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isa (as) /jesus(pbuh)

Jeremy Mason

Jeremy Mason

Well-Known Member
Dirty Penguin said:
So what you're saying is though muslims profess their belief in the messiah they don't really believe in him?

Can you you explain why not...?
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Find me one Muslim that professes that Jesus is their messiah. Yes they believe that Jesus was a prophet, but not their messiah.
 
YmirGF

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Dirty Penguin said:
Well I've read the bible and no where is Jesus God nor does he teach his followers he is.

You all are fighting a continuous losing battle...(christianity vs. islam) no one will be the victor in arguments like this.
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That is why I have observed a couple of times that the OP is using flawed thinking. It is little more than a "setup" question. That is also why I asserted that anyone raising such a ludicrous question is not likely to be in the "favored" camp. Then again, I am most definitely NOT a Christian, but I think that Jesus is a fairly awesome personality, to say the least. Head and shoulders above the mere "Prophet" of Islam, imho.
 
TashaN

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Jeremy Mason said:
One quick question before I answer. Where in the Bible does it say there's a difference between Muslims or Jews and unbelievers. A Muslim and a Jew are unbelievers of Christianity. Do Muslims agree that Jesus is Muhammad's and their Lord and savior? Do Jews agree that Jesus is Moses' and their Lord and savior? To be a believer, one has to publicly announce at baptism that Jesus is their Lord and Savior. The way I see it, their is no difference between a unbeliever and someone of a different faith. But ultimately God will forgive who God wants to forgive.
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You know, the book of revelation, kingdom of God, etc!
 
UnityNow101

UnityNow101

Well-Known Member
54But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?"
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Not to take this thread off topic, but the Scriptures actually speak of a triumphant and conquering Messiah who delivers Israel by defeating it's enemies. I know that you believe that will happen during the Second Coming, but the Scriptures make no distinction.
 
TashaN

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
DallasApple said:
Really?

Why dont ya'll just call your selves Christians then?

Love

Dallas
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Because Jesus wasn't a Christian nor was he advocating Christianity, but it was Paul.

So, Christians chose to follow Paul *Saul*, and Muslims chose what Jesus himself and Mohammed believe in. :)

Allah told us in the Quran that isa "Jesus" is the Messiah. That's the only reason why i believe so.
 
Dirty Penguin

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
Jeremy Mason said:
Jesus Arrested (NIV)


47While he was still speaking, Judas, one of the Twelve, arrived. With him was a large crowd armed with swords and clubs, sent from the chief priests and the elders of the people. 48Now the betrayer had arranged a signal with them: "The one I kiss is the man; arrest him." 49Going at once to Jesus, Judas said, "Greetings, Rabbi!" and kissed him. 50Jesus replied, "Friend, do what you came for."
Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus and arrested him. 51With that, one of Jesus' companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear.
52"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. 53Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? 54But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?"
55At that time Jesus said to the crowd, "Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come out with swords and clubs to capture me? Every day I sat in the temple courts teaching, and you did not arrest me. 56But this has all taken place that the writings of the prophets might be fulfilled." Then all the disciples deserted him and fled.
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Again.....he was not expecting Judas to arrives with as many people as he did. If his men were not their for his protection he wouldn't have asked them to sell everything they had to purchase weapons. Unless you believe they needed them for peeling fruit or chopping vegetables. And as the above says, as they stepped forward to arrest him a follower, with a sword, cut off the ear of the priest....And Yeshua was right to surrender and tell the follower...that if he uses his sword he will die. He knew he was out numbered and in no way be able to combat all of these people. He had no other choice but to go without a fight.
 
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Dirty Penguin

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
YmirGF said:
That is why I have observed a couple of times that the OP is using flawed thinking. It is little more than a "setup" question. That is also why I asserted that anyone raising such a ludicrous question is not likely to be in the "favored" camp. Then again, I am most definitely NOT a Christian, but I think that Jesus is a fairly awesome personality, to say the least.
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Well....I agree in a sense..that is why I say the argument of who loves him more is illogical.


