Is vegan ethics based on the idea that man is equal or superior to animals?

[psychedelicsoul]

"How can you eat meat? Animals are no different than any of us, we're animals"
"But animals eat animals"
"Well... Yea, but we're humans, we're supposed to be better"

See the problem with this? If humans are equal to animals, then we're under the same ethical responsibility that animals are under... which is basically no ethical responsibility between species. In other words, if animals are equal, then we have no moral obligation to treat them like us because animals don't.
The only way this makes sense is to assume that man is superior to animals and has a moral obligation to never harm them, simply because man is the most evolved and with great evolution comes great responsibility.

 

[Quintessence]

I think that you're simplifying and mischaracterizing the reasons why people become vegans or vegetarians. There is no overarching "vegan ethics" either - being vegan is a choice made by individuals, who have different ethical standards.

 

[allfoak]

being vegan is a choice made by individuals, who have different ethical standards.

I made the choice for health reasons and then began to experience other benefits which i would call spiritual in nature.
As far as ethics go...
I leave that up to the individual.

 

[Rival]

I've never seen a vegan argue this way. I knew a vegan (he was my Teacher) and he did it for health reasons as well as ethical reasons. The ethical reasons mostly revolved around the treatment of the animals (battery farms etc.), how the environment is better off with humans being at least vegetarian. The health reasons came into it a lot, about how humans don't need to eat meat and how we can't digest milk and so on. It's not as simple as you seem to think it is.

 

[Quintessence]

I've never seen a vegan argue this way. I knew a vegan (he was my Teacher) and he did it for health reasons as well as ethical reasons. The ethical reasons mostly revolved around the treatment of the animals (battery farms etc.), how the environment is better off with humans being at least vegetarian. The health reasons came into it a lot, about how humans don't need to eat meat and how we can't digest milk and so on. It's not as simple as you seem to think it is.

This has been my experience as well in listening to these folks. I'm neither vegan or vegetarian, but I make food purchases governed by similar principles, and thus don't have a lot of meat in my diet.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

I never understood it. If it's about avoiding taking life, what about the plant? Plants are living things, too. I suppose the only thing you could do be a fruitarian but you'd be rather malnourished. Even some vegans and vegetarians I know are malnourished. They say we're not designed to eat meat which never made sense. A tiger is not meant to eat berries. We can eat meat and vegetables, making us omnivores. Some do it to lose weight, which does help but I find it unnecessary as I've lost weight without having to give up meat or sweets.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

"How can you eat meat? Animals are no different than any of us, we're animals"
"But animals eat animals"
"Well... Yea, but we're humans, we're supposed to be better"

See the problem with this? If humans are equal to animals, then we're under the same ethical responsibility that animals are under... which is basically no ethical responsibility between species. In other words, if animals are equal, then we have no moral obligation to treat them like us because animals don't.
The only way this makes sense is to assume that man is superior to animals and has a moral obligation to never harm them, simply because man is the most evolved and with great evolution comes great responsibility.

It's not often I come across a novel point, I hadn't noticed that contradiction before-

I can 'empathize with the empathy' of vegetarianism, and I don't understand the pleasure of hunting, killing animals- but I'd tend to go with the Biblical rationale that we are given dominion over the animals, and the Earth's resources, they are there for our use. Seems kinda rude to turn your nose up at it!

 

[George-ananda]

I am a vegetarian primarily because of the Hindu teaching of ahimsa (non-violence). As I can see the arguments of both sides my main tipping point was the teachings of eastern spiritual masters whose opinion I respect most. As we can apparently live just as (or probably more) healthfully eating an intelligent vegan diet then the advantages of meat are just to please the pallet. The lives of farmed animals are not natural or desirable to them and ends in death which includes the sense of terror.
Plus the environmental footprint left by seven billion meat-eaters (versus seven billion vegans) is tremendously larger. I have heard it takes seven pounds of grain to make a pound of meat and you must also consider the fresh water requirements to make all that extra grain.

Even beyond the animal suffering and environmental impact those who study man's super-physical bodies (etheric, astral, mental) tell us the vibrations associated with killed meat is detrimental to our super-physical well-being. This last point is of note only to those who (like myself) believe man is composed of more than the physical body.

 

[Father Heathen]

I'm not a vegan, but one of the explanations I've heard is that, unlike other animals, humans are capable of understanding the suffering and death caused by consuming other sentient creatures. Also, unlike other animals, humans have a choice in the matter. So from their perspective, knowingly causing the suffering and death of other living creatures when unnecessary is unethical. Even though some of them can be rather sanctimonious with their views, I think at the core it's more to do with empathy than with ego.

 

[metis]

Einstein felt that the single greatest danger to the planet was meat-eating-- although that was before the development of nukes, I believe.

 

[Father Heathen]

It's not often I come across a novel point, I hadn't noticed that contradiction before-

I can 'empathize with the empathy' of vegetarianism, and I don't understand the pleasure of hunting, killing animals- but I'd tend to go with the Biblical rationale that we are given dominion over the animals, and the Earth's resources, they are there for our use. Seems kinda rude to turn your nose up at it!

