Is this prophecy about Jesus?

[rosends]

Solomon's temple is an internal temple built.

Has all internalized meaning with deep spiritual symbolism and metaphors.

Actually it was a real building. Where people went and did stuff. Kings 1.

 

[Unification]

Actually it was a real building. Where people went and did stuff. Kings 1.

It's outward imagery created by man to mislead. Images images images and mental construes of outward and literal stuff.

Taking it literally, it took 150,000 men 7 years to build something with a floor about the size of a tennis court.

And $50-100 billion dollars worth of gold.

And "there was neither hammer nor axe nor any tool of iron heard in the house, while it was in building.” Was built in silence- still mind.

"God" doesn't dwell in literal buildings. "God" dwells in the brain/mind of ones who are dedicated to building a true altar within themselves. Not vanity, outwardness, material wealth, and control and imagery.

 

[outhouse]

'I will become his father, and he will become my son'? (2 Sa 7:14)" - Hebrews 1:5 with cross references.

You do know the would be Christian communities that wrote the text plagiarized the OT on many different levels?

Some word for word, sometimes just concepts.

Paul did not write Hebrews either, that is a later work by unknown people probably Pauls communities followers

 

[Kolibri]

No, that's not what I'm saying. Although obviously I disagree with all that s well.
I'm saying that this was not a prophecy about who would be sitting on the throne in the future. Its a prophecy that the throne will always belong to the Davidic line. Its a prophecy about Solomon, Rehoboam, Abijah, Asa, Jehoshaphat, etc. That's what I'm saying. Not a prophecy about Jesus. Its about the Davidic line.

I agree, this was about the Davidic line. That it had it's ultimate fulfillment in Jesus (as the last and everlasting king of that line) is presented as such in the Christian Greek Scriptures as at Hebrews 1:5 quoted earlier in the thread.

"In the course of those days, Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee and was baptized in the Jordan by John. And immediately on coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens being parted and, like a dove, the spirit coming down upon him. And a voice came out of the heavens: 'You are my Son, the beloved; I have approved you.'"
- Mark 1:9-11

And at the transfiguration (a vision showing 3 of Jesus close companion's "the Kingdom of God" yet to come) Jesus is seen radiating light as did Moses when he came down from the mountain after communing with Jehovah. "The appearance of his face changed and his clothing became glitteringly white." (Luke 9:29) After after some confusion on the part of the viewers, "a voice came out of the cloud, saying: 'This is my Son, the one who has been chosen. Listen to him.'" (Luke 9:35)

If these passages are to be believed as factual events, then on two different occasions, at his anointing and at a time when Jesus was seen as if he were already enthroned, a personal announcement was made by Jehovah that matches the words of 2 Samuel 7:14a.

The primary idea I got from the OP was "If 2 Sam 7:14a finds its ultimate fulfillment in Jesus as David's last heir, does 2 Sam 7:14b also apply to him? How does that jive with Jesus being presented as a perfect man that did not sin?"

The answer presented was that this prophesy is not exclusively about Jesus but relevant to all the Kings of Judah. 2 Sam 714b was a statement of "when...then", not a statement of "will...then".

 

[Tumah]

I agree, this was about the Davidic line. That it had it's ultimate fulfillment in Jesus (as the last and everlasting king of that line) is presented as such in the Christian Greek Scriptures as at Hebrews 1:5 quoted earlier in the thread.

"In the course of those days, Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee and was baptized in the Jordan by John. And immediately on coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens being parted and, like a dove, the spirit coming down upon him. And a voice came out of the heavens: 'You are my Son, the beloved; I have approved you.'"
- Mark 1:9-11

And at the transfiguration (a vision showing 3 of Jesus close companion's "the Kingdom of God" yet to come) Jesus is seen radiating light as did Moses when he came down from the mountain after communing with Jehovah. "The appearance of his face changed and his clothing became glitteringly white." (Luke 9:29) After after some confusion on the part of the viewers, "a voice came out of the cloud, saying: 'This is my Son, the one who has been chosen. Listen to him.'" (Luke 9:35)

If these passages are to be believed as factual events, then on two different occasions, at his anointing and at a time when Jesus was seen as if he were already enthroned, a personal announcement was made by Jehovah that matches the words of 2 Samuel 7:14a.

