Is Trump About To Blow His Record Of No New Wars?

[Cooky]

If we threaten them, sanction them, and then send weapons and soldiers to their shores, you still think that they started it?

Do you know the term "sucker punch"?
Tom

It's for the common good of the global community that Iran not gain any power or influence in the world as it currently stands. Many countries agree on this.

I'm all for suppressing tyrannical regimes, especially those who work alongside the Russians, and particularly those who regularly violate human rights as a common practice. Their Sharia tendencies are equally troubling.

 

[Cassandra]

I'm all for suppressing tyrannical regimes, especially those who work alongside the Russians, and particularly those who regularly violate human rights as a common practice. Their Sharia tendencies are equally troubling.

So what is your opinion about Israel and Saudi Arabia?

 

[columbus]

It's for the common good of the global community that Iran not gain any power or influence in the world as it currently stands.

In what way? And how is that worth US blood and treasure to prevent.
It will take quite a huge war to stop Iran and Russia. Is that war "in the common good of the global community"?
I don't think so.

I'm all for suppressing tyrannical regimes, especially those who work alongside the Russians.

You do realize that Trump and Putin are allies, right?

Their Sharia tendencies are equally troubling.

Frankly, I find the conservative Christians in the USA more of a problem to me. Like when Vice President Pence spent years trying to add marriage inequality to our state's Constitution.
Tom

 

[Cooky]

So what is your opinion about Israel and Saudi Arabia?

Israel is a very 'special' case... The West helped establish that with all the best intentions. What resulted, through religious fanaticism, was underestimated.

Saudi Arabia, IMO, should be dropped like a bad habit. Though doing so would embolden their enemies to get all 'ape' over there. It would destabilize the region even further.

 

[Cooky]

In what way? And how is that worth US blood and treasure to prevent.
It will take quite a huge war to stop Iran and Russia. Is that war "in the common good of the global community"?
I don't think so.

Well the Spanish have deployed a carrier alongside the U.S. already. I imagine France, the UK, Australia, Canada and all our other allies will be by our side as always. The West is a powerhouse.

You do realize that Trump and Putin are allies, right?

No.

 

[Revoltingest]

No, I'm only for defending our country. If Iran shoots and destroys our personnel and their carriers, as they just said they will, in free, international waters... Then they will have started war.

And if we attack them in a manner which provokes that?
We're already waging economic warfare in the manner
which played a role in Japan attacking us in WW2.
Also, you're not just arguing self defense...you're
criticizing their being worthy of even existing because
they're "savages".

We should not act in a manner which precipitates war,
even if we can argue that "They started it!".
Remember, we're at their doorstep...they're not at ours.
And we've attacked them before, even with chemical & bio WMDs.
We should stop giving them good reason to want nuclear weapons.


Suppose Iran shot down an Ameristanian airliner killing about 300.
How do you think we'd have responded to that?

 

[Revoltingest]

The problem with fundamentalist ideology (religious or not) is that it creates a supremacist mindset. "We the people of God", "His Chosen One(s)" and "Them the enemies of God", "The Evil". This then creates a double standard, in which the means we use are always justified by the end, and nothing they do can ever find appreciation. If they do the slightest evil, this is proof of their evil, if they do good, it is proof of greater evil, as they are hiding their evil.

As I read in a Talmudic discussion. Even though the pig has fully split hooves, he is actually worse than other animals that have no split hooves at all. Why? Because the pig is not kosher but he tries to hide that from us by having split hooves. This makes the pig the most evil of all!

Replace pigs with Russia, China, Iran, or any other ideological enemy.
No way the pig can defend himself.

Aye, too often we have enemies simply because we treat them as such.

 

[Cooky]

I get that you like them, & hate Iran.
But this doesn't justify attacking Iran....again.
Moreover, Iran was once the kind of country you
liked...very western, until we changed all that.
You'd have us kill people for problems we caused.
Now that is the epitome of savagery.

...Or did Russia ruin them?

 

[Revoltingest]

...Or did Russia ruin them?

Who staged the 1953 coup?

 

[sooda]

It's for the common good of the global community that Iran not gain any power or influence in the world as it currently stands. Many countries agree on this.

I'm all for suppressing tyrannical regimes, especially those who work alongside the Russians, and particularly those who regularly violate human rights as a common practice. Their Sharia tendencies are equally troubling.

Iran is not about the Iranian people.... The Mullahs are notoriously corrupt and powerful right alongside the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps or the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps ( IRGC ) .. take your pick.

Shia clergy are considered infallible... and have an end times scenario as screwy, self destructive and self righteous as our own Rapture Ready nuts.

Israel is NOT blameless in this mess.. The "existential" threat from Iran has always been politically beneficial to the Israeli hard right.

 

[Cooky]

Who staged the 1953 coup?

Why did we stage it? Where was Russia?

 

[sooda]

...Or did Russia ruin them?

Post war Britain needed cheap oil and simply screwed the Iranian people.. Their oil revenue share was something ridiculous like 6% going directly to the Shah.. when every other oil producing country was getting a 50-50 split. Mossadeeg wanted to invest in Iran's future and the people.. When it all shook out, the Mossadeeg was gone and Iran got 13% of oil revenues.

Every American in the Middle East.. Everyone in the oil business knew it was a major FUBAR.. even those who otherwise liked Eisenhower Republicanism.

 

[sooda]

Why did we stage it? Where was Russia?

We staged the coup with a couple million in cash and the help of Kermit Roosevelt and Swartzkoph's father. We even trained their new "gestapo".. the SAVAK.

 

[Cooky]

Post war Britain needed cheap oil and simply screwed the Iranian people.. Their oil revenue share was something ridiculous like 6% going directly to the Shah.. when every other oil producing country was getting a 50-50 split. Mossadeeg wanted to invest in Iran's future and the people.. When it all shook out, the Mossadeeg was gone and Iran got 13% of oil revenues.

Every American in the Middle East.. Everyone in the oil business knew it was a major FUBAR.. even those who otherwise liked Eisenhower Republicanism.

Are you suggesting Russia was in the clear?

 

[sooda]

Are you suggesting Russia was in the clear?

Yeah.. We came all around forcing the Iranians into the arms of the Soviets.. just like we did with Egypt after Operation Susannah and the resulting Suez Crisis.. The Cold War mentality turned stupid which is exactly what is happening again. Trump is such a moron that he decided to undo Obama's nuclear agreement with Iran..

 

[Cassandra]

We

Aye, too often we have enemies simply because we treat them as such.

Well said

 

[Cooky]

Yeah.. We came all around forcing the Iranians into the arms of the Soviets.. just like we did with Egypt after Operation Susannah and the resulting Suez Crisis.. The Cold War mentality turned stupid which is exactly what is happening again. Trump is such a moron that he decided to undo Obama's nuclear agreement with Iran..

Wrong.
in October 1952, Mosaddegh declared Britain an enemy and cut all diplomatic relations.

 

[columbus]

Why did we stage it?

Because we wanted control of their oil reserves.

Where was Russia?

Right across the northern border, helping Iran get on it's feet.

Why did we overthrow a democracy and install a monarch?
Oil.
Tom

 

[columbus]

Wrong.
in October 1952, Mosaddegh declared Britain an enemy and cut all diplomatic relations.

Because Britain was an enemy of the Iranians.
Tom

 

[columbus]

Suppose Iran shot down an Ameristanian airliner killing about 300.
How do you think we'd have responded to that?

Bingo!

Or, to bring this into the present,
Suppose Iran or China or somebody sent a warship to the coast of New York. Would we be "starting something" by responding with belligerence and weapons?
Tom