Is Yahweh A Liar? Yes, He Is. I Can Prove It.

[Trailblazer]

Were they like state workers? You know with one working and 5 watching lol.

Pardon me? I am a state worker and I work very hard.... we all do.

 

[We Never Know]

Pardon me? I am a state worker and I work very hard.... we all do.

Let me clarify. State road workers in Oklahoma usually have one working, 5 watching and 6 different trucks to get all six there lol.

 

[Redemptionsong]

No, I am not claiming that. The word “prince” can have more than one meaning depending upon the context. “Princes of this world” refers to worldly princes, men who hold temporal power. “Prince” of this world, within the context of the following verses, refers to Jesus.

John 12 King James Version

27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.

28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.

29 The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.

30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.

31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

Within the context of those verses it is obvious Jesus was referring to Himself as the “prince” of this world who will be cast out as verse 33 says “what death he should die.”

IMO, your interpretation makes a mockery of plain English! Yes, Jesus is a prince, but he's the 'prince of life', not 'the prince of this world'!

In verse 31 'the prince of this world' is to be 'cast out'. In verse 32 it says, 'And I' (showing that 'I' is not the same as 'the prince of this world') will 'draw all men unto me'.

Let's add to this two more passages in John that mention 'the prince of this world'.

John 14:30. 'Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.' IS THIS CONFIRMATION ENOUGH?! The 'prince of this world' has nothing in Christ.

John 16:11. 'Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.' Is Jesus Christ JUDGED? Or is he the Judge?

If your interpretation of this one title can be so far from the truth, what are we to believe about your other interpretations of scripture?

 

[Redemptionsong]

Not the body but the soul of Jesus ascended into heaven in the clouds.

When Jesus was resurrected, he was the firstfruits of the harvest. This means that he was the first 'body and soul' to be resurrected. The body of Jesus was resurrected, and it was changed from a corruptible body into an incorrruptible and immortal body.

1 Corinthians 15:20. 'But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of the dead.'

1 Corinthians 15:23. 'But every man in his own order: Christ the firtsfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.'

1 Corinthians 15:42. 'So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:'

This information tells us that Jesus was not just a soul ascending to heaven. In Acts 1:10,11. it says, 'And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.'

Would the disciples have seen a soul ascending into heaven? Clearly not. They saw the risen Jesus ascend into heaven. And it follows that if the risen Jesus ascended then Daniel is referring to Jesus when he says, one 'like the Son of man' appeared before the 'Ancient of days' [Daniel 7:13,14.].

 

[Redemptionsong]

You'd have to ask them, but the Jesus seminar is one of the most comprehensive scholarly assemblies of Christians ever put together. That you don't like their conclusions doesn't change that fact. Sorry. Most outside the Christian bubble accept their conclusions.

Then it speaks volumes about the direction that the Church, and the world, is headed!

One of the passages dismissed by the seminar is John 14:6, 'I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me'.

This is a passage that the world hates because it's so narrow and exclusive. It's stating that there is only one Saviour from sin, Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

1 John 4:9. 'In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.'

Making the way to heaven appear broad and easy may appeal to an unrepentant world, but it shouldn't deceive those who know that the way of salvation in Christ is narrow.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Then it speaks volumes about the direction that the Church, and the world, is headed!

One of the passages dismissed by the seminar is John 14:6, 'I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me'.

This is a passage that the world hates because it's so narrow and exclusive. It's stating that there is only one Saviour from sin, Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

1 John 4:9. 'In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.'

Making the way to heaven appear broad and easy may appeal to an unrepentant world, but it shouldn't deceive those who know that the way of salvation in Christ is narrow.

If the way to Salvation through Christ is narrow, then God devised a pretty crappy way of saving humanity....in my humble opinion of course.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

i understood what you meant. However i made a joke on three workers on a water heater. That is usually a one person job.

Oh, I'm sorry. It went right over my head. it actually was a 2-man job. The boss stopped by at the end to make sure it was done right. I exaggerated, I think.

 

[leroy]

Are you aware of the Road to Damascus story? You should be aware of the flaws in that story.

No I am not aware of any flaws, but even if there where flaws, it seems to me that it wouldn’t imply that Paul was wrong when claiming that Jesus was buried…..but you are the one making the argument, so feel free to elaborate it.

Now, now. If you follow your usual strategy you will simply deny it and run away and then pretend no one refuted you. We will have to walk you through it.

