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Is Trump Mentally Well Enough to be President?

Falvlun

Earthbending Lemur
Premium Member
Oh, come on, we both know that virtually any person can be diagnosed with some form of mental illness. Is he a bombastic blowhard? For sure! Mentally ill? Jeeez. So because a bunch of activist psychiatrists, who have not met the man, let alone spent several hours with him diagnosing his symptoms, decide we need to be warned about his possible "dangerous mental illness" is shy of malpractice. It might be fun if Trump's legal team issued a cease and desist order or face a libel/slander lawsuit.

Call me silly, but one thing doctors are simply not supposed to do, is to offer opinions on people that have not actually spent time with running the patient through a battery of tests. A case could be made to have the psychiatrists stripped of their licensees to practice.
Like I said, I don't particularly think that we needed to hear this from "activist" psychologists. It seems readily apparent that Trump reacts in a juvenile, uncontrolled manner, that fits various psychological issues. Whether he actually has these issues is besides the point: he behaves like he does and that's the problem. Either he has a disorder, or dementia, causing him to behave erratically and inappropriately, or he doesn't, and he simply chooses to be like this. Neither choice seems particularly palatable.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The democrats are just as corrupt. I agree. And I hate to say it, but WE HAVE NO CONTROL, anymore. The only remedy we have, now, is to vote out all incumbents, every election, until we get politicians that are willing to take action to stop the corruption

I think that there is no remedy. What you are describing is synonymous with non-democracy. Forget what America calls itself. How does it behave? The sine qua non of democracy is that the people hold the power. and the evidence for that is that their will determines law and policy, or at a minimum, is not disregarded. If you poll the American people and compare it to what its government is doing, you'll find the disparity that toy are calling no control.

One might object and say, "But we hold elections." Still, if you aren't being represented however you vote, the elections are just an meaningless exercise. You might agree with me that if George Washington were alive today and elected president again, he would face an obstructionist Congress and accomplish nothing.

We still see signs of democracy at the local levels of government. The people still get to choose the dog catcher and choose the libraries hours, issues about which the Koch brothers have no interest, but have no say over issues at the national level. Democracy has probably already been lost there already.

Here's the problem with the loss of democracy: You can't recover it with democratic activities like the one you're suggesting: voting. Collecting signatures, writing Congressmen, assembling to protest, running for office, third parties - all fail to make any difference. And you can't expect the people that stole the government to give it back. If you can't take it back, you won't see democracy again.

And you can't take it back as they did in the late 18th century. At that time, it was musket against musket and cannot against cannon. Today, there is no hope of defeating an oppressive American government. While modern day minute men are loading their assault rifles, the government is cutting off their power and water, rolling tanks down their streets, seizing their bank accounts, cancelling their credit cards, and if they feel like it, launching a missile from low earth orbit up your dog's pitoot. As I see it, you'd pretty much need the majority of the military to mutiny, as well as to get most government employees to refuse orders.

So, if what I just described is correct or approaching correct, what to do? I say it's still love it or leave it, where by love I mean accept the new reality and try to adapt to live with it as the people of all unresponsive states do. The government is not there for you and me. it now serves corporate interests. The corporations are its citizens, and the common man capital that serve the corporations and the uberwealthy. Isn't that what the proposed changes in the tax code and the ACA tell us? Poor people with health problems are like a work horse with a broken leg. They have no more inherent value to these people than that.

Yes, I know that that is giving up on America, but only in the spirit of having the courage to change the things we can, accepting what we cannot, and possessing the wisdom to know the difference. We also see the merit of that attitude in hospice, where the sooner one recognizes that a medical problem is not amenable to mitigation or cure, and that all care other than palliative care is futile, the sooner one can switch gears and adopt a more rational approach that optimizes the situation in a way that false hope cannot.

It's my opinion that there really is no reasonable expectation of ever seeing the country of our birth again. Yes, we will all suffer and grieve for our motherland. But acceptance is the fifth and final stage of grief according to Kubler-Ross.

I agree with whomever it was that said that Trump is not the problem. He's just another symptom of a nation with multisystem failure: government, the media, the schools, corporate America, and most importantly, the intellectual and moral reserve of the American people, who 35-40% of which think still approve of Trump. Where is the cavalry coming from? Nowhere, I say.

Too pessimistic? Too defeatist?
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
Too pessimistic? Too defeatist?

Well the smart money is probably with you, but I can't live my life from that orientation, I have to fight back to whatever degree I can.

Voting out incumbents is an interesting piece of a possible solution. And while the entire population needs better education - focusing on the more centrist folks in red states could be a targeted way to shift the balance back towards more a more rational electorate.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
Like I said, I don't particularly think that we needed to hear this from "activist" psychologists. It seems readily apparent that Trump reacts in a juvenile, uncontrolled manner, that fits various psychological issues. Whether he actually has these issues is besides the point: he behaves like he does and that's the problem. Either he has a disorder, or dementia, causing him to behave erratically and inappropriately, or he doesn't, and he simply chooses to be like this. Neither choice seems particularly palatable.

