, Deaf, or deaf) in a hearing world.

There is a GBLT culture. Cultures unify in various experiences but a common theme, not only in regards to how we identify ourselves or our sexual orientation, but like Deaf Culture, how we relate to others within our culture with that of the majority heterosexual majority and experiences with them.

Christianity is a cultured faith. It isn't "neo" or nondenominational. The Apostles taught Jesus Words and they never taught them a part from their own ethnic customs. That is like saying that Jesus only spoke of love but never showed it by His practice of Jewish customs for which He was raised. I'm sure Jesus would respected if Christians followed the what He did while heading His warning of not doing what the other Jews did, putting practices over worship to His Father.

Individuals of Deaf Culture (rather than saying Deaf individuals), GBLT, and Christian individuals have in their respectful groups have similar customs (language, arts, former; minority experiences, arts, etc, middle; traditions--from Eucharist to how we decided wine can be grape juice instead, latter). I am sure this is no different in the Muslim community who are varied but, I don't know how it is referred, but of once culture.

Deaf--Those who identify as deaf, hard of hearing, or hearing that share experiences (Language, art, and education..etc) in a hearing world. (Not limited to this definition, of course)

deaf--Those who identify with the inability to hear.

To say there is a Muslim culture you would have to establish that most Muslims more-or-less behave in the same way and have the same set of rules, norms, and set of appropriate behaviors and actions for members, but this cannot be established as there is too much variance, much like there is with Christianity. There are various sub-cultures of Muslims, but there is no one Muslim culture as not all Muslims come from the same culture, thus they will think and behave differently.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You have Deaf* culture.

No, there isn't.

There is a GBLT culture.

There are no such things.

Christianity is a cultured faith.

This applies to all religions, and many aspects of how we live and view the world.
I can't find any good links, but basically a culture is the predominate group. Individualism is a part of the American culture, as is Christianity, but Christianity itself is not a culture. All of the individual denominations, and broken down even further each individual church, is part of a sub-culture. These are members who belong to a larger culture, but adhere to their own practices and norms. Looking at a broader, global picture, you will not find enough similarities within individual religions, such as Christianity or Islam, to establish a definable "Christian culture," as every last Christian on the planet belongs to larger culture that shapes how they view and think about the world. Christians born and raised in America are culturally Western because they will have a Western world view whereas Christians born and raised in Vietnam are culturally Eastern because they will have an Eastern world view. You can easily find many sub-cultures within a larger culture, and even those who march in a pride-parade are members of the larger culture (such as Western) which is the primary source for their socialized thinking and behavior, and members of a sub-culture which is more suited to their own personal desires. Deaf Americans will still think like Americans and Deaf Chinese will still think like Chinese. This is why there is no broadly definable "deaf culture," or "GBLT culture," or even a "Christian culture" or "Muslim culture."

 

[Shadow Wolf]

4.) A site devoted to Islamic music. Music still counts as a "cultural" item, correct?

Actually, this is a fantastic example of why there is no Muslim culture at large: Many within Islam believe music to be haraam. There is still music based on and inspired by Islam, but these pieces are created by members of various sub-cultures as there is no adequate way to put all Muslims into the some group of culture because there is such varying (and sometimes widely) beliefs about the religion.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Christians born and raised in America are culturally Western because they will have a Western world view whereas Christians born and raised in Vietnam are culturally Eastern because they will have an Eastern world view.

This is pretty much the reason why Middle Eastern Muslims are more likely to support terrorism while American Muslims are strongly opposed to it and act pretty much just like any other American.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I'll give you the last one, Since, I don't identify as Christian. The first two are wrong. One, because I worked and studied with Deaf and Hard of Hearing people and was involved in the Deaf Community. It is not based on hearing, it is based on shared values by similar experiences and values of being d/Deaf (or raised in a Deaf) in a hearing culture.

The second is because I am homosexual. I do identify with other values and experiences that other GBLT have. We are different, as many people are in each respective culture. (Not all Japanese are the same; yet, we don't deny them as having their own customs unique within their country and/or household even) I am a part of GBLT culture.

Good example is African American culture. I am African American (among other races), and many African Americans in the states unless they know or researched their roots might now know if they are really a part of Africa and if so what part of Africa. That is the "nice" name we are given, a step up from colored, which was a step up from negro, and you get the point? There are African Americans all over the World (I'll say U.S.) and for some reason, no matter where we are from we have this "thing" that underlines all boundaries of race and trails to experiences as a minority and racism. That is part of our culture. I wasn't raised in African American culture; but, I know who identifies in it and who doesn't.

Christianity

For example, Jesus is Jewish. He practiced Jewish customs. He had a culture. So did His apostles, and so forth. Christians in America don't seem to have the same cultural perspective that makes Christ not only a Savior but a Person too. A lot of people disvalue His family. In many many many cultures, family is very important. Christianity is a Communion, or collectivist, values. It is not individualist. Jesus taught to be One Body. Not each body do its own thing. These practices, customs, and so forth that makes up Jesus teachings and the Apostles teachings of Christ part of the culture with which Christianity came from. If Christians are to follow Christ, they (some) shouldn't put aside half of who Christ is and just see Him for His Spirit only. (Anyway, I'm on the Catholic side on this one--I believe traditions are important in Christianity; traditions make up the culture or customs of ones faith. Without it, there is no structure and that's why we have so many denominies)

In other words, Jesus had a culture. Christianity started with Jesus. So that's the relationship. Anything else, depends on the person and where they are from and how they apply Christ's teachings within their respective culture(s).

This applies to all religions, and many aspects of how we live and view the world.

