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Is Trump Fascist Leaning?

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
First if all, let me use a non-partisan source, and that is Wikipedia, starting out with its definition of "fascism":
Fascism... is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy.

Here are some of its characteristics:
According to many scholars, fascism – especially once in power – has historically attacked communism, conservatism, and parliamentary liberalism, attracting support primarily from the far-right.

One common definition of the term, frequently cited by reliable sources as a standard definition, is that of historian Stanley G. Payne. He focuses on three concepts:

  1. the "fascist negations": anti-liberalism, anti-communism, and anti-conservatism [Trump is clearly not a conservative];
  2. "fascist goals": the creation of a nationalist dictatorship to regulate economic structure and to transform social relations within a modern, self-determined culture, and the expansion of the nation into an empire; and
  3. "fascist style": a political aesthetic of romantic symbolism, mass mobilization, a positive view of violence, and promotion of masculinity, youth, and charismatic authoritarian leadership...
Most scholars place fascism on the far right of the political spectrum. Such scholarship focuses on its social conservatism and its authoritarian means of opposing egalitarianism. Roderick Stackelberg places fascism—including Nazism, which he says is "a radical variant of fascism"—on the political right by explaining: "The more a person deems absolute equality among all people to be a desirable condition, the further left he or she will be on the ideological spectrum. The more a person considers inequality to be unavoidable or even desirable, the further to the right he or she will be"...

Fascism promotes the establishment of a totalitarian state. It opposes liberal democracy, rejects multi-party systems and may support a one-party state so that it may synthesize with the nation...

Fascism presented itself as an alternative to both international socialism and free market capitalism. While fascism opposed mainstream socialism, it sometimes regarded itself as a type of nationalist "socialism" to highlight their commitment to national solidarity and unity. Fascists opposed international free market capitalism, but supported a type of productive capitalism. Economic self-sufficiency, known as autarky, was a major goal of most fascist governments...

Fascists criticized egalitarianism as preserving the weak, and they instead promoted social Darwinist views and policies. They were in principle opposed to the idea of social welfare, arguing that it "encouraged the preservation of the degenerate and the feeble."...

One of the most common and strongest criticisms of fascism is that it is a tyranny.[258] Fascism is deliberately and entirely non-democratic and anti-democratic...

Some critics of Italian fascism have said that much of the ideology was merely a by-product of unprincipled opportunism by Mussolini and that he changed his political stances merely to bolster his personal ambitions while he disguised them as being purposeful to the public...

The basis of fascism's support of violent action in politics is connected to social Darwinism. Fascist movements have commonly held social Darwinist views of nations, races and societies. They say that nations and races must purge themselves of socially and biologically weak or degenerate people, while simultaneously promoting the creation of strong people, in order to survive in a world defined by perpetual national and racial conflict...

Economic planning was applied to both the public and private sector and the prosperity of private enterprise depended on its acceptance of synchronizing itself with the economic goals of the state. Fascist economic ideology supported the profit motive, but emphasized that industries must uphold the national interest as superior to private profit...


Now, am I just spouting hyperbole here? Not according to Trump's first wife Ivana, who wrote that he kept NAZI essays on the table next to his bed and that he read them regularly. Trump also wrote in his book "the Art of the Deal that his father taught him that they were descendants of German "warriors and kings" and that he should always remember that. Roy Cohen, of Red Scare notoriety, whom Trump and his father hired to represent them, said that he should always move offensively and never apologize for anything as the latter is a sign of weakness. Trump even admitted that Cohn has had a major influence on him, and one should rather easily see that in his behavior.

One final thing, namely that fascist leaders tended to go in that direction gradually, often using ultra-nationalism and stereotyping and demonizing certain groups, while at the same time claiming that they were defending the religious faith of the country and that they would make the country great again. IOW, the successful ones were excellent at pandering.

So, whaddya think?