Or maybe, not being a politician that needs the public's validation, he simply doesn't give a big rat's derriere what you think of him. There are some of us out here that aren't too concerned about offending your sensitivities.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Substantiate your claim they're "activists", Paul. Or quite lying that they are. One or the other.
Starting a group called "Duty to Warn"
Dr Gartner, who is also a founding member of Duty to Warn, an organization of several dozen mental health professionals who think Mr Trump is mentally unfit to be president...
Starting a deeply meaningful online petition to have Trump removed from office.
Dr Gartner started an online petition earlier this year on calling for Mr Trump to be removed from office, which claims that he is “psychologically incapable of competently discharging the duties of President”. The petition has so far garnered more than 41,000 signatures.
A petition? Seriously?
I'd call that activist psychotherapy. You're welcome to see it otherwise.

I can't help but wonder how many of these brilliant people have been off their food, under sedation and undergoing counseling for suicidal inclinations since Trump was elected.
 

Falvlun

Earthbending Lemur
Premium Member
I don't see eliminating the electoral college (as unlikely as that is) as doing anything to fix the underlying problems of a broken and corrupt system, and an uneducated and easily manipulated populace. Everything has gotten so twisted and distorted over time, that I don't think most people even have a reasonable understanding of what our government is, what it's supposed to do, and how it's supposed to work. They don't even have a framework for compartmentalizing and conceptualizing government in any realistic or accurate way - or why, fundamentally, our system is a good one, and why it has gone so bad.
I agree it won't fix the underlying problem with the American electorate.

However, I do think it is a solution to a problem that is worthwhile to fix.
 

Falvlun

Earthbending Lemur
Premium Member
Or maybe, not being a politician that needs the public's validation, he simply doesn't give a big rat's derriere what you think of him. There are some of us out here that aren't too concerned about offending your sensitivities.
Seeing as he's an elected official, he probably should care about the opinion of his citizens. He serves at our whim, not his own.

I also think you are shining a turd by dismissing Trump's behavior as merely "offending my sensitivities". You may not agree that he's as odious as the left is making him out to be, fine. But don't disrespect your own intellect by pretending that this is on the scale of normal behavior.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Trump is completely incompetent and ineffectual. He is acting as nothing more than an ongoing distraction while the republican party continues to carry our a quiet coup resulting in our near complete inability to make them do what we need or want, or stop them from doing what we don't need or want. They are rendering themselves autonomous dictators right before or eyes, and we're still not seeing it. We still think our votes matter, when as each day passes, our ability to vote is being diminished, and our actual votes are being rendered irrelevant to the actual outcomes of elections.

Trump is too stupid to do ANY of the absurd things he claims he wants to do. But the corrupt legislature is still very effective, and is busy doing exactly what their corporate bribe-paying sugar daddies want them to do. And what they want them to do is rig the system to rob the rest of us blind, and keep is powerless to stop them. And they are succeeding at this goal by leaps and bounds every single day - while we're all sputtering and complaining about Trump. Who has basically no control even over himself, let alone over the rest of the government.

Trump is not the problem. He's the decoy.
While somewhat overstated in parts, I regard Trump as the epitome of the Republican mind set. They finally have their paragon of Republican philosophy in place and all's right with the world.

.
 

tytlyf

Not Religious
He was unfit decades ago, he's worse the older he gets. Maybe some people didn't know who Trump was prior to the election?
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
I also think you are shining a turd by dismissing Trump's behavior as merely "offending my sensitivities". You may not agree that he's as odious as the left is making him out to be, fine. But don't disrespect your own intellect by pretending that this is on the scale of normal behavior.

Or by pretending that there's any kind of reasonable equivalence.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
Seeing as he's an elected official, he probably should care about the opinion of his citizens. He serves at our whim, not his own.

I also think you are shining a turd by dismissing Trump's behavior as merely "offending my sensitivities". You may not agree that he's as odious as the left is making him out to be, fine. But don't disrespect your own intellect by pretending that this is on the scale of normal behavior.

Excuse me, he does not serve at our whim, he is the duly and legally elected President of the United States. It may help if your turn your apparent sour grapes into some bona fide political activity to get your candidates elected instead of these ad hominem and unfounded attacks against the mental capacity of a person you evidently are never going to accept.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Starting a group called "Duty to Warn"

Starting a deeply meaningful online petition to have Trump removed from office.

A petition? Seriously?
I'd call that activist psychotherapy. You're welcome to see it otherwise.

Ok, you've got a point.

I can't help but wonder how many of these brilliant people have been off their food, under sedation and undergoing counseling for suicidal inclinations since Trump was elected.

Followed by more BS.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
What if he were genuinely mentally deficient or unstable? Should people stay silent and just brace themselves for the impending train wreck?

But the point is that his mental condition up to now is purely subjective and anecdotal grumbling from obvious opponents of Trump. Until there is any clinical proof through medical testing then shouldn't you be as objective to him as you would anyone else? Where's your sense of liberal fairness?
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
He's doesn't have dementia. He is perfectly rational within the operating parameters in his utterly dysfunctional personality. Sometimes the more obvious truth is that someone is not 'eccentric' or has some great master plan, but rather that they are simply broken and operating at at dysfunctional aspect of of a very early stage in development.

It doesn't take hours of deep analysis to see that someone has a serious problem. You want an exact analysis, then run some standardized tests. Until then, you know you're not dealing with someone you should trust. Same as encountering any crazy on the corner. You don't need to wait for a psychiatrist to get away as quick as you can from an unstable person, same as with anyone we'd meet in our circles who was acting like him. That person would be miles away from most people. Why is this even a question, for god's sake?
 
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esmith

Veteran Member
He has the left all-atwitter over his actions. Seems that bodes well for his mental health.
 
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