Is this a DIR or a proselytization forum?

[Surya Deva]

Btw

You might want to think about that a little.

Often people who make comments about peoples egos, have a bit of ego themselves

I clearly am more knowledgeable than you in Advaita, having studied it deeply for about 15 years and attended the most prestigious institute of Advaita in India and learned under some of the best swamis. So please do not pretend to know Advaita, when you clearly have made wrong statements about it.

 

[Andal]

So just so I'm clear, no one understands Sanatana Dharma or Advaita Vedanta except for Surya Deva? Do I have that right? Btw it's very interesting that you take the name of the deva who caries the sun across the sky.. something you dismiss in another thread.

Aum Hari Aum

 

[Maya3]

Btw



Often people who make comments about peoples egos, have a bit of ego themselves

I clearly am more knowledgeable than you in Advaita, having studied it deeply for about 15 years and attended the most prestigious institute of Advaita in India and learned under some of the best swamis. So please do not pretend to know Advaita, when you clearly have made wrong statements about it.

Dude, you have no idea with whom I'm studying with nor for how long, you just put your foot in your mouth.

Maya

 

[Surya Deva]

So just so I'm clear, no one understands Sanatana Dharma or Advaita Vedanta except for Surya Deva? Do I have that right? Btw it's very interesting that you take the name of the deva who caries the sun across the sky.. something you dismiss in another thread.

Aum Hari Aum

Nah, that is strawman of my position. I have already met on this forum somebody who has a lot of knowledge in Advaita, Shuddasattva, and I am sure there are others. Maya is not what I would consider an Advaitin, based on some of the statements shes made. I wonder how many of the primary texts of Advaita she has even read, as she dons the title. (By the way there is a thread on Advaita in the debate forum where she can post her understandings...)

'Surya Deva' means Sun God. The sun is the best representation for the Self, because the Self is seen as pure light, illumination, knowledge and wisdom. I have chosen the name Sun God because it denotes my essential nature as pure knowledge and it is also the most important God of the Aryan religion, representing my allegiance to the Vedic tradition.

As one of my jewish Kabbalist friends say I am through and through Vedic.

 

[Maija]

My main concern is not the opposing of beliefs, but the spirit behind those beliefs.

You have indicated that you don't feel the need to respect beliefs that are opposing or different to your own but this I see is a problem. Most people respect others beliefs, provided they are not producing negative spiritual effects, I don't see how you should be different.

By respect others beliefs they are able to see compassion and wisdom we are sharing, without it, the light and love we seek to share is drawn dim.

You have wise things to say but I'm at times unconvinced of them, I don't see your joy or happiness in these beliefs..since we're ok with making assumptions on others.

 

[Maya3]

Nah, that is strawman of my position. I have already met on this forum somebody who has a lot of knowledge in Advaita, Shuddasattva, and I am sure there are others. Maya is not what I would consider an Advaitin, based on some of the statements shes made. I wonder how many of the primary texts of Advaita she has even read, as she dons the title. (By the way there is a thread on Advaita in the debate forum where she can post her understandings...)

Um, I'm right here on the thread, what makes you think you can talk about me as if I was not here?

Maya

 

[Surya Deva]

My main concern is not the opposing of beliefs, but the spirit behind those beliefs.

You have indicated that you don't feel the need to respect beliefs that are opposing or different to your own but this I see is a problem. Most people respect others beliefs, provided they are not producing negative spiritual effects, I don't see how you should be different.

Most people actually don't, they only say they do to look politically correct because we live in a world of a political correctness. Do the Vaishnavists respect the Buddhist beliefs, when they clearly have a doctrinal belief that Buddhists have been deceived by their god Vishnu? Did the Muslims or the Portuguese respect the Hindu beliefs when they smashed their temples, raped their women, killed their men and children?

We should be honest we do not respect beliefs different to our own, we only can tolerate them. I live my life true to the principles of my religion and in my religion non-Vedic beliefs are not respected. Shankara did not respect anything that was not Advaita, he actively set out to destroy it.