You mean that I might simply say something silly like “those are just unsupported assumptions” and run away without any justification or explanation on what assumptions are those ?

You might as well assume that all of them were unjustified.

Don’t worry in my case, if you made unsupported assumption I will explain exactly what assumptions are those and why I think are unjustified……………….

 

[Redemptionsong]

If the way to Salvation through Christ is narrow, then God devised a pretty crappy way of saving humanity....in my humble opinion of course.

The way is narrow because it requires faith in the only mediator between God and man, Jesus Christ.

God gets the blame for offering a way out of a mess of our own making!

 

[Subduction Zone]

No I am not aware of any flaws, but even if there where flaws, it seems to me that it wouldn’t imply that Paul was wrong when claiming that Jesus was buried…..but you are the one making the argument, so feel free to elaborate it.

If one does not know of the flaws of Christianity one cannot claim to understand it. And one can hardly claim to be a student of it. Why Jesus was most likely not buried has already been rather well discussed.

You mean that I might simply say something silly like “those are just unsupported assumptions” and run away without any justification or explanation on what assumptions are those ?

Now, now, you must at least try to be honest. Don't pretend others have your flaws. When people explain the same thing to you hundreds of times they get irritated after a while.

Don’t worry in my case, if you made unsupported assumption I will explain exactly what assumptions are those and why I think are unjustified……………….

Then quit mucking around. Tell me when you are ready, no excuses, just a discussion

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

The way is narrow because it requires faith in the only mediator between God and man, Jesus Christ.

God gets the blame for offering a way out of a mess of our own making!

The fact is God owns the failure of most of mankind to find salvation. A father doesn't get to put a loaded gun on the table in front of his kid, leave the kid alone and then plead innocent when the kid blows his brains out. What do you think a court would say? No, he find a 100% foolproof way of keeping that gun away from his kid. God should do the same. This free will nonsense was an invention of the church to get God off the hook for his own failures and put the blame on us dumb ignorant kids.

 

[leroy]

If information in the gospels is wrong then the Bible is obviously flawed and therefore could not be God-inspired. In that case it becomes just another holy book like the Bhagavad Gita with a lot of wisdom in it but no supernatural magic stuff.

If information in the gospels is wrong then the Bible is obviously flawed and therefore could not be God-inspired. In that case it becomes just another holy book like the Bhagavad Gita with a lot of wisdom in it but no supernatural magic stuff.

Even if the bible is written by men, Christianity could still be true.

I believe that Christianity is true because

1 I think there are God arguments for the existence of God

2 There is good evidence for the resurrection

None of these points depends on the assumption that the bible is inspired by God.

…

My point is that becoming an atheist “just because the bible might be wrong” is not enough justification …………. Imagine that I become a YEC just because I noticed that some parts of the Origin of Species are wrong…………. Would that be enough justification to become a YEC?


All I am saying is that there big leap between “the bible is not inspired” to “Therefore Atheism” in my opinion you need more justification to become an atheist.

 

[leroy]

Then quit mucking around. Tell me when you are ready, no excuses, just a discussion

Then be my guest , and provide your evidence.

Just some context.

1 I claimed that Jesus was buried.

2 You asked me for justification

3 I said multiple early sources corroborate the story (Mark and Paul)

4 You said that the sources are flawed

5 I asked, what’s wrong with Paul for example?

So its your turn, you have to explain why you think Paul is not a good source when claiming that Jesus was buried,

 

[Redemptionsong]

The fact is God owns the failure of most of mankind to find salvation. A father doesn't get to put a loaded gun on the table in front of his kid, leave the kid alone and then plead innocent when the kid blows his brains out. What do you think a court would say? No, he find a 100% foolproof way of keeping that gun away from his kid. God should do the same. This free will nonsense was an invention of the church to get God off the hook for his own failures and put the blame on us dumb ignorant kids.

Let's look at what you're saying here.

The 'free will nonsense' is, I believe, absolutely fundamental to our humanity and relationships. Without free will there is no love, because love requires freedom.

God, as an omnipotent being, could have created us as automatons, or as instinctive creatures with limited capacity for good or evil. He chose, instead, to create humans with a great potential for love; but, as happens with sliding scales, also with a great capacity for evil.

In my opinion, it was a loving decision by God to create us in the first place. As an omniscient being, God knew that we would commit terrible evil, but He also knew that evil would be overcome with good.

