isa (as) /jesus(pbuh)

[nawab]

when we tell you he is a Man only, we are also not following clever invented stories,

Acts 2:22 - Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Job 25:4-6 - How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman? Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight.
How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?

Pls explain these verses since i dont doubt the validity of the Bible, the topic is not Bible I understand that christians do not take oath on the bible literally. I know that we are saying who loves Jesus more. as Jesus himself said John 14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves Me

Let us compare generally do muslism keep commandments or the Christians keep commandments you know what forget Muslims, I think the Jews are better Christians than the Christians themselves since they can be more qualified in loving Jesus since he said keep the commandments if you love Jesus, the Jews and Muslims keep commandments. If you want to love jesus you have to keep the commandments, so elevating someone to a God is not a criteria of love but rather do anything he ordained and forbid anything he disapprove is really Love.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

What about the 12+ legions of angels? Did you even read my post?

Yep and that had nothing to do with the fact that the disciples were told by him to sell what they had and purchase swords. They brought the swords they had for protection. Specifically the protection of Yeshua. As they moved forward to arrest him a follower carrying a sword and did what????? Used his sword to protect Yeshua and in the process cut off the ear of the priest. Regardless of whatever prophecy or the statement made after the ear cutting incident...those guys brought weapons to protect him.....

Choppin' broccoli!

Must have been some mighty big brocoli.....:sleep:

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Technically, I can only speak for myself. Rule #8 I believe.

Then it is not the christian "definition says that the Messiah is shares deity with the Father and the Holy Spirit."........on a whole......

 

[nawab]

see i told you Christians can never answer these questions no matter how hard they try

 

[Dirty Penguin]

when we tell you he is a Man only, we are also not following clever invented stories,

Acts 2:22 - Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth,

a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Job 25:4-6 - How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman? Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight.
How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?

Pls explain these verses since i dont doubt the validity of the Bible, the topic is not Bible I understand that christians do not take oath on the bible literally. I know that we are saying who loves Jesus more. as Jesus himself said John 14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves Me

Let us compare generally do muslism keep commandments or the Christians keep commandments you know what forget Muslims, I think the Jews are better Christians than the Christians themselves since they can be more qualified in loving Jesus since he said keep the commandments if you love Jesus, the Jews and Muslims keep commandments. If you want to love jesus you have to keep the commandments, so elevating someone to a God is not a criteria of love but rather do anything he ordained and forbid anything he disapprove is really Love.

Shucks....John 14:21 wasn't clear enough.

Matthew 5:18-19
18 I assure you, until heaven and earth disappear, even the smallest detail of God's law will remain until its purpose is achieved.

19 So if you break the smallest commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God's laws and teaches them will be great in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Sounds clear to me.....

 

[Jeremy Mason]

when we tell you he is a Man only, we are also not following clever invented stories,

Acts 2:22 - Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Let's read a little further.
Acts 2:22-36 (NIV)
22"Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23This man was handed over to you by God's set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross. 24But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him. 25David said about him:
" 'I saw the Lord always before me.
Because he is at my right hand,
I will not be shaken.
26Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices;
my body also will live in hope,
27because you will not abandon me to the grave,
nor will you let your Holy One see decay.
28You have made known to me the paths of life;
you will fill me with joy in your presence.'
29"Brothers, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day. 30But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne. 31Seeing what was ahead, he spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to the grave, nor did his body see decay. 32God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of the fact. 33Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. 34For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said,
" 'The Lord said to my Lord:
"Sit at my right hand
35until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet." '
36"Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."

Job 25:4-6 - How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman? Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight.
How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?

This was Bidad's opinion and hyperbole that man pails in significance to God. Jesus preexisted before all humans so your analogy doesn't hold water.

Pls explain these verses since i dont doubt the validity of the Bible, the topic is not Bible I understand that christians do not take oath on the bible literally.

Some more than others.

