Is your religion's scripture a burden to you?

[Aupmanyav]

I for example enjoy the Qur'an more than any other scripture ..

Some what difficult to believe .. but then, people differ.

 

[Quintessence]

Theosexual means sexual love towards god and it sums up my experience to a certain degree along with many others although I prefer the term theoeroticism.
Common traits amongst theosexuals are spiritual intercourse, metaphysical cuddling and supernatural smooching .

I just blew your mind away didn't I?

Wow. You just blew my mind away with there being an actual word for this. The existence of the concept itself is patently unsurprising to me. For reasons that we won't discuss. :run:

 

[Sha'irullah]

Some what difficult to believe .. but then, people differ.

What is difficult to believe? I find all my post believable . Except for the one involving alien abductions perhaps

 

[Sha'irullah]

Wow. You just blew my mind away with there being an actual word for this. The existence of the concept itself is patently unsurprising to me. For reasons that we won't discuss. :run:

FREEEEEEAAAAAK!

 

[Amechania]

Very insightful words although I would have refrained from using certain phrases . Have you ever thought that perhaps you are theosexual?

LOL! I went out went out with a Theo when I was in high school but we never got past first base.

I do love the idea of a loving God. Maybe a person can make love to an idea. My fear would be that an idea probably couldn't love you back. An idea could definitely screw you though.

 

[Sha'irullah]

LOL! I went out went out with a Theo when I was in high school but we never got past first base.

I do love the idea of a loving God. Maybe a person can make love to an idea. My fear would be that an idea probably couldn't love you back. An idea could definitely screw you though.

Hmmm, I have never expected to be loved back from anyone. I guess this is due to my inability to seek romance on the usual traditional level. Selfless love is more beneficial to a person. Being an individual who rejects supplicative prayer I practice what I preach

 

[Amechania]

Hmmm, I have never expected to be loved back from anyone. I guess this is due to my inability to seek romance on the usual traditional level. Selfless love is more beneficial to a person. Being an individual who rejects supplicative prayer I practice what I preach

I guess all romantic love is at once selfless and selfish. It's a two way street. You're expecting something and so offer yourself up in hopes of getting it. Unconditional love, like a child for a parent, is what I believe the divine would want. But God can't get that from grownups. So love of the divine becomes a form of unrequited romantic love; the supplicant desires and God refuses. And the divine pretends to love, making grand gestures that really only satisfy God.

 

[Sha'irullah]

I guess all romantic love is at once selfless and selfish. It's a two way street. You're expecting something and so offer yourself up in hopes of getting it. Unconditional love, like a child for a parent, is what I believe the divine would want. But God can't get that from grownups. So love of the divine becomes a form of unrequited romantic love; the supplicant desires and God refuses. And the divine pretends to love, making grand gestures that really only satisfy God.

I have always compared it to infatuation or enslavement. Please do not freak out over the word slave because theists hate using it and atheists like refuting it. I use the concept of enslavement and infatuation because as we all know, we are nothing like a demiurge yet alone a god. God is vastly superior and incapable of being understood, known, or perceived so as humans we have a natural tendency to admire something this great yet we cannot fathom it. God on the other hand knows everything, owns everything and understands everything. You have a massive gap in the relationship so you there is no buffer in between. Anything done by god we do not even understand yet we still love god and create religions just in God's name because we know no better.
It is not that god is unloving it is just that god is so beyond any known concept of love, kindness or emotions. You are in love with an infinite, something that is neither good nor evil, loving nor hating. But we still love god even though we are essentially worthless specks of dust stuck on giant crusty orb waiting for our impending doom. As humans beings we create religions and worship god because we know of nothing else to do. We just do not know how to respond to the existence of an all powerful god. We create religions because we actually desire being given mandates by a deity. I myself have no reason why that is so for many people.

Anselm of Canterbury said it bluntly: "that than which nothing greater can be conceived". The greater the god the more distant it becomes and the least emotional.

 

[Amechania]

I have always compared it to infatuation or enslavement. Please do not freak out over the word slave because theists hate using it and atheists like refuting it. I use the concept of enslavement and infatuation because as we all know, we are nothing like a demiurge yet alone a god. God is vastly superior and incapable of being understood, known, or perceived so as humans we have a natural tendency to admire something this great yet we cannot fathom it. God on the other hand knows everything, owns everything and understands everything. You have a massive gap in the relationship so you there is no buffer in between. Anything done by god we do not even understand yet we still love god and create religions just in God's name because we know no better.
It is not that god is unloving it is just that god is so beyond any known concept of love, kindness or emotions. You are in love with an infinite, something that is neither good nor evil, loving nor hating. But we still love god even though we are essentially worthless specks of dust stuck on giant crusty orb waiting for our impending doom. As humans beings we create religions and worship god because we know of nothing else to do. We just do not know how to respond to the existence of an all powerful god. We create religions because we actually desire being given mandates by a deity. I myself have no reason why that is so for many people.

Anselm of Canterbury said it bluntly: "that than which nothing greater can be conceived". The greater the god the more distant it becomes and the least emotional.

Is not an infinite being the god of both the very great and the very small? Would not such a god value even a speck that had the wit to regard him at all? Even value it greatly? That, I think, is the hope of the faithful. It may be why they prostrate themselves before altars of despair, enslave themselves to impossible designs, and sell all they have and give it to the poor.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Is not an infinite being the god of both the very great and the very small?

Yep

Would not such a god value even a speck that had the wit to regard him at all?

Yep

Even value it greatly?

Yep

The issue though is that no sign of god valuing this speck of dust is shown. At least in this universe .

