Is Vegetarianism integral to a moral life.

[Comicaze247]

The worlds natural resources are being depleted at a fast rate due to meat eating.

Seriously, I think you're stretching things quite a bit on this. It seems to me that it's more because we're using so many machines that we're depleting the world's natural resources. We have so many different kinds of vehicles and machines and we have a lot of them. It's not just eating meat.

Raising livestock for meat is not very efficient in feeding the world. Half of all water used in America goes into livestock production.

This, I agree with (though where are you getting these statistics?)

56% of farm land in the USA is used for beef prodution. To make 1 pound of beef it takes 16 pounds of edible grain and soybeans.

Again, where are you getting these statistics?

 

[sandandfoam]

We'd sooner strip all the rocks from the moon. We know less about the ocean than we do the surface of the moon.

You're wrong. Overfishing has been/is a huge problem. Look at the collapse of cod stocks in the North Atlantic.
BBC NEWS | Europe | Scientists urge North Sea cod ban

 

[Surya Deva]

Hi Want To be Hindu,

Somebody once said, "If we don't stop killing animals, we won't stop killing each other" this sums up my views on vegetarianism. The propensity that exists within us that makes us kill others is the same propensity that makes us crave meat. It is a part of our evolutionary history, when we did need to subsist on meat, but this was also when we were violent and predatorial creatures and barely had any moral understanding. So to answer your question, no you cannot live a moral life and still eat meat, because you keep that primitive propensity alive. In Yoga this is also reiterated, it is categorically stated that one will not reach higher stages of spirituality if they continue non-vegetarian lifestyles.

A few have asked why are we omnivorous then? We are omnivorous because we are not instinctual creatures, we have rationality, which means we can exercise far greater choice than animals. We can choose between good and bad. The fact that we have this choice makes us think we are omnipotent and do anything we like. That also means declaring yourself as hegemon of the world and killing animals for ones enjoyment. Many of us take great pride in our choice, we declare, "It's not bad, if I have the option to do it" or translated in terms of the context of this thread, "I am omnivorous, which means I can eat what I want" On the surface it does seem as if we have free will and we are living in a chaotic univese, but go deeper and you realise that there are deterministic forces and fundamentals laws operating, which will make the outcomes of choices we make beneficial or harmful to us. Meat-eating is one of the choices that are harmful for us and this is born out in the amount of disease associated with meat-eating, salmonella poisoning, mad cow disease, and the ecological imbalance that is taking place in the world, but the greatest harm is subtle, it affects ones intuitive abilties and prevents access to our higher mind.

Non-vegetarianism is a destructive activity and emphasises a regressive part of us and thus can never be a part a spiritual and moral life.

 

[Azakel]

I'm sorry, all I see here in this thread is a "We better then you are because we don't eat meat". You might not mean that, but by the way it going about it sure is coming of like that.

 

[Willamena]

I'm sorry, all I see here in this thread is a "We better then you are because we don't eat meat". You might not mean that, but by the way it going about it sure is coming of like that.

But that's the topic: the evidence that eating vegetarian is inherently better.

 

[Green Gaia]

I think whatever we choose to eat we should do it in a mindful and sustainable way in regards to our bodies and the environment (animals, plants and the earth).

 

[UnTheist]

Non-vegetarianism is a destructive activity and emphasises a regressive part of us and thus can never be a part a spiritual and moral life.

Humor quote of the day.

 

[ranjana]

I'm sorry, all I see here in this thread is a "We better then you are because we don't eat meat". You might not mean that, but by the way it going about it sure is coming of like that.

im sorry you see that here! I think it is more like 'we dont eat meat, this is why....', and wondering why people defend eating meat. i am not condemning people that do; there are many farms ive lived on that support themselves and their communities with raising animals for meat and milk and eggs... it is more the large scale farming practices around the world that destroy the natural ecosystems and we wonder why do people demand meat if this is the consequence?

if one could eat local meat raised with sustainable practices I couldnt criticize, but as it stands, we have a duty to criticize!

 

[want to be hindu]

Seriously, I think you're stretching things quite a bit on this. It seems to me that it's more because we're using so many machines that we're depleting the world's natural resources. We have so many different kinds of vehicles and machines and we have a lot of them. It's not just eating meat.

Read this from the food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations

29 November 2006, Rome - Which causes more greenhouse gas emissions, rearing cattle or driving cars?

Surprise!

According to a new report published by the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization, the livestock sector generates more greenhouse gas emissions as measured in CO2 equivalent – 18 percent – than transport. It is also a major source of land and water degradation.

look at this website
Livestock a major threat to environment

where are you getting these statistics?

I have quoted from two sources the FAO of the UN and a book called Diet for a New America that was a nominee for a Pulitzer Prize. There are many studies that back up the findings of my sources.