 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
No. Trump doesn't believe in anything or hold any ideological values and principles. Fascism is more than just far-right authoritarianism, it's a coherent ideology and worldview, which I doubt Trump is capable of an even elementary understanding of.

Also, a true Fascist would never be a draft dodging coward. They would relish the chance to serve in the military.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
he's a true narcissist - which is a really bad thing - and he's absolutely striving to be a fascist dictator.
 

Stanyon

WWMRD?
So, whaddya think?

I think the democrats don't have much to offer and have to resort to personal attacks and intimations of fascism in their efforts to defeat Trump in 2020, it's what they've been doing since 2016 so why stop now?
There is still hope yet! Bernie Sanders was asked what was going to happen if he debated Trump and Trump highlighted that Sanders had no clue how to pay for all his proposals or how much it was going to cost. Bernie Sanders answer to this? Call him a liar and say he's the most dishonest president ever.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
I think the democrats don't have much to offer and have to resort to personal attacks and intimations of fascism in their efforts to defeat Trump in 2020, it's what they've been doing since 2016 so why stop now?
There is still hope yet! Bernie Sanders was asked what was going to happen if he debated Trump and Trump highlighted that Sanders had no clue how to pay for all his proposals or how much it was going to cost. Bernie Sanders answer to this? Call him a liar and say he's the most dishonest president ever.
Thus illustrating the OP.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I've sussed what's going on with the OP.
All Presidents lean fascist in one way or another.
With Trump, it's...you know...so many behaviors.
Obama quashed whistleblowers.
Bill Clinton tried speech suppression.
All Presidents have their warts.

Yes....some are more fascist leaning than others.
So how does a partisan demonize the other side,
while exculpating his own? Labeling!
Find parallels.
Establish that Trump can be called "fascist".
Ignore one's own tribe's Presidents, thereby sparing them the label.
Hey, presto!
Trump is a fascist.
The only thing left to do is cry "Whataboutism!" when the OP's tactic is exposed.
 

tytlyf

Not Religious
I think the democrats don't have much to offer and have to resort to personal attacks and intimations of fascism in their efforts to defeat Trump in 2020, it's what they've been doing since 2016 so why stop now?
More fiction. A large majority of the republican party is now pushing the party far-right, into Fascism territory. You can tell when someone doesn't know what Fascism means, they'll claim it's the left that's fascist.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
First if all, let me use a non-partisan source, and that is Wikipedia, starting out with its definition of "fascism":
Fascism... is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy.

Here are some of its characteristics:
According to many scholars, fascism – especially once in power – has historically attacked communism, conservatism, and parliamentary liberalism, attracting support primarily from the far-right.

One common definition of the term, frequently cited by reliable sources as a standard definition, is that of historian Stanley G. Payne. He focuses on three concepts:

  1. the "fascist negations": anti-liberalism, anti-communism, and anti-conservatism [Trump is clearly not a conservative];
  2. "fascist goals": the creation of a nationalist dictatorship to regulate economic structure and to transform social relations within a modern, self-determined culture, and the expansion of the nation into an empire; and
  3. "fascist style": a political aesthetic of romantic symbolism, mass mobilization, a positive view of violence, and promotion of masculinity, youth, and charismatic authoritarian leadership...
Most scholars place fascism on the far right of the political spectrum. Such scholarship focuses on its social conservatism and its authoritarian means of opposing egalitarianism. Roderick Stackelberg places fascism—including Nazism, which he says is "a radical variant of fascism"—on the political right by explaining: "The more a person deems absolute equality among all people to be a desirable condition, the further left he or she will be on the ideological spectrum. The more a person considers inequality to be unavoidable or even desirable, the further to the right he or she will be"...

Fascism promotes the establishment of a totalitarian state. It opposes liberal democracy, rejects multi-party systems and may support a one-party state so that it may synthesize with the nation...