The primary idea I got from the OP was "If 2 Sam 7:14a finds its ultimate fulfillment in Jesus as David's last heir, does 2 Sam 7:14b also apply to him? How does that jive with Jesus being presented as a perfect man that did not sin?"

The answer presented was that this prophesy is not exclusively about Jesus but relevant to all the Kings of Judah. 2 Sam 714b was a statement of "when...then", not a statement of "will...then".

Ok, you lost me with all the NT quotes. So I'll just go with your first sentence and assume that essentially you agree with me.

 

[Eileen]

I don't see what the disagreement is there - other than if Jesus did not legally inherit the firstborn right to the kingship. The genealogy recorded at Matthew 1:6-17 traces the legal right through is adoptive father Joseph. (Natural decent thru Mary was shown in Luke 3:23-31).

The issue with Jesus is that prevalent belief that the person that inherited the right would still be human when the representative* kingship would be reestablished.
But Daniel 7:13-14 shows that the rulership would be given in the spiritual heavens by Jehovah himself. A man can no longer be human if he was to survive seeing the face of God.

"I kept watching in the visions of the night, and look! with the clouds of the heavens, someone like a son of man was coming; and he gained access to the Ancient of Days, and they brought him up close before that One.. And to him there were given rulership, honor, and a kingdom, that the peoples, nations, and language groups should all serve him. His rulership is an everlasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom will not be destroyed."
- Daniel 7:13:14

*The Kings of Judah "sat on Jehovah's throne." Their kingship was a representation of Jehovah's authority.
"And Solomon sat on Jehovah's throne as king in place of David his father." - 1 Chron 29:23a

I know you believe that it is so but where ever does is it written in all the Bible that Yosef adopted Yeshua?- exactly nowhere,

 

[Kolibri]

I know you believe that it is so but where ever does is it written in all the Bible that Yosef adopted Yeshua?- exactly nowhere,

What other alternate reason can you show for the account of Jesus' genealogy via Josephs' line to be recorded at Matthew 1:1-17? Why else would it start out as

"The book of the history (or "genealogy.") of Jesus Christ, son of David, son of Abraham." - vs 1

and end with

"Jacob became father to Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born, who is called Christ." - vs 16

?

Why else would people be saying the following?

"And they began saying: 'Is this no Jesus the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, "I have come down from heaven?"'" - John 6:42

"Is this not the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary, and his brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? And his sisters, are they not all with us? Where, then, did he get all this?" - Matthew 13:55,56

"This is a son of Joseph, is it not?" - Luke 4:22b

What is the reasonable conclusion? That as far, as the public eye and the genealogies were concerned, Jesus was Joseph's firstborn. It was only after Jesus began his ministry that people in general heard otherwise.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I'm not sure if context means anything to you as a Christian. But I'd just like to point out that since it was Solomon who built the Temple, we can conclusively say that the "He" and "his" in verse 13 is referring to Solomon. And since no other person is introduced between verses 13 and verse 14, we can conclude that the "him" and "he" of verse 14 is likewise referring to Solomon.

You truly lack in imagination, @Tumah , especially when compared to some here who, with little effort (and less justification), could suck Jesus-prophesy out of a turnip.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I'm anxious to hear your thoughts. I believe it's referring to Jesus.

Believe as you wish.

I suggest that you go to the library and look at The Anchor Bible: II Samuel with commentary by P. Kyle McCarter, Jr., pages 190 through 231.

 

[Kolibri]

You do know the would be Christian communities that wrote the text plagiarized the OT on many different levels?

Some word for word, sometimes just concepts.