If humans could be righteous by their own works and effort, then God would not have had to step in to save. But, God knew that once sin had cut mankind off from the source of love, the only way to repair the damage was to enter the fray from heaven. People had become stuck in a mire of their own making, with no way of extricating themselves.

Without God's help, there is no way of overcoming the sentence of death.

It's a sad thing to admit, but we are 'dumb ignorant kids'! The good news is that we don't have to stay that way.
Here's a neat testimony:

Pity about the ads at the end.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Even if the bible is written by men, Christianity could still be true.

I believe that Christianity is true because

1 I think there are God arguments for the existence of God

2 There is good evidence for the resurrection

None of these points depends on the assumption that the bible is inspired by God.

…

My point is that becoming an atheist “just because the bible might be wrong” is not enough justification …………. Imagine that I become a YEC just because I noticed that some parts of the Origin of Species are wrong…………. Would that be enough justification to become a YEC?


All I am saying is that there big leap between “the bible is not inspired” to “Therefore Atheism” in my opinion you need more justification to become an atheist.

Personally speaking, I agree it's not a good reason. I am agnostic with regard to a God. I am atheist with regard to Jesus. I see no justification for believing the Jesus of the gospels was real. There is no evidence such a person lived. I always say it's possible an ordinary man upon which the legend was based may have lived, we don't know. I and most secular scholars agree that the NT is not evidence, it's a statement of faith--nothing more. There's not a scintilla of evidence Jesus resurrected. I don't say "there's no evidence outside the Bible" because the Bible is not evidence. That is the general consensus outside the Christian bubble.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Then be my guest , and provide your evidence.

Just some context.

1 I claimed that Jesus was buried.

2 You asked me for justification

3 I said multiple early sources corroborate the story (Mark and Paul)

4 You said that the sources are flawed

5 I asked, what’s wrong with Paul for example?

So its your turn, you have to explain why you think Paul is not a good source when claiming that Jesus was buried,

I see that you ran away from our conversation.

So let's correct your errors here. Paul and Mark are not separate independent sources. They were put through a filter so in effect they become only one source. This has been explained to you countless times.

Just tell me when you are ready to discuss the flaws in Paul's story.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Let's look at what you're saying here.

The 'free will nonsense' is, I believe, absolutely fundamental to our humanity and relationships. Without free will there is no love, because love requires freedom.

God, as an omnipotent being, could have created us as automatons, or as instinctive creatures with limited capacity for good or evil. He chose, instead, to create humans with a great potential for love; but, as happens with sliding scales, also with a great capacity for evil.

In my opinion, it was a loving decision by God to create us in the first place. As an omniscient being, God knew that we would commit terrible evil, but He also knew that evil would be overcome with good.

If humans could be righteous by their own works and effort, then God would not have had to step in to save. But, God knew that once sin had cut mankind off from the source of love, the only way to repair the damage was to enter the fray from heaven. People had become stuck in a mire of their own making, with no way of extricating themselves.

Without God's help, there is no way of overcoming the sentence of death.

It's a sad thing to admit, but we are 'dumb ignorant kids'! The good news is that we don't have to stay that way.

But we will--and therein is God's failure. What you're telling me is all pre-packaged Christian Kool-aid. I could talk to another Christian and get the exact same pre-packaged response you just gave. Man was made perfect, but he sinned and sinned entered the world. But God made a way for us to escape death and inherit life through Jesus. All we have to do is exercise our free will to chose him....bla bla.

 

[Redemptionsong]

But we will--and therein is God's failure. What you're telling me is all pre-packaged Christian Kool-aid. I could talk to another Christian and get the exact same pre-packaged response you just gave. Man was made perfect, but he sinned and sinned entered the world. But God made a way for us to escape death and inherit life through Jesus. All we have to do is exercise our free will to chose him....bla bla.

For it all to become real, the heart must be ready!

This is about LOVE.

What part of Jesus' ministry was not an expression of God's love for the lost?

 

[leroy]

I see that you ran away from our conversation.

So let's correct your errors here. Paul and Mark are not separate independent sources. They were put through a filter so in effect they become only one source. This has been explained to you countless times.

Just tell me when you are ready to discuss the flaws in Paul's story.

Ok so just to clarify exactly what claim are you going to support?

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

For it all to become real, the heart must be ready!

This is about LOVE.

What part of the Jesus' ministry was not an expression of God's love for the lost?

The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. And the angels will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 13 41-42

Lots of love for the lost, eh? There's plenty more "love" where that came from.