I know that we are saying who loves Jesus more. as Jesus himself said John 14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves Me

Let us compare generally do muslism keep commandments or the Christians keep commandments you know what forget Muslims, I think the Jews are better Christians than the Christians themselves since they can be more qualified in loving Jesus since he said keep the commandments if you love Jesus, the Jews and Muslims keep commandments. If you want to love jesus you have to keep the commandments, so elevating someone to a God is not a criteria of love but rather do anything he ordained and forbid anything he disapprove is really Love.

1) One of his commandment was to follow him/Jesus.
2) Jesus can forgive sins.
3) Jesus sits at the Fathers right hand.
4) Moses and Muhammad are subordinates to Jesus and the Father.
5) Who are we to judge our Masters servants.
6) We did not elevate Jesus to God's level, God the Father did.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Then it is not the christian "definition says that the Messiah is shares deity with the Father and the Holy Spirit."........on a whole......

Since you didn't bother the first time, here it is again! :slap:

Messiah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Jeremy Mason]

see i told you Christians can never answer these questions no matter how hard they try

Please!!! Your lack of patience is your folly.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Shucks....John 14:21 wasn't clear enough.

Matthew 5:18-19
18 I assure you, until heaven and earth disappear, even the smallest detail of God's law will remain until its purpose is achieved.

19 So if you break the smallest commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God's laws and teaches them will be great in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Sounds clear to me.....

Strawman

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Since you didn't bother the first time, here it is again! :slap:

Messiah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When did wikipedia become the authority?:slap:


Even so...I understand what you (trinitarians) believe. I'm simply stating the fact that...this is not something "ALL" christians believe nor is this some thing Yeshua taught... (He did not teach he was God nor did his followers think he was). he Book of Revelation is a prime example of how God and Yeshua are compltely separate.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Strawman

No strawman......Yeshua said it not me.....This was his message...."The laws of old are to remain in effect. Follow them...everyone one, even the smallest. If you teach others to not follow them then you will not be blessed but if you teach others to keep the commandments all will be blessed........"

 

[Jeremy Mason]

When did wikipedia become the authority?:slap:


Even so...I understand what you (trinitarians) believe. I'm simply stating the fact that...this is not something "ALL" christians believe nor is this some thing Yeshua taught... (He did not teach he was God nor did his followers think he was). he Book of Revelation is a prime example of how God and Yeshua are compltely separate.

Rev. 1:8
8"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."

 

[Jeremy Mason]

No strawman......Yeshua said it not me.....This was his message...."The laws of old are to remain in effect. Follow them...everyone one, even the smallest. If you teach others to not follow them then you will not be blessed but if you teach others to keep the commandments all will be blessed........"

I didn't say we didn't have to obey his commandments.

Edit: Sorry for the double negative.

 

[nawab]

Sorry this is not my opinion that is what is written in the Bible, That Jesus is a Worm, the bible calls Jesus a worm and you call him a God, suppose if both of you are right then is Jesus a Worm God,

These are not the only commandments of Jesus, Whatever Jesus did was a commandment and whatever he did not was a forbidden act. these commandments you have stated below is only what the church teaches simplify the commandments so that no one feel that Christianity is so hard to obsereve, it is basically for catching fish (in Missionary terms) what about adultry isnt that a commandment, how about murder, rape, homosexuality but no problem in order to gain profits we have allow Gay Bishops, so that we dont lose our gay customers

How can Moses & Muhammad be subordinates when all of us are worms. dont forget

 

[Jeremy Mason]

[/quote]

Sorry this is not my opinion that is what is written in the Bible, That Jesus is a Worm, the bible calls Jesus a worm and you call him a God, suppose if both of you are right then is Jesus a Worm God,

No nawab, you are just taking Scripture out of context. Here is the verse:

Job 25:4-6
4 How then can a man be righteous before God?
How can one born of woman be pure? 5 If even the moon is not bright
and the stars are not pure in his eyes,
6 how much less man, who is but a maggot—
a son of man, who is only a worm!"



