Is US Flag offensive?

[gnomon]

The flag is not offensive.

Pride in the flag is meaningless.

If the hospital says she can display her flag.....fine.

If the hospital says she cannot display her flag.....fine.

Private companies can very well indeed tell you not to display your property on their property.

I don't have much sympathy for anyone in this case. This woman most likely has a nice home where she can display all the flags she wants. She can slap them all over her car as ignorant patriots are wont to do.

"I find it very frightening because if I can't display my flag," McLucas asked, "what other freedoms will I lose before all is said and done?"

How about she asks the hundreds of thousands of minorities in this nation sitting in a jail or prison for a non-violent drug offense.

How about she asks those homeowners who lost their property to eminent domain in the Kelo v. New London case four years ago to a private developer. Property still sitting abandoned.

How about she asks all the people who have had property seized from them by the state without due process.

How about she get's a clue.

 

[d3vaLL]

This woman needs a hobby. Join the military if you love your country so much. Such a cop-out. The press getting a hold of this "story" told me everything I needed to know about this woman's character. If I cared about this country's reputation, I'd be embarrassed because of her.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Ok, lets try an exercise. If you were the manager in charge of these supervisors what would you have done?

The scenario as we know it.

• Its near the Memorial Day holiday.
• Multiple supervisors share a large area.
• One supervisor brings to work a very large American flag and displays it in her space.
• Another supervisor, an immigrant from Africa, is offended by the flag and throws it onto the floor.

The supervisors come to you for resolution of the issue.

Ok, if I was the manager the first thing I would do is check the employee's manual to see if there is anything about what can be displayed in personal space. Lets say its very vague and the decision is left to me. First, as a manager I would hopefully know if there is anything personal between the two. If this is just petty in fighting I'd deal with it appropriately but lets say their isn't and the African is truly just upset at having to see the US flag. Personally, I think the size of the flag, 3ft by 5ft is too large for an office. I would allow the woman to keep the flag for the remainder of the day but ask her to remove it and if she wished to display a flag to please limit it to an appropriate size. For the African immigrant I would suggest they display their own flag if they wish, also of appropriate size. Also, I would verbally reprimand them for throwing the other supervisors flag on the floor, stressing that it isn't about the flag but respecting other peoples property. Should it happen again it I would put it in their HR record. To me this was the biggest mistake, allowing an employee to do what they want to another employees property is wrong and sends the wrong message to all employees.

 

[Storm]

Ok, lets try an exercise. If you were the manager in charge of these supervisors what would you have done?

The scenario as we know it.

• Its near the Memorial Day holiday.
• Multiple supervisors share a large area.
• One supervisor brings to work a very large American flag and displays it in her space.
• Another supervisor, an immigrant from Africa, is offended by the flag and throws it onto the floor.

The supervisors come to you for resolution of the issue.

Ok, if I was the manager the first thing I would do is check the employee's manual to see if there is anything about what can be displayed in personal space. Lets say its very vague and the decision is left to me. First, as a manager I would hopefully know if there is anything personal between the two. If this is just petty in fighting I'd deal with it appropriately but lets say their isn't and the African is truly just upset at having to see the US flag. Personally, I think the size of the flag, 3ft by 5ft is too large for an office. I would allow the woman to keep the flag for the remainder of the day but ask her to remove it and if she wished to display a flag to please limit it to an appropriate size. For the African immigrant I would suggest they display their own flag if they wish, also of appropriate size. Also, I would verbally reprimand them for throwing the other supervisors flag on the floor, stressing that it isn't about the flag but respecting other peoples property. Should it happen again it I would put it in their HR record. To me this was the biggest mistake, allowing an employee to do what they want to another employees property is wrong and sends the wrong message to all employees.

Sounds fair to me.

 

[Smoke]

Oh, how do you know?

For one thing, they got along so poorly that it was on the news.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

For one thing, they got along so poorly that it was on the news.