Paul did not write Hebrews either, that is a later work by unknown people probably Pauls communities followers

I do know that is what you believe. But if we go there, we will end up going in circles till as @RabbiO posted in another thread recently, we both shout "You're an idiot!" and walk off in different directions.

@RabbiO, I loved that post btw.

 

[moriningstar]

2Sa 7:11-17 (ESVST) . Moreover, the Lord declares to you that the Lord will make you a house. 12 When your days are fulfilled and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring after you, who shall come from your body, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. 14 I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son. "When he commits iniquity, I will discipline him with the rod of men, with the stripes of the sons of men," 15 but my steadfast love will not depart from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away from before you. 16 And your house and your kingdom shall be made sure forever before me. Your throne shall be established forever. '" 17 In accordance with all these words, and in accordance with all this vision, Nathan spoke to David. (emphasis mine)

I'm anxious to hear your thoughts. I believe it's referring to Jesus.

It it were, there would be no more Jews or Muslims.....but there is.

 

[outhouse]

But if we go there, we will end up going in circles till as @RabbiO posted in another thread recently, we both shout "You're an idiot!"

That wont happen. I refuse to bring this debate to a childish level.

I do know that is what you believe

Who cares what you think about how I believe? What I told you IS what is known. It is not up for debate.

 

[Muffled]

2Sa 7:11-17 (ESVST) . Moreover, the Lord declares to you that the Lord will make you a house. 12 When your days are fulfilled and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring after you, who shall come from your body, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. 14 I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son. "When he commits iniquity, I will discipline him with the rod of men, with the stripes of the sons of men," 15 but my steadfast love will not depart from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away from before you. 16 And your house and your kingdom shall be made sure forever before me. Your throne shall be established forever. '" 17 In accordance with all these words, and in accordance with all this vision, Nathan spoke to David. (emphasis mine)

I'm anxious to hear your thoughts. I believe it's referring to Jesus.

I believe it is. The kingdom of Israel ceased to exist until Jesus came an re-established it. If Jesus had not re-established it it would not have been a kingdom forever.

 

[Muffled]

You can make it fit to be anyone you like.

Julius Caesar has a kingdom that lasts forever?

 

[Muffled]

You can make it fit to be anyone you like.

I believe if one takes verses out of context like "my steadfast love will not depart from him" although maybe in another generation Elvis will be forgotten.

 

[Muffled]

It it were, there would be no more Jews or Muslims.....but there is.

I believe that is totally illogical. Jews and Muslims would always find a way to misinterpet scripture to tickle their own fancy. So no matter how logically this appears to be talking about Jesus there will be the nay sayers who say it it isn't.

 

[TheInfiniteLight]

2Sa 7:11-17 (ESVST) . Moreover, the Lord declares to you that the Lord will make you a house. 12 When your days are fulfilled and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring after you, who shall come from your body, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. 14 I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son. "When he commits iniquity, I will discipline him with the rod of men, with the stripes of the sons of men," 15 but my steadfast love will not depart from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away from before you. 16 And your house and your kingdom shall be made sure forever before me. Your throne shall be established forever. '" 17 In accordance with all these words, and in accordance with all this vision, Nathan spoke to David. (emphasis mine)

I'm anxious to hear your thoughts. I believe it's referring to Jesus.

This passage is about Solomon but it relates to Jesus in the way that Jesus comes from the line of David, however, there is no iniquity within Jesus; for Jesus is sinless.

 

[katiemygirl]

|

2Sa 7:11-17 (ESVST) . Moreover, the Lord declares to you that the Lord will make you a house. 12 When your days are fulfilled and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring after you, who shall come from your body, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. 14 I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son. "When he commits iniquity, I will discipline him with the rod of men, with the stripes of the sons of men," 15 but my steadfast love will not depart from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away from before you. 16 And your house and your kingdom shall be made sure forever before me. Your throne shall be established forever. '" 17 In accordance with all these words, and in accordance with all this vision, Nathan spoke to David. (emphasis mine)

I'm anxious to hear your thoughts. I believe it's referring to Jesus.