It would only be "rude" if they believed the biblical view. For those who don't, scripture is irrelevant. Hindus forbid the consumption of beef, but as someone who isn't Hindu, is that going to stop you from eating a steak or burger?

 

[Father Heathen]

One group of people who really annoy me are those who denounce hunting as cruel and barbaric, yet still have no qualms with consuming meat from industrial farms and slaughterhouses.
I'm fairly certain that the industrial farms and slaughterhouses offer a far more horrifying experience and agonizing existence for the animals involved compared to the wild animals that live free in their natural environment until their swift end via gun or bow.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I never understood it. If it's about avoiding taking life, what about the plant? Plants are living things, too. I suppose the only thing you could do be a fruitarian but you'd be rather malnourished. Even some vegans and vegetarians I know are malnourished. They say we're not designed to eat meat which never made sense. A tiger is not meant to eat berries. We can eat meat and vegetables, making us omnivores. Some do it to lose weight, which does help but I find it unnecessary as I've lost weight without having to give up meat or sweets.

It's about not inflicting pain and suffering on creatures for no reason - plants can't feel pain as they have no nervous system. I don't agree that with vegans who say we're not designed to eat meat - after all if we can derive nutrition from it then clearly we can eat it - but I agree that with the state of factory farming as it is, we really should be cutting back.

 

[Eliab ben Benjamin]

I became a Vegetarian at age 10, my parents took me from the big city to the rural countryside, where i saw baby lambs for the first time, and later on my plate the
2 lamb chops ran up the hill of mashed potatoes and fell down dead in the valley of
peas. ... made me feel like a murderer so i stopped eating animals ..

Many subsequent fights with my father but to this day nothing requiring slaughter crosses
my lips ... lol had a problem for a few years with killing plants that required digging up
so it was fruit and nuts only , but i got over that ..

 

[jeager106]

All the males in my family were meat eating hunters as was (am) I.
My parents lived in the country, raised a beef steer every year, couple hogs,
chickens, rabbits & such.
I still hunt for meat a bit.
We were taught never, ever, kill an animal (vermin not included) that we did use (eat).
We often had to dispatch garden destroying groundhogs and ate them also.
Animals were put here for our use, not abuse.
I still relish squirrels as the treat they are. Yum.

 

[Sees]

All the males in my family were meat eating hunters as was (am) I.
My parents lived in the country, raised a beef steer every year, couple hogs,
chickens, rabbits & such.
I still hunt for meat a bit.
We were taught never, ever, kill an animal (vermin not included) that we did use (eat).
We often had to dispatch garden destroying groundhogs and ate them also.
Animals were put here for our use, not abuse.
I still relish squirrels as the treat they are. Yum.

You're from the same hillbilly stock as I am

------------------------------------

I eat mostly vegan and I have talked to a lot of vegans who are into it as a religious/spiritual/philosophical lifestyle. Some are shocked or have a sense of disappointment (anger even) to hear of others who don't do it 24/7 each meal/snack, who buy leather or cosmetics tested on animals, who don't support "the cause", etc.

I think people should just explore the issues others bring up and not worry about necessarily picking a side, if they actually want to learn and think for themselves. Pigeonholing and straw-manning is so prevalent you have to look hard for rare bits of data and info without agenda (good luck).

 

[psychoslice]

Well why do animals eat meat ?.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

One group of people who really annoy me are those who denounce hunting as cruel and barbaric, yet still have no qualms with consuming meat from industrial farms and slaughterhouses.
I'm fairly certain that the industrial farms and slaughterhouses offer a far more horrifying experience and agonizing existence for the animals involved compared to the wild animals that live free in their natural environment until their swift end via gun or bow.

farms offer a swift end, hunting does somewhat, but nature alone? certainly not

any clean hunting kill is obviously a merciful end compared with aging, starving, and predators

But I don't find pleasure in that, any more than I would having a pet put down, even if it's the right thing to do- if you take my point on the distinction here

 

[Theweirdtophat]

It's about not inflicting pain and suffering on creatures for no reason - plants can't feel pain as they have no nervous system. I don't agree that with vegans who say we're not designed to eat meat - after all if we can derive nutrition from it then clearly we can eat it - but I agree that with the state of factory farming as it is, we really should be cutting back.

Well a good farmer wouldn't have creatures that would suffer, if they were free to roam and weren't caged and didn't torture them when trying to eat them. If you're a good farmer, you won't have creatures that will suffer before they die and are used for meat. I've known vegans and vegetarians that had to go back to meat for certain health reasons so we are definitely designed to eat meat. If we weren't we wouldn't eat it in the first place. A tiger won't eat celery or onions because it's not designed to digest it.

 

[allfoak]

Well why do animals eat meat ?.

Because people eat "meat".
When we stop the animals will stop.