The incident made the news, not their relationship. That could just as easily have happened due to someone two cubes over gossiping to the media. I have some rather painful experiences in dealing with the media and know from first hand experience that they get their stories more often than not from sources on the fringe of an event rather than the participants.

 

[sandandfoam]

Ok, lets try an exercise. If you were the manager in charge of these supervisors what would you have done?

The scenario as we know it.

• Its near the Memorial Day holiday.
• Multiple supervisors share a large area.
• One supervisor brings to work a very large American flag and displays it in her space.
• Another supervisor, an immigrant from Africa, is offended by the flag and throws it onto the floor.

The supervisors come to you for resolution of the issue.

I'd have said "Lads -we're here to work. Cop on and don't let the door hit you in the behind on your way out"

 

[Smoke]

The scenario as we know it.

• Its near the Memorial Day holiday.
• Multiple supervisors share a large area.
• One supervisor brings to work a very large American flag and displays it in her space.
• Another supervisor, an immigrant from Africa, is offended by the flag and throws it onto the floor.

The supervisors come to you for resolution of the issue.

Ok, if I was the manager the first thing I would do is check the employee's manual to see if there is anything about what can be displayed in personal space. Lets say its very vague and the decision is left to me. First, as a manager I would hopefully know if there is anything personal between the two. If this is just petty in fighting I'd deal with it appropriately but lets say their isn't and the African is truly just upset at having to see the US flag. Personally, I think the size of the flag, 3ft by 5ft is too large for an office. I would allow the woman to keep the flag for the remainder of the day but ask her to remove it and if she wished to display a flag to please limit it to an appropriate size. For the African immigrant I would suggest they display their own flag if they wish, also of appropriate size. Also, I would verbally reprimand them for throwing the other supervisors flag on the floor, stressing that it isn't about the flag but respecting other peoples property. Should it happen again it I would put it in their HR record. To me this was the biggest mistake, allowing an employee to do what they want to another employees property is wrong and sends the wrong message to all employees.

That's not even what happened. McLucas wasn't even at work; she was off for three days. While she was gone, the African co-worker complained about the flag, and their boss -- not the African co-worker -- wrapped the flag around the flagstaff and laid it on the floor of the boss' office. Nobody, and certainly not the African co-worker, just ripped her flag down and threw it on the floor. McLucas comes back to work, they tell her the flag is in her boss' office and she needs to take it home, she goes in to get it, gets ticked off because it's lying on the floor, and fires off an email to Channel 11. That's according to McLucas' own account.

 

[Smoke]

The incident made the news, not their relationship. That could just as easily have happened due to someone two cubes over gossiping to the media. I have some rather painful experiences in dealing with the media and know from first hand experience that they get their stories more often than not from sources on the fringe of an event rather than the participants.

In this case, they got their story directly from Debbie McLucas.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Ok, if I was the manager the first thing I would do is check the employee's manual to see if there is anything about what can be displayed in personal space. Lets say its very vague and the decision is left to me. First, as a manager I would hopefully know if there is anything personal between the two. If this is just petty in fighting I'd deal with it appropriately but lets say their isn't and the African is truly just upset at having to see the US flag. Personally, I think the size of the flag, 3ft by 5ft is too large for an office. I would allow the woman to keep the flag for the remainder of the day but ask her to remove it and if she wished to display a flag to please limit it to an appropriate size.

Except for asking her to limit the size of the flag, this seems to mesh with what the hospital says happened:

Kindred said "this was simply a dispute between two employees who shared a small workspace, one of whom removed the flag because of its size." Both employees have had family in the military, the statement said.

Hospital management wasn't involved in the removal. McLucas was invited to rehang her flag, the company said.

 

[Smoke]

No, I was wrong. I just watched the interview again, and the flag was apparently on the floor of McLucas' office, not her boss' office.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

That's not even what happened.

