Is Yahweh A Liar? Yes, He Is. I Can Prove It.

[We Never Know]

Yahweh is okay when he makes grand sweeping prophecies that he will do things that are described in vague opaque terms like, "And I will bring forth great suffering on the inhabitants of the earth for they have done evil in my sight. I the Lord have spoken." Well, duh! We've seen people suffering every day since hominids stood upright. But when Yahweh gets real specific then he has a way of tripping all over himself.

Yahweh lied to no less than three prophets in the Old Testament that he would dry up the Nile river and he never did.

"I will dry up the streams of the Nile and sell the land to evil men; by the hand of foreigners I will lay waste the land and everything in it. I the LORD have spoken." Ezekiel 30:12

Never happened.

"...the river shall be wasted and dried up. The fishermen will groan and lament, all who cast hooks into the Nile." Isaiah 19:5,8

Never happened.

"They shall pass through the sea of Egypt, and the waves of the sea shall be smitten and all the depth of the Nile dried up." Zechariah 10:11

The Nile never dried up.

Christians invent all sorts of excuses for God's failure to keep his word. One says, "Well, these are metaphoric. God means he will figuratively dry up the Nile." What???? Another says, "Well, God is really saying that he will dry up the tributaries of the Nile, not the Nile itself."

To that I have a very succinct explanation of why that is erroneous:

The original Hebrew text simply uses the plural form of the word for "Nile" (Ye'or), hence literally the "Niles", likely referring to the various stretches of the river, or the Blue Nile and the White Nile that at one point run together. The plural "Niles" cannot be stretched to mean mere tributaries that would not be considered part of the Nile proper at all. A few other respected translations make this passage a bit more clear:

• "I will dry up the waters of the Nile and sell the land to an evil nation. I the LORD have spoken," New International Version
• "I will dry up the Nile River and sell the land to wicked men. I, the LORD, have spoken!" New Living Translation

Then there's always that old chestnut any apologist can fall back on when all else fails.

"It's a future prophecy yet to be fulfilled."

Come on!

Before anything can be proven a liar, you first need to prove it exist. If you can't show it exists, then how can you prove its a liar?

 

[Trailblazer]

Do you really believe that Jesus has not been given dominion over the earth?

Philippians 2:9-12.
'Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.'

Jesus was given dominion over the earth, during the days when He walked the earth, but after that Jesus left the earth and ascended to heaven and Jesus was given dominion in heaven.

John 12:27-31 New International Version (NIV)

27 “Now my soul is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour. 28 Father, glorify your name!”

Then a voice came from heaven, “I have glorified it, and will glorify it again.” 29 The crowd that was there and heard it said it had thundered; others said an angel had spoken to him.

30 Jesus said, “This voice was for your benefit, not mine. 31 Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out.

Jesus was referring to Himself as prince of this world and that the voice came from heaven, “I have glorified it, and will glorify it again” refers to Baha'u'llah, who was the “return” of the Christ Spirit, thus the return of the prince of this world.

“Thou didst ask as to chapter 14, verse 30 of the Gospel of John, where the Lord Christ saith, ‘Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the Prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in Me.’ The Prince of this world is the Blessed Beauty; and ‘hath nothing in Me’ signifieth: after Me all will draw grace from Me, but He is independent of Me, and will draw no grace from Me. That is, He is rich beyond any grace of Mine.” Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Before anything can be proven a liar, you first need to prove it exist. If you can't show it exists, then how can you prove its a liar?

Astute observation!

 

[Redemptionsong]

I don't believe Jesus said the great discourse--four chapters of straight talking by jesus in John chap 14-17. Come on, no 90 year old's memory is that good. I'll bet you can't remember everything you said last sunday.

It's true, I can't remember a thing...

BUT, the coherence and consistency of the biblical message, prophesied over a period of about 1500 years, helps us to distinguish the word of God from the word of man.

As it says in 2 Timothy 3:16, 'All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:'

If it were down to John's aged brain we would probably not have the words set out as they are, but the words of prophecy burn on the lips of prophets. The Bible is not the work of man, but a revelation from God.

 

[Redemptionsong]

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many = Jesus
and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation = Baha’u’llah
(without sin because Jesus already died for our sins).