Is this prophecy about David's descendant Solomon or about his later descendant Jesus? The answer is BOTH!

Building the Lord's house (vs. 13). In one sense, it is Solomon who built the Lord's house when he built the temple at Jerusalem. But Jesus also built a house for God; made of living stones; a spiritual temple; the church of Christ (1 Corinthians 3:16,17; Ephesians 2:19-22; 1 Peter 2:4,5).

 

[12jtartar]

2Sa 7:11-17 (ESVST) . Moreover, the Lord declares to you that the Lord will make you a house. 12 When your days are fulfilled and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring after you, who shall come from your body, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. 14 I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son. "When he commits iniquity, I will discipline him with the rod of men, with the stripes of the sons of men," 15 but my steadfast love will not depart from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away from before you. 16 And your house and your kingdom shall be made sure forever before me. Your throne shall be established forever. '" 17 In accordance with all these words, and in accordance with all this vision, Nathan spoke to David. (emphasis mine)

I'm anxious to hear your thoughts. I believe it's referring to Jesus.

djhwoodwerks,
These scriptures are referring to David. Also, a little later to Solomon, David's son. In the long range reach of this prophecy, it refers to Jesus.
Remember David wanted to build a house for God, but God told him that Solomon would be the one that would the House for God,meaning a Temple. This is related at 2 Samuel 12,13. Verse 11,says that God will make a house for David, then in verse 16 God tells David that his house and Kingdom would be established forever.
The reason God said that his kingdom would last forever is because it was through David's line that Jesus The Messiah, would come. Even though David wanted to build the Temple for God, he was told that he had shed much blood, so it would be his son who would build the Temple, 1Chr 22:8,9.
The Throne was actually Jehovah God's Throne that they were sitting on, 1Chr 29:23. Because the nation of Israel was closely ruled over by God, it was really a Theocracy. In 997BC Solomon died and his son took over the Kingship, but he would not rule right, the twelve tribes of Israel were split and only two tribes remained with Solomons son and ten tribes went North to Samaria, and other kings ruled over them. In 740BC the Assyrians destroyed that kingdom and carried the ten tribe away. These became, what is call the lost tribes.
The two tribes that remained, Judah and Benjamine remained with Solomon's son Rehoboam. The kingship or Throne of Jehovah's was to remain always with the tribe of Judah, Gen 49:10, until Shiloh would come, which was The Messiah, Jesus.
The two tribes that remained kept being unfaithful to God, over and over, until in 607BC God allowed the world power of Babylon, under Nebuchadnezzar, to destroy Jerusalem and the two tribes. This ended the rule about someone on the throne would be from Judah, recorded by Ezekiel, at Eze 21:24-27, because from that time down to 1914, a period of 2.520 years, no one would sit on Jehovah's Throne. This is a prophecy recorded by Daniel in the 4th chapter. The relating of the time until the coming of the one who has the right, as mentioned by Ezekiel, is recorded in Daniel, chapter 4, which tells about a huge tree, which stands for God's Kingdom. This tree was cut down and the stump was banded for seven times 360 days in a prophetic year, times 7 = 2,520 years. This prophecy ended at 1914, when Jesus was given the Kingship over the earth, Rev 6:2. As soon as Jesus was installed on David's throne there was started much troubles, in which the Bible says that Jesus would rule in the midst of his enemies, Ps 110:1. Right after Jesus' enthronement, war broke out in heaven, Rev 12:7, when Satan and his demons were thrown to earth. From that time on there would be much increase in troubles, Rev 12:12, because of Satan being confined to the earth.
Have we not seen an increase of troubles on earth since 1914, WW1. The prophecy in Daniel 4 ending in 1914, was no coincidence!!!

 

[Flankerl]

Hm a Kingdom that never ends...

Imperial House of Japan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Founded 11th February 660 BCE"


Well so much for that Christians!