I can't find any good links, but basically a culture is the predominate group. Individualism is a part of the American culture, as is Christianity, but Christianity itself is not a culture. All of the individual denominations, and broken down even further each individual church, is part of a sub-culture. These are members who belong to a larger culture, but adhere to their own practices and norms. Looking at a broader, global picture, you will not find enough similarities within individual religions, such as Christianity or Islam, to establish a definable "Christian culture," as every last Christian on the planet belongs to larger culture that shapes how they view and think about the world. Christians born and raised in America are culturally Western because they will have a Western world view whereas Christians born and raised in Vietnam are culturally Eastern because they will have an Eastern world view. You can easily find many sub-cultures within a larger culture, and even those who march in a pride-parade are members of the larger culture (such as Western) which is the primary source for their socialized thinking and behavior, and members of a sub-culture which is more suited to their own personal desires. Deaf Americans will still think like Americans and Deaf Chinese will still think like Chinese. This is why there is no broadly definable "deaf culture," or "GBLT culture," or even a "Christian culture" or "Muslim culture."

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It is not based on hearing, it is based on shared values by similar experiences and values of being d/Deaf (or raised in a Deaf) in a hearing culture.

That is an example of a sub-culture, not a culture. They have their own experiences and values, but they are still shaped by the larger culture that they live in, making them a sub-culture.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

That is an example of a sub-culture, not a culture. They have their own experiences and values, but they are still shaped by the larger culture that they live in, making them a sub-culture.

That's not how they identify themselves. Most I know say it is a Deaf "Culture." not "Deaf Sub-culture." I go by how they define it. They (my exp) they have a different culture than majority main Americans; just as Hawaii, who are Americans, have a culture that (at least before) was dissimilar than that of the mainland.

What am I trying to say? It's not a sub-culture because Deaf Culture is global. It isn't American (main)-->Deaf Culture (sub)-->Home customs-->individual values type of thing. You have so many people who identify in Deaf Culture come around the world, join hands (both literal and figuratively) and consider each other as One Culture. Of course, Deaf Americans will know they are Americans. I find that a lot identify in Deaf Culture first because some (I wont say all) I talked with identify American culture with majority which in this case involves hearing ability as well.

I mean, my friend is born and raised here in America yet her main culture is Philippine. That's how her family and she identifies themselves. American, to them, is a sub-culture.

A lot of Deaf individuals feel the same. They know they are Americans, of course; some identify their main culture as Deaf and their "sub-culture" as American.

Get it?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

That is an example of a sub-culture, not a culture. They have their own experiences and values, but they are still shaped by the larger culture that they live in, making them a sub-culture.

That's true if I'm talking about African American culture. I think there is history that people were labeled African American when they are not.. so their main culture was different than Americans have. (So their culture shaped their American values not the other way around)
--
Since there are so many Deaf people around the world that identify as One culture, there can't be a main one. For example, Jane in California, John in Brazil, and Janet in Africa who are all Deaf are not shaped by one main culture alone (They are not all Americans, Brazilians, or Africans). So they identify their main culture as Deaf and their sub-culture as the country they are from.

I know that our cultures can be shaped by the majority culture. It is not always the case especially in minority groups whose cultures are not influenced by "one" main culture but more of a global stigma that makes that group of people minorities.

Get it?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That's not how they identify themselves. Most I know say it is a Deaf "Culture." not "Deaf Sub-culture." I go by how they define it. They (my exp) they have a different culture than majority main Americans; just as Hawaii, who are Americans, have a culture that (at least before) was dissimilar than that of the mainland.

I study these things. The deaf are a sub-culture, not a culture. This is a very basic anthropological and sociological definition.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I study these things. The deaf are a sub-culture, not a culture. This is a very basic anthropological and sociological definition.

I studied it too. I was involved in the culture for education and work purposes. It is similar to the religious opinions. We can give our views from what we study, but if we do not experience it for ourselves we will only go by what we learned. Using the dictionary as the golden rule rather than asking the individual themselves about who they are in regards to how they place themselves in main and sub cultural views.

It's not a debate topic in itself, but it would be good to have someone who is from that culture to shine some light on how they identify themselves and whether they see Deaf Culture as their main culture or as a sub culture.

I had a Deaf friend whose (in your point of view, by study; mine by second hand) main culture is...I can't remember now... I'll say Cuban. She was born and raised in Cuba and came to the US and is now an American citizen. Her values were not shaped by American culture because at the time she had no influence from American culture. You'd think she would identify her main culture as Cuban, but she doesn't. She says she is Deaf and that is the culture she identifies with.

What I found interesting is that she did not identify her main culture as Cuban and sub cultures as American and Deaf. Instead, she said her main culture is Deaf and her home culture is Cuban (and by default, her nationality is American) which, of course, has its own cultural values. It's not that their Culture is not influenced by others; every culture is influenced by another. It's that her main culture is that of the Deaf Community. The community is global. They are not set in a particular country or political set of values that are a subset of a bigger whole.

That's what makes the Deaf Community unique. When I went to Gallaudet University (School for Deaf and Hard of Hearing and limited hearing student majors) a lot for my studies, I talked with a lot of Deaf people. They never said anything about their hearing status. The younger students were more about their relationship as a community what they can do and not the oppression and things that they didn't experience in the past. It wasn't about "shared bad experiences that makes them a community" it was more "shared values and good experiences that made them a culture.

Also, you have interpreters who, some, because of their respectfulness to their clients and recognizing that their clients' culture, find that they become part of Deaf Culture themselves.
--

It's like what I said about my friend. She is American, born and raised here. She identifies as Philippine culture. In the States, Philippine culture are influenced by the majority culture (American) but that doesn't make them sub-cultures. From a Deaf perspective (sorry, bad terms), it's the same thing.

From my experiences and studies.