Bidad was saying that because human are sinful, we are worms. Jesus was without sin and perfect. The only thing that is perfect is God. So Jesus, being conceived by God and Mary makes Jesus God incarnate. The Jews had to sacrifice a year old lamb without blemish to atone for their sins. This foreshadowed what Jesus did on the cross. Now that He has done that, we no longer need to sacrifice lambs because He was the sacrificial Lamb of God.

These are not the only commandments of Jesus, Whatever Jesus did was a commandment and whatever he did not was a forbidden act.

Not forbidden, but commanded by God.
Gethsemane - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

these commandments you have stated below is only what the church teaches simplify the commandments so that no one feel that Christianity is so hard to obsereve, it is basically for catching fish (in Missionary terms) what about adultry isnt that a commandment, how about murder, rape, homosexuality but no problem in order to gain profits we have allow Gay Bishops, so that we dont lose our gay customers

LOL!!! You are right. Some church that claim to follow Jesus do some crazy things, but they are not true Christian Churches. Do you understand.

How can Moses & Muhammad be subordinates when all of us are worms. dont forget

Jesus is the Son of God, not a worm. Please do not say that again.:tsk:

 

[nawab]

I am not saying Jesus is a worm its your bible, either you dont understand English or i dont when it says how can one be born pure that is of woman isnt Jesus born of a woman, plus why did it says that the son of man is a worm. Of course I understand it does not mean literally its and eastern way of expression. like i might be the Greatest emperor of this earth but to show my humbleness i would say what am i infront of God I am just a worm/rat you know to show my humbleness.

Jesus does not sound like a sacrifical Lamb but rather a Scape goat, He himself many times say that the words you hear are not mine, but the father who sent me. He was not the higest authority but The God Almighty of the universe

 

[Jeremy Mason]

I am not saying Jesus is a worm its your bible, either you dont understand English or i dont when it says how can one be born pure that is of woman isnt Jesus born of a woman, plus why did it says that the son of man is a worm. Of course I understand it does not mean literally its and eastern way of expression. like i might be the Greatest emperor of this earth but to show my humbleness i would say what am i infront of God I am just a worm/rat you know to show my humbleness.

I understand, but to refer to the Messiah as a worm metaphorically or not is not polite.

Jesus does not sound like a sacrifical Lamb but rather a Scape goat, He himself many times say that the words you hear are not mine, but the father who sent me. He was not the higest authority but The God Almighty of the universe

Some people do use Jesus as an escape goat. The Bible says that those people will punished for doing so.

 

[Azakel]

I understand, but to refer to the Messiah as a worm metaphorically or not is not polite.

Yeah, because if anyone did that with there prophet they'd be up in arm.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Rev. 1:8
8"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."

Show me in the original greek where it says "Lord God". I'll give you a hint.....It doesn't. It depends on what greek version your translating from. This is why people say your book is corrupted. Translators playing silly games like this fooling people such as yourself. Examining multiple greek versions not all of them said "Lord God" some of them just said "Lord."

All it shows here, and might I remind you..you keep quoting this verse, is that you really don't understand Revelation. Multiple "people" are speaking here or are being spoken of (described) in this book. We've gone through a lot of this in another thread. It is commonly agreed that in that book "The Lamb" is explicitly in reference to Yeshua The Messiah. If this is true, and scholars all agree it is, then there is a fundamental difference than Yeshua (The Lamb) and God (Who sits on the throne receiving praise).

Revelation 1:1-2
1 This is a revelation from Yeshua the Messiah, which God gave him concerning the events that will happen soon. An angel was sent to God's servant John so that John could share the revelation with God's other servants.

If Yeshua is God then after the supposed ascension he should not be viewed as two beings. John receives (the revelation) FROM Yeshua, (NOT GOD)...but this revelation was GIVEN to Yeshua FROM God concerning FUTURE events. One being doing the giving and another is receiving. God does not have to give something to himself. It is illogical.