This is so blatantly false that it beggars belief that you can countenance such deception!

What you appear to be saying here is that Jesus, who was born in Bethlehem, reappeared spiritually in another man's body on earth in 1844. But the scriptures don't give us any indication that Jesus will return to earth in this manner. The Messiah only dwells on earth in flesh and blood ONCE. The Messiah appears a second time in glory, not in flesh and blood.

Hebrews 9:26,27. 'For then must he [Christ] often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:' [Christ is not born a second time]

Add to this a prophecy from Zechariah which has not yet been fulfilled, and you will see that the Messiah has not yet appeared a second time.

'And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and they shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.'

 

[Redemptionsong]

Jesus was given dominion over the earth, during the days when He walked the earth, but after that Jesus left the earth and ascended to heaven and Jesus was given dominion in heaven.

It gets worse!

Jesus was pronounced a king on earth on his dying day, when the words, Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews, were written above his head at the time of crucifixion. This was said in mockery, but forty three days later the Holy Spirit was sent from heaven, a sign that Jesus had been given dominion over both heaven and earth [see Daniel 7:13,14]. Jesus Christ had become the head over a body on earth, a body united by the Comforter, the Holy Spirit.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Jesus was referring to Himself as prince of this world and that the voice came from heaven, “I have glorified it, and will glorify it again” refers to Baha'u'llah, who was the “return” of the Christ Spirit, thus the return of the prince of this world.

PLEASE, NO!

1 Corinthians 2:7,8. 'But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would have not have crucified the Lord of glory.'

Who, tell me, are the 'princes of this world'?! Only the adversaries of God would go out of their way to destroy God's plan of salvation!!

YOU'RE NOW CLAIMING THAT JESUS WAS AN ADVERSARY OF GOD!

 

[leroy]

You would need to show that the same James agreed with Paul, and even so they are no longer independent sources. This was explained to you. I doubt if you understood the explanation.

You would need to show that the same James agreed with Paul, and even so they are no longer independent sources. This was explained to you. I doubt if you understood the explanation.

Irrelevant;

It is still true that James had a close relationship with Jesus (which implies that he is likely to know if Jesus was buried or not)

And Paul knew James.

Therefore Paul was in a position to know if Jesus was buried or not, therefore Paul is a reliable source.

Why would you affirm that Paul is an unreliable source? Why are you avoiding this question?

 

[leroy]

Jesus didn't say the things attributed to him.

You mean everything? Or are you talking about specific verses?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Irrelevant;

It is still true that James had a close relationship with Jesus (which implies that he is likely to know if Jesus was buried or not)

And Paul knew James.

Therefore Paul was in a position to know if Jesus was buried or not, therefore Paul is a reliable source.

Why would you affirm that Paul is an unreliable source? Why are you avoiding this question?

Nope. All you have are unjustified assumptions until you do so.


And you have your burden of proof backwards. You need to show that Paul is a reliable source in the first place. But can I demonstrate that he is unreliable? Yes I do believe that I can.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

It's true, I can't remember a thing...

BUT, the coherence and consistency of the biblical message, prophesied over a period of about 1500 years, helps us to distinguish the word of God from the word of man.

As it says in 2 Timothy 3:16, 'All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:'

If it were down to John's aged brain we would probably not have the words set out as they are, but the words of prophecy burn on the lips of prophets. The Bible is not the work of man, but a revelation from God.

Song, all this is just

You mean everything? Or are you talking about specific verses?

According to the Jesus Seminar about 80% he did not say.

Seminar Rules Out 80% of Words Attributed to Jesus : Religion: Provocative meeting of biblical scholars ends six years of voting on authenticity in the Gospels.

 

[Trailblazer]

Seminar Rules Out 80% of Words Attributed to Jesus : Religion: Provocative meeting of biblical scholars ends six years of voting on authenticity in the Gospels.

So much for the famous "I am the only way" verse.

And so much for "and after three days he will rise again."