Fascism presented itself as an alternative to both international socialism and free market capitalism. While fascism opposed mainstream socialism, it sometimes regarded itself as a type of nationalist "socialism" to highlight their commitment to national solidarity and unity. Fascists opposed international free market capitalism, but supported a type of productive capitalism. Economic self-sufficiency, known as autarky, was a major goal of most fascist governments...

Fascists criticized egalitarianism as preserving the weak, and they instead promoted social Darwinist views and policies. They were in principle opposed to the idea of social welfare, arguing that it "encouraged the preservation of the degenerate and the feeble."...

One of the most common and strongest criticisms of fascism is that it is a tyranny.[258] Fascism is deliberately and entirely non-democratic and anti-democratic...

Some critics of Italian fascism have said that much of the ideology was merely a by-product of unprincipled opportunism by Mussolini and that he changed his political stances merely to bolster his personal ambitions while he disguised them as being purposeful to the public...

The basis of fascism's support of violent action in politics is connected to social Darwinism. Fascist movements have commonly held social Darwinist views of nations, races and societies. They say that nations and races must purge themselves of socially and biologically weak or degenerate people, while simultaneously promoting the creation of strong people, in order to survive in a world defined by perpetual national and racial conflict...

Economic planning was applied to both the public and private sector and the prosperity of private enterprise depended on its acceptance of synchronizing itself with the economic goals of the state. Fascist economic ideology supported the profit motive, but emphasized that industries must uphold the national interest as superior to private profit...


Now, am I just spouting hyperbole here? Not according to Trump's first wife Ivana, who wrote that he kept NAZI essays on the table next to his bed and that he read them regularly. Trump also wrote in his book "the Art of the Deal that his father taught him that they were descendants of German "warriors and kings" and that he should always remember that. Roy Cohen, of Red Scare notoriety, whom Trump and his father hired to represent them, said that he should always move offensively and never apologize for anything as the latter is a sign of weakness. Trump even admitted that Cohn has had a major influence on him, and one should rather easily see that in his behavior.

One final thing, namely that fascist leaders tended to go in that direction gradually, often using ultra-nationalism and stereotyping and demonizing certain groups, while at the same time claiming that they were defending the religious faith of the country and that they would make the country great again. IOW, the successful ones were excellent at pandering.

So, whaddya think?
Can you think of something that Trump actually enacted through policy that would be conducent with fascism?

I hate fascism as much as socialism btw.
 

dianaiad

Well-Known Member
First if all, let me use a non-partisan source, and that is Wikipedia, starting out with its definition of "fascism":

there is NOTHING 'non-partisan' about wikipedia. Good grief, metis!

Wikipedia is a platform, the articles it hosts are written by individuals who are partisan in their own ways. Some are extremely left leaning. Some extremely right leaning. SOME might try for objectivity, but to claim that 'wikipedia' is 'non-partisan' is about as silly a thing as I've seen in awhile.

Each author gets his or her references from somewhere ELSE....and it is that 'somewhere else' that one must check for partisanship. For instance, where did the author of this particular quote get his/her definition of 'fascism"?
snip to end

Of course I object to your obvious attempt to fit Trump into your version of fascism/Nazism, but that's your opinion and your right.
Mostly I object to your portrayal of WIKIPEDIA, of all things, as 'non-partisan.'

don't get me wrong. I love Wikipedia, I used to teach classes on internet research and how to use it. I have a presentation called 'Who's afraid of Wikipedia?" that illustrated precisely how to use it, and for what areas it gives the best information.

but there is no way on God's green earth I would EVER call it 'non-partisan.,' when in fact it's one of THE most partisan sites on the 'net.' It's just that the partisanship shifts with the authors.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Here are some of its characteristics:
According to many scholars, fascism – especially once in power – has historically attacked communism, conservatism, and parliamentary liberalism, attracting support primarily from the far-right.
Fascism has also arisn historically by attacking capitalism, eg, Cuba, USSR.
Populists preached taking from them, & giving to the people....socialism.
Look at the success of avowed socialist Bernie.
Does this mean that Democrats are fascists?
 