Dear Comicaze I dont want anyone to feel bad about this argument. It just seems to me that there are a truck load of facts on this subject that are not getting out to the public. So please forgive me if I seem so aggressive.

 

[UnTheist]

But that's the topic: the evidence that eating vegetarian is inherently better.

Isn't that true, though.

 

[want to be hindu]

I think a better analogy for humans would be bears.

I think Chimps are the best analogy they are close relatives of ours. Bears are able to break down bones in digestion humans are not.If we eat rotting meat like a bear we would die. ( Brown Bears not Pandas )

 

[Comicaze247]

You're wrong. Overfishing has been/is a huge problem. Look at the collapse of cod stocks in the North Atlantic.
BBC NEWS | Europe | Scientists urge North Sea cod ban

I think that's more of an issue of moderation rather than eating meat altogether.

The "more and bigger = better" lifestyle of the United States (and I'm sure other countries) is what is causing this sort of problem. Honestly, we don't need to be eating this much meat to survive. The average American eats twice as much meat as they need in a day. On top of that, America was the center of the Industrial Revolution, which just strengthens the "more and bigger = better" mentality. It's all about profit profit profit, excess excess excess. Also, with the invention of actual freezers and refrigerators (not just iceboxes) came the ability to stockpile food, and especially meat. Honestly, I think we wouldn't have this problem if everybody had to catch and kill their own food. And compare European countries to the U.S. The U.S. has such excessively large portions of food and many many cars. European countries have much smaller portions (and therefore much less processed food) and walk everywhere, which reduces the amount of greenhouse gasses and promotes better overall fitness and health.

The underlying problem isn't eating meat. It's the lack of moderation. But I suppose professing moderation to people isn't as easy as professing a vegetarian diet.

 

[want to be hindu]

But I suppose professing moderation to people isn't as easy as professing a vegetarian diet.

I think it is not easy to give up all meat I come from a family of hunters. People get angery when you tell them you wont eat turkey for thanksgiving. I think it is much easier to eat meat in moderation maybe 2 or 3 times a week. When my wife has an all day meeting at work 1/2 the time she cant eat because people forget to get vegetarian food. My son cant eat hot lunch at school because he is a vegetarian.I dont think people who eat meat are bad. Just like when I am driving my car I am not a bad person. My friends who dont own a car I think high of them because they are living in a way that they are giving all of us a gift. Just like vegetarians are giving you a gift by using less of our mother. (Earth)

One of my goals in the spiritual life is to give more then I take. I fail in my quest much of the time. I do believe that being a Vegetarian helps me on this path.

 

[Surya Deva]

I don't preach vegetarianism either to my friends, though they do quiz me a lot about it. I recognise that everyone of us are on different levels of our spiritual evolution, and thus just as I cannot fault an animal that eats meat, likewise I cannot fault a human who is still closer in evolution to an animal. Perhaps this does sound like vegetarians are inherently better or at least more evolved, but that's the point of this thread isn't it?

 

[dawny0826]

Hinduism is a big tent of many beliefs I can not tell you what all Hindus believe.

This is what I believe. I try not to engaging in unnecessary violence. Sometimes we must kill animals for self protection or the good of the environment .

Fair enough. Thanks.

 

[Azakel]

im sorry you see that here! I think it is more like 'we dont eat meat, this is why....', and wondering why people defend eating meat. i am not condemning people that do; there are many farms ive lived on that support themselves and their communities with raising animals for meat and milk and eggs... it is more the large scale farming practices around the world that destroy the natural ecosystems and we wonder why do people demand meat if this is the consequence?

if one could eat local meat raised with sustainable practices I couldnt criticize, but as it stands, we have a duty to criticize!

I defend it because it has worked for me and my ancients ^_^

I agree that we as a people have really messed up this world with what we have done.
I myself have never lived on a farm but I understand what you mean with the way they live off it and all.
I myself do eat local meat that is free ranged, no steroids or anything. Cost more money though but I like it. Hard to get my mom to do it more often.

 

[Azakel]

I cannot fault a human who is still closer in evolution to an animal.

We are animals.

 

[Surya Deva]

Humans have passed the animal stage of evolution. They are no longer like animals. They operate from a different dharma - human dharma. While it is OK for an animal to kill other animals for food, it is not OK for a human to do the same, because it goes against their dharma.

 

[jashin]

Hi i'm new,i'm a 10 year old boy.Is vegetarianism good?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Humans have passed the animal stage of evolution. They are no longer like animals. They operate from a different dharma - human dharma. While it is OK for an animal to kill other animals for food, it is not OK for a human to do the same, because it goes against their dharma.

There are those pesky herbivores, though. They are also animals.

In the words of Michael Stipe, "Hey, what's the big deal? I'm an animal!"