That, I think, is the hope of the faithful.
It may be why they prostrate themselves before altars of despair, enslave themselves to impossible designs, and sell all they have and give it to the poor.

That is the outlandishness of it all is that we try limit ourselves with religion and complain about the limitations. Human beings seem to very hypocritical and contradictory in our behavior. We perceive the world as black and white while ignoring the contradictions we create. We want god to love us yet we keep assigning attributes to god that would make god more distant from us. It is as if we must worship the most ludicrous deity possible in our own minds.

 

[Amechania]

That is the outlandishness of it all is that we try limit ourselves with religion and complain about the limitations. Human beings seem to very hypocritical and contradictory in our behavior. We perceive the world as black and white while ignoring the contradictions we create. We want god to love us yet we keep assigning attributes to god that would make god more distant from us. It is as if we must worship the most ludicrous deity possible in our own minds.

"Outlandish," what an interesting choice of words. some religious practices involve considering oneself an "outlander," a "stranger in a strange land." The principle is that perfection and therefore rescue comes through denying the self and the pleasures of the world. perhaps in emulation of some prophet. Perhaps that's out of fear, delusion, or just plain masochism. Many people suffer from the delusion that love can only come through pain. I don't know if it's silly, but it is definitely sad.

 

[CMike]

I'm a spiritual, but non-religious person. I find inspiration from good people, nature, the arts, and so on. I think the source of morality is somewhat innate and somewhat from culture and society.

I can find some value in Abrahamic scripture.There are some nice messages in there (e.g. "turn the other cheek", "do unto others..."). I can also see how scripture was initially used to help support the societies of the day (e.g. "here are the healthiest ways we know to slaughter animals").

But mostly when I read the Abrahamic scripture, I find it to be more trouble than it's worth. It's easy to attack. It requires mental gymnastics to defend. You have to do extensive cherry picking to get it to fit into modern society. (And, I'll contend that you do that cherry picking by using the morality that's already in you .)

So that's how it seems to me... Do you find your scripture to be a burden?

You need to actually take the trouble to understand what you are reading.

That is something that is rarely done here.

 

[crossfire]

I don't feel burdened by Taoist or Buddhist scriptures.

 

[icehorse]

You need to actually take the trouble to understand what you are reading.

That is something that is rarely done here.

Would you call that activity "interpretation"? If not, what would you call it?

CMike, to take one example, how is it that you arrive at the conclusion that you can disregard the OT's instruction to kill a neighbor who's working on a Sunday? It seems to me that you're performing some sort of interpretation, or cherry-picking, or mental gymnastics to make such a conclusion.

 

[Knight of Albion]

There is wheat and chaff...

There is that which may have been applicable to the people and society of the time, but may not be applicable to the people and society of today...

The purpose of Scripture is to guide and uplift. It is a question of discerning that which strikes a chord within and helps you to grow as a person and spiritually.

I don't think one should be confined to just the religion of one's upbringing. There is great and potent wisdom to be found in all the religions of the Light and indeed the writings of enlightened souls, like Gandhi or Schweitzer.

Whatever the source of the text, if it has helped to make you a better person then it has served its purpose.

 

[Tarheeler]

Would you call that activity "interpretation"? If not, what would you call it?

CMike, to take one example, how is it that you arrive at the conclusion that you can disregard the OT's instruction to kill a neighbor who's working on a Sunday? It seems to me that you're performing some sort of interpretation, or cherry-picking, or mental gymnastics to make such a conclusion.

A couple of things:
1.) There is no prohibition to working on Sundays.
2.) The Christian Bible doesn't concern us.
3.) The Torah comes in two parts: The Written Law and the Oral Law. Both are used together to tell us how to put the law into action.

Don't you think you should at least have a basic understanding of someone's religion before you accuse them of "cherry-picking [and] mental gymnastics"?

 

[icehorse]

Hi Tarheeler,

Good point, Exodus instructs believers to kill those who work on the sabbath, not on Sunday. Although I have to say that while I erred on that detail, didn't I get the spirit of the scripture correct?

Also, perhaps I have this wrong, but isn't the most common understanding that the OT and the Torah at least share books like Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus and others? Again, it seems like you're chipping away at details, but the gist of my post is valid... right?

 

[Tarheeler]

Hi Tarheeler,

Good point, Exodus instructs believers to kill those who work on the sabbath, not on Sunday. Although I have to say that while I erred on that detail, didn't I get the spirit of the scripture correct?

Also, perhaps I have this wrong, but isn't the most common understanding that the OT and the Torah at least share books like Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus and others? Again, it seems like you're chipping away at details, but the gist of my post is valid... right?

No, it isn't valid.

Judaism doesn't work like Christianity; we have relied on an oral tradition that has accompanied the Written Torah since the beginning. Like I said in my previous post, they are used together to put the law into action, and you really should educate yourself about people's religions before you begin to make accusations.

Also, there are often severe translation issues between the Torah and the Christian's Old Testament, and their understanding is rife with enough eisegesis to render the two quite different.

 

[icehorse]

Hi Tarheeler,

What accusations did I make? From what I can gather from your responses, you're largely agreeing with me, no? I mean you might want to phrase things differently, but isn't the gist of what you're saying is that Jews put a lot of effort into interpreting the scripture?

 

[Tarheeler]

Hi Tarheeler,

What accusations did I make? From what I can gather from your responses, you're largely agreeing with me, no? I mean you might want to phrase things differently, but isn't the gist of what you're saying is that Jews put a lot of effort into interpreting the scripture?

You might want to brush up on reading comprehension while you're busy studying religion.


But, sure, if you water everything down far enough, everybody agrees about everything eventually.