THE REJECTED SAYINGS

The Jesus Seminar, a six-year project based in Sonoma to assess the historical authenticity of sayings attributed to Jesus, concluded that about half were words put into his mouth by Gospel authors and early believers in reflection of their own hopes and fears. Among the sayings rejected were the following:

John 3:16: “For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life.”

John 14:6: “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

Mark 13:25, 30: (A series of apocalyptic sayings) “Then they will see ‘the Son of Man coming in the clouds’ with great power and glory. . . . Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place.”

Matthew 5:11: “Blessed are you when people revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account.”

Mark 10:32-34: “See, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be handed over to the chief priests and the scribes, and they will condemn him to death; then they will hand him over to the Gentiles; they will mock him, and spit upon him, and flog him, and kill him; and after three days he will rise again.”

 

[leroy]

Nope. All you have are unjustified assumptions until you do so.


.

Ok so exactly what unjustified assumption am I making, so that I can justify it.

you need to show that Paul is a reliable source in the first place

I already did, Paul is reliable because we knew James and some of the apostles, given that they had a close relationship with Jesus, they were in a position to know if the body was buried or not………Paul had access to good sources of information.

And you have your burden of proof backwards. Y. But can I demonstrate that he is unreliable? Yes I do believe that I can

Ok then please provide your demonstration.

 

[leroy]

According to the Jesus Seminar about 80% he did not say.

Seminar Rules Out 80% of Words Attributed to Jesus : Religion: Provocative meeting of biblical scholars ends six years of voting on authenticity in the Gospels.

Even if true, it doesn’t follow that Christianity is wrong, at most it follows that some doctrines might be wrong or misinterpreted.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Even if true, it doesn’t follow that Christianity is wrong, at most it follows that some doctrines might be wrong or misinterpreted.

What do you mean by Christianity is wrong?

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

So much for the famous "I am the only way" verse.

And so much for "and after three days he will rise again."

THE REJECTED SAYINGS

The Jesus Seminar, a six-year project based in Sonoma to assess the historical authenticity of sayings attributed to Jesus, concluded that about half were words put into his mouth by Gospel authors and early believers in reflection of their own hopes and fears. Among the sayings rejected were the following:

John 3:16: “For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life.”

John 14:6: “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

Mark 13:25, 30: (A series of apocalyptic sayings) “Then they will see ‘the Son of Man coming in the clouds’ with great power and glory. . . . Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place.”

Matthew 5:11: “Blessed are you when people revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account.”

Mark 10:32-34: “See, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be handed over to the chief priests and the scribes, and they will condemn him to death; then they will hand him over to the Gentiles; they will mock him, and spit upon him, and flog him, and kill him; and after three days he will rise again.”

Yes, it was an in-depth analysis led by...ta da!...Christians! hard to believe, I know but Christians made up the entire panel.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Ok so exactly what unjustified assumption am I making, so that I can justify it.


I already did, Paul is reliable because we knew James and some of the apostles, given that they had a close relationship with Jesus, they were in a position to know if the body was buried or not………Paul had access to good sources of information.

If you are going to be silly why should anyone take you seriously?

Ok then please provide your demonstration.

Are you aware of the Road to Damascus story? You should be aware of the flaws in that story.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Song, all this is just

According to the Jesus Seminar about 80% he did not say.

Seminar Rules Out 80% of Words Attributed to Jesus : Religion: Provocative meeting of biblical scholars ends six years of voting on authenticity in the Gospels.

There has been centuries of scholarship on the Bible, much of which would dispute the findings of this particular seminar of sceptics!

There is more to knowing Jesus than reading scripture. One needs to have the Holy Spirit indwelling, then you can know the Spirit and the truth.
'Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.' [John 16:13]

How many of the assembled scholars can claim to have received the baptism of Christ?

 

[leroy]

What do you mean by Christianity is wrong?

That Jesus isn’t the messiah, that Jesus didn’t have a “special” relationship with God.

 

[leroy]

If you are going to be silly why should anyone take you seriously?

You claimed that I made an unjustified assumption, I am simply asking which is that assumption so that I can justify it………..what’s silly about that?

Are you aware of the Road to Damascus story? You should be aware of the flaws in that story.

Ok then elaborate your argument, and explain why shouldn’t we trust Paul, when he said that Jesus was buried.