Stanyon

WWMRD?
Now, am I just spouting hyperbole here? Not according to Trump's first wife Ivana, who wrote that he kept NAZI essays on the table next to his bed and that he read them regularly.

I have Mein Kampf and Quotations of Chairman Mao Tse Tung on my bedside table along with Moby Dick and I am neither a Nazi, a Communist, or a whaler.

This is an excellent resource, Calvin University is obviously run by Nazis:
Nazi Propaganda (1933-1945)

This one has former East German propaganda as well:
German Propaganda Archive (Guide Page)
 
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Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Probably not unless you want to consider his tweets an act of fascism.

If however Trump starts using the military/law enforcement to suppress the opposition, then you can say I told you so.

If Trump wants to be a fascist his not doing a very good job of it. Any decent fascist would have control over the media and banished the opposition leaders to Mexico by now. Trump is a populist political bully.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Comparing Trump to nazis or fascists is hyperbolic, although he seems to be able to count them among his fans. Trump has also said some things that seem to suggest he admire despots, or at least envies their unbridled authority. On that note, Trump has openly displayed disdain toward checks and balances or anything that would limit overreach.
Is he racist? Perhaps more in an ignorant, drunken uncle "I'm not racist, but..." sort of way rather than in some overt goosestepping sort of way.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Is Trump Fascist Leaning


You tell me:

1. Desire for military parades

2. Browbeats the press and defines it as the enemy of the people

3. Confuses himself with the nation, calling what’s bad for him bad for America.

4. Attacks investigative committees and the intelligence community

5. Attacking vanquished political opponents

6. Attempt to control the flow of information

7. Holding rallies unrelated to campaigning

8. Calling those that disagree with him treasonous and un-American

9. Demanding adulation from his cabinet

10. Admires thuggish strongmen like Putin, Duterte, and Kim Jong Un

11. Nepotism

12. Disregard for the Constitution and the rule of law

13. Expecting government employees and appointees to be loyal to him personally rather than the nation

14. Targeting and demonizing various scapegoated groups

15. Angry nationalism and xenophobia

16. Vastly exaggerate a threat to make people afraid so that they will sacrifice freedoms to him in exchange for unneeded protection

17. The use of executive action to claim powers he doesn’t have

18. Contempt for facts and evidence

19. The destruction of political norms

20. Threats of refusal to leave office when it’s time
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I think the democrats don't have much to offer and have to resort to personal attacks...
Maybe look up the word "hypocrisy" in regards to personal attacks because the person who you continue to support does this all the time.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
No. Trump doesn't believe in anything or hold any ideological values and principles.
But there has to be at least some base that Trump is working from, and since he's been interested in NAZI propaganda according to Ivana, and since he continually has praised "strong leaders", there's is at least a "something there".

However, where I agree with you is that his main brunt is his acute self-centeredness.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Can you think of something that Trump actually enacted through policy that would be conducent with fascism?

I hate fascism as much as socialism btw.
How about his rejection of both the "rule of law" and "checks & balances", such as his refusal to honor subpoenas and his attempted manipulation of our judicial system through his intimidation of witnesses and judges? How about his acute use of stereotyping and history of racism? [ Racial views of Donald Trump - Wikipedia ] Etc.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
there is NOTHING 'non-partisan' about wikipedia. Good grief, metis!

but there is no way on God's green earth I would EVER call it 'non-partisan.,' when in fact it's one of THE most partisan sites on the 'net.'
OK, which political party does Wikipedia favor and please post your evidence?

Secondly, since Wikipedia is so supposedly partisan, then why don't you post non-partisan quotes and their sites to support your point of view? Heck, anyone can badmouth nearly anything as that's all too easy to do, but where's the evidence that goes beyond your outrage?

BTW, over the last few years Wikipedia has been "cleaning up its act", thus trying to avoid what you claim above. In so many cases where they cannot confirm something they'll post "[citations needed]".
 

tytlyf

Not Religious
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