What we DO need to respect is the right for people to form their own beliefs. And I honestly and sincerely believe in that and would NOT deny anybody that right.

By respect others beliefs they are able to see compassion and wisdom we are sharing, without it, the light and love we seek to share is drawn dim.

You have wise things to say but I'm at times unconvinced of them, I don't see your joy or happiness in these beliefs..since we're ok with making assumptions on others.

Compassion, wisdom, joy and happiness do not come from beliefs, they come from within your own nature. Shankara was a highly enlightened and saintly man, brimming with wisdom, love and compassion, but that did not stop him from going out there and destroying others belief systems. I think debate is brilliant and needs to be encouraged. That is what I am doing here, but as it is not allowed overtly in DIR, I have no problem taking it to the debate forums.

 

[Maija]

That is what I am doing here, but as it is not allowed overtly in DIR, I have no problem taking it to the debate forums.

I think that's a good idea, I agree we should respect established rules.

Shankara was a highly enlightened and saintly man, brimming with wisdom, love and compassion, but that did not stop him from going out there and destroying others belief systems.

That wisdom, love and compassion is a good place to start...wisdom will follow suite. He is a respected example in that way, no one can deny this.

Most people actually don't, they only say they do to look politically correct because we live in a world of a political correctness.

I disagree, but again we can only speak for ourselves and as you indicate, assume for others. This cynicism is what I am picking up on instead of joy. If you're really absolutely sure you've stumbled upon the most perfect, resolute Truth for you- rejoice and embrace it, be happy and well.

Respecting others with different beliefs was how I came to know and love this Hinduism had I not respected beliefs different than mine I wouldn't be here today.

 

[Surya Deva]

Respecting others with different beliefs was how I came to know and love this Hinduism had I not respected beliefs different than mine I wouldn't be here today.

Respecting others and respecting beliefs is completely different things. Beliefs are just ideas, concepts. If I attack an idea or concept, I am not attacking the person. I find certain ideas or concepts irrational, offensive, ridiculous, stupid. If I criticize certain ideas, the person holding these ideas should not take it personally. Hence, if I find Bhakti is not something I can respect, the bhakta should not take it personally.

This idea that we should respect every bodies paths and beliefs, an idea especially promulgated by the bhaktas, is what I meant by the the Dogma of Bhakti. This dogma expects me to by default to respect their beliefs and practices(even if that is worshiping rats!) and also accept it as equally valid to mine, one among many paths to the divine..... err what if do not believe in that dogma? What if I believe there is only one way and one truth, and you either have it or you don't? What if I don't believe in relativism?

I am not a relativist. There is no variation in truth, Truth is one. As truth is one there is only one way or path to the truth.

It is a myth that Hinduism is relativist and accepts all truths as one, and people like Swami Vivekananda and Gandhi are responsible for this politically correct Hinduism. Hinduism has never been historically relativist. It has been incredibly divided with everybody thinking they knew the absolute truth, and ducking it out in formal debates to establish the supremacy of their philosophy. Shankara did exactly the same thing. In fact he made fun of the relativism philosophy of the Jains, likening it to insanity and confusion, where one holds two contradictory positions as equally valid, such a person would not be able tell right from left.

I make no compromises and I am not politically correct: I am through and through Vedic. We have a history of debate and Shankara is the epitome of this.

 

[Surya Deva]

I will start a thread on this subject of many ways or one way in the debate forum, because I don't think it is fair to by default consider all Hindus to respect that all ways are equally valid. Not all Hindus think the same way. Shankara certainly didn't.

 

[Vrindavana Das]

You say you have a lot of knowledge in Advaita. Also, you are through and through a Vedic. Therefore, I suggest you substantiate your views with appropriate scriptures and verses. Without citing appropriate scriptures, what you are speaking is your mind. That cannot be accepted as religion.

Quoting scriptures will make it easier for others to understand your point. Also, it will make your views more credible and acceptable.

 

[Jainarayan]

I'm done with this conversation, it's pointless.

Maya

What took you so long?

 

[beenie]

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