YmirGF said:
Head and shoulders above the mere "Prophet" of Islam, imho.
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Well we all have our opinions.....:eek:
 
Dirty Penguin

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
Jeremy Mason said:
Find me one Muslim that professes that Jesus is their messiah. Yes they believe that Jesus was a prophet, but not their messiah.
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Then you know very little about muslims or islam.

Everywhere in the Quran he is called (Al Masih Isa ibn Maryum) - (The Messiah Yeshua son of Mary) and as I said earlier..Muslims article of faith is that no muslim is truly a muslim unless he or she excepts Isa ibn Maryum as the masih.


NOW...!!!!!


You, since you think you know......, find me one muslim who does not except Isa (Yeshua) as their Messiah.....:sarcastic
 
gnostic

gnostic

The Lost One
Dirty Penguin said:
You, since you think you know......, find me one muslim who does not except Isa (Yeshua) as their Messiah.....
sarchastic.gif
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Nawab.

Have you read his posts here about Isa, Penguin?

He also doesn't respect others who are considered prophets and listed as ones in the Qur'an.

You said to list one. Well, there you go.
 
Dirty Penguin

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
gnostic said:
Nawab.

Have you read his posts here about Isa, Penguin?

He also doesn't respect others who are considered prophets and listed as ones in the Qur'an.

You said to list one. Well, there you go.
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Are you listing him because he does not respect chrisitianity (the ideology)?

Because I had to go back and read his posts as you suggested and so far I could find no where in any of them where he rejects Yeshua (Isa) as the Messiah. Perhaps I could have overlooked a quote. If you know where he stated this can you point it out to me? If he didn't state it then I must conclude he, being a muslim, accepts Yeshua (Isa) as the Messiah...

Here is what he said about Yeshua (Isa)

Post 173
Nawab
"Jesus is one of those of company nearest to God,"

So far my question to Jeremy stands. Find me a muslim who does not except Yeshua (Isa) as the Messiah. I'm quite sure Nawab does...he seems to just not like christians or christianity or Ahmadiahs.....(maybe even a few other sects)....
 
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TashaN

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
If any Muslim didn't accept Jesus as a prophet, the Messiah, and of the nearest ones to God, then he is NOT a Muslim. This belief is essential and part of the dogma in order to be a Muslim in the first place. Anyone who denies any of the prophets mentioned in the Quran then he is no longer a Muslim.
 
Jeremy Mason

Jeremy Mason

Well-Known Member
[/quote]

Dirty Penguin said:
Again.....he was not expecting Judas to arrives with as many people as he did. If his men were not their for his protection he wouldn't have asked them to sell everything they had to purchase weapons.
Click to expand...

Dirty Penguin said:
And as the above says, as they stepped forward to arrest him a follower, with a sword, cut off the ear of the priest....And Yeshua was right to surrender and tell the follower...that if he uses his sword he will die. He knew he was out numbered and in no way be able to combat all of these people. He had no other choice but to go without a fight.
Click to expand...

What about the 12+ legions of angels? Did you even read my post?
Strawmen.


Dirty Penguin said:
Unless you believe they needed them for peeling fruit or chopping vegetables.
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Choppin' broccoli!
 
Jeremy Mason

Jeremy Mason

Well-Known Member
nawab said:
No Muslims do not agree, and Muslims are ready to discuss with you about the wrong doctrine in Christinity, that the Christians do not really follow Jesus but Paul. Now thats my point.
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2 Peter 1:16-21 (NIV)
16We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17For he received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."[a] 18We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain. 19And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. 20Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. 21For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (NIV)

16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Hebrews 4:12-13 (NIV)
12For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. 13Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

I don't think you are going to persuade me for the validity of the Bible. But go ahead and try.
 
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