We don't know what happened, we only know what the media is saying and apparently there are conflicting reports. Reading the article from the OP gives you the facts as I listed them and my hypothetical response is based on the facts as listed in that article. Do you have a problem with how I handled the hypothetical situation or are you just unhappy with my hypothetical situation in general?

 

[linwood]

Ok, lets try an exercise. If you were the manager in charge of these supervisors what would you have done?

Immediately made a no flag rule.

I don`t have time for this BS where I work.

 

[Smoke]

We don't know what happened, we only know what the media is saying and apparently there are conflicting reports. Reading the article from the OP gives you the facts as I listed them and my hypothetical response is based on the facts as listed in that article. Do you have a problem with how I handled the hypothetical situation or are you just unhappy with my hypothetical situation in general?

I'm unhappy with your hypothetical in general. For one thing, the "facts" it's based on are not from the article. That is, the story doesn't say the co-workers shared a "large" space and it doesn't say the African co-worker threw the flag on the floor. Doesn't say that at all; you imagined both of those things. And while we don't know exactly what happened, we do know exactly what Debbie McLucas says happened, and she says nothing like that. In view of that, I don't think the way you would have handled the imaginary situation you described is irrelevant.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

If something as simple as a country's flag offends you so deeply, why would you make it your home? Perhaps a different country would be a more suitable place for you to live.

 

[Smoke]

If something as simple as a country's flag offends you so deeply, why would you make it your home? Perhaps a different country would be a more suitable place for you to live.

According to Channel 11's reports, the African co-worker has lived in the U.S. for 14 years and has had family members serve in the U.S. military. We have no reason to believe that the co-worker was offended by the flag as such; the co-worker was apparently offended at Debbie McLucas' taking it upon herself to install a flagpole in the office they shared. All this crap about hating America and hating the flag is just spin.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Immediately made a no flag rule.

I don`t have time for this BS where I work.

Is this where you work?

YouTube - Joe Versus the Volcano

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Doesn't say that at all; you imagined both of those things.

Ok, I re-read the article in the OP and your right, I shouldn't have used the term "threw". It said the other supervisor from Africa "placed" the flag and pole on the floor. As for the space being large, the article says the four supervisors are sharing a space. Going by standard cubicle usage in the US, workers get once size, supervisors get a larger size and management gets an office. Four supervisors in one space would be a large space in my opinion. I realise not all offices use the same standards for their cube sizes but I feel justified in making that particular assumption.

Once again, so sorry for using the term threw instead of place.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Ok, I re-read the article in the OP and your right, I shouldn't have used the term "threw". It said the other supervisor from Africa "placed" the flag and pole on the floor. As for the space being large, the article says the four supervisors are sharing a space. Going by standard cubicle usage in the US, workers get once size, supervisors get a larger size and management gets an office. Four supervisors in one space would be a large space in my opinion. I realise not all offices use the same standards for their cube sizes but I feel justified in making that particular assumption.

Except even their employer calls it small:

Kindred said "this was simply a dispute between two employees who shared a small workspace, one of whom removed the flag because of its size."

My sister-in-law's a nurse manager. She doesn't even get a desk of her own; she gets a wheeled set of drawers and use of one desk in a group of small desks, assigned based on who's in the office that day.

 

[gnomon]

Speaking as a manager for a large retail chain where employees do not get any desks at all, have to keep moving and the concept that we all have to work together and no one person really maintains complete ownership (thus not tolerating people getting out of duties by stating it's not their area) here is how I handle such situations.

People have a home where they can display all the flags, posters, religious costuming...anything they want. When they come to work their focus is the job.

I have little sympathy for people working a desk job fretting over all the worthless paraphernalia they can plop around the office. We have five people to work in our small managers office. We don't need photos of children plastered over the walls, flags hanging around, etc. I don't want to see my religious store manager's cross hanging on a wall and I won't put up a poster of Christopher Hitchens giving the finger.

Come work the jobs I've worked where you are on your feet all day and quit whining. We're working for a living.

edit: one caveat. There are some people who pretty much live at their job. I think they can be cut some slack.