2 John faithfully reported the word of God and the testimony of Yeshua the Messiah--everything he saw.

John reports the word of God and Yeshua testifies (confirms or validates) it.

Rev. 3:12
All who are victorious will become pillars in the Temple of my God, and they will never have to leave it. And I will write my God's name on them, and they will be citizens in the city of my God--the new Jerusalem that comes down from heaven from my God. And they will have my new name inscribed upon them.

The verses above are strictly related to Yeshua (The Lamb). This is where he explicitly informs John he has a god. If he is ascended then there should be no distinction. He should be simply referred to as God. Explain to me...at this point, how God can have a god?


Revelation 4:2 and 9-11
2 And instantly I was in the Spirit, and I saw a throne in heaven and someone sitting on it!

9 Whenever the living beings give glory and honor and thanks to the one sitting on the throne, the one who lives forever and ever,

10 the twenty-four elders fall down and worship the one who lives forever and ever. And they lay their crowns before the throne and say,

11 "You are worthy, O Lord our God, to receive glory and honor and power. For you created everything, and it is for your pleasure that they exist and were created."


Now remember God in verse 4:11 above? God (IS) worthy so let's move a little forward;

Revelation 5:1-4

1 And I saw a scroll in the right hand of the one who was sitting on the throne. There was writing on the inside and the outside of the scroll, and it was sealed with seven seals.

Remember verse 4:2 above? God is sitting on the throne.



2 And I saw a strong angel, who shouted with a loud voice: "Who is worthy to break the seals on this scroll and unroll it?

Remember verse 4:11 above? God is worthy...so out of respect none of his creation would ever dare question his worthiness to open something that he had in his possession that he most likely sealed himself. Remember, he is omnipotent.



3 But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll and read it.

Surely John thought God was capable of accomplishing this task? The scroll was not for God to open but some one other than God who was worthy was to open the seals.


4 Then I wept because no one could be found who was worthy to open the scroll and read it.

God had the scroll in his hand. Surely there was no need of this if everyone knew he was worthy. Again, that's because he was entrusting some one else worthy enough to open the seals. Some one other than himself.



5 But one of the twenty-four elders said to me, "Stop weeping! Look, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the heir to David's throne, has conquered. He is worthy to open the scroll and break its seven seals."

As you can clearly see, a reference to some one else is mentioned worthy of opening the seals......not the one on the throne (God).

Wait, wait....it gets better......;

Revelation 5:7

7 He stepped forward and took the scroll from the right hand of the one sitting on the throne.

Remember Rev. 4:2 above? God is the one the throne and in Rev. 5:7 "The Lamb" is the one who comes forward and takes the scroll from the hand of his god. Also note that (The Lamb) was not sitting on the throne. He was in the crowd with the rest of God's creation.

So I must state the "obvious" and repeat myself......Yeshua is not God and in addition you don't understand the book you quote from.....

 

[sojourner]

I am not saying Jesus is a worm its your bible, either you dont understand English or i dont when it says how can one be born pure that is of woman isnt Jesus born of a woman, plus why did it says that the son of man is a worm. Of course I understand it does not mean literally its and eastern way of expression. like i might be the Greatest emperor of this earth but to show my humbleness i would say what am i infront of God I am just a worm/rat you know to show my humbleness.

Jesus does not sound like a sacrifical Lamb but rather a Scape goat, He himself many times say that the words you hear are not mine, but the father who sent me. He was not the higest authority but The God Almighty of the universe

You're missing the whole point of the mystery of the Incarnation. When Jesus told the parable of the leaven: "God's kingdom is like leaven which a woman hid in a lump of dough..." In ancient times, leaven was a poison. It was unclean. What Jesus was saying was that, in the Incarnation, in becoming human, God dirtied God's Self -- became poison. That's what saves us. Because we are unable to clean ourselves up in order to meet God...God dirtied God's Self in order to meet us. God acts. God is the impetus. We respond. We have been reconciled to God in the Incarnation when God became fully human.