Tumah
Veteran Member
And now you're back.
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Isaiah 53:8
- Thread starter Tumah
- Start date
And now you're back.
dantech
Well-Known Member
Lol I was thinking the same thing
Sleeppy
Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
Do you two understand this saying: "A picture is worth a thousand words"?
Reality is infinitely worth more than even a million pictures.. Scripture is like the Jews' scrapbook. It's nice to have and consider, but it is always inadequate. Its purpose is to guide, but even those who dedicate their lives reading it, are led by the Adversary.
You may see Eliyahu calling down fire to consume the armies against Israel, but you will neither hear, or see anyone doing this in Israel today, or in recent memory (unless you consider bombs, chemical, nuclear weaponry). You may see Samson destroy an entire army single-handedly, but today it is unheard of. You may dream of heaven, but today they will diagnose you as being mentally evil. Etc.
Avi1001
reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
Is that your diagnosis ?
Sleeppy
Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
Yes, and no. What is heaven? What would be the purpose in dreaming of heaven? How is it validated? These are questions we ask ourselves, but aren't agreed upon.
I'd assume a good intent would produce a "heavenly" dream, so that perhaps in waking, it would produce inspiration and motivation. But, perhaps ignorance and bad intent are never completely filtered out of a "heavenly dream". One might see a ladder, and another see a fiery chariot, and yet another see God's throne. Many have undoubtedly seen many gods, in their heaven. There are Muslims who undoubtedly dream of virgins, and even Muhammed. Each person is convinced, to some degree, of their heaven's accuracy and importance.
I'd like to convey to you, and everyone observing, that I will accept God's diagnosis, irrespective of my own. I believe what I am capable of believing, but God knows all things, and cannot lie.
Avi1001
reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
That's fine, no problem. There are many nice folks in this forum, and everyone is glad you are here.
Sleeppy
Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
I thought to myself just yesterday, that I am glad you are around. You help bridge gaps, and that is what I hope to learn.
dantech
Well-Known Member
Are you saying scripture is useless because only God knows all? And faith in scripture is wrong because of "what have you done for me lately?"
Do you think a doctor knows each and every cure for each and every sickness off the top of his head? No, he has books for that. And for the cures that have not been figured out yet, there's research.
Scripture is about giving us a better understanding of our history and of our God. For those who have faith, it is constantly being "researched" to learn about what comes in the future. Which is what we are doing here.
If you truly feel the way you just said, then the next time there's a fundraiser for breast cancer research, it is your duty to tell them there's no point since only God knows the cure. There's no point in educating ourselves, ever according to what you just said.
Or perhaps I just misunderstood, as I often do with your posts .
Sleeppy
Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
No. Scripture is very important, and obviously widely used (by myself, as well). But it is used both for good and evil. And there are many who will come and go, who have no use for Jewish Scripture. It relies on each individual to obtain, understand, and implement its teachings, but it does not guarantee its own purpose- only God knows who will receive what, from Scripture, and what the reaction will be. Understanding and implementation are different, and not always found together. So, I'm saying that what God wills, is done. If He wills that the Jews keep their Scripture, and prosper from it, so be it. If He wills that the Jews be a light to the nations, because of their Scripture, so be it.
There are many scriptures written for/by many peoples. The Most High has known this. But, He has only allowed one reality to contain us, and our varying scriptures. He's allowed us to compare and contrast, beginning from our own ignorances, to the point that we can even hate and destroy one another. There will always be men who hate the Jews, and the Torah. And the Torah can be misunderstood, forgotten, or even destroyed. The same goes for any other people, or scripture. But reality itself can never be fully understood, remembered, written down, reenacted, destroyed, etc.
Why do we have the command to never make graven images of things in Heaven or on Earth?
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Repox
Truth Seeker
I have found most Christians use figurative interpretations for Jesus, or the son of God, in the Old Testament. If you ignore those interpretations, Isaiah 53, or most of the Old Testament, or the Jewish Bible, works when applied to Israel. I've always thought Israel is God's special test case for humankind, kind of like sacrificial lambs. If you read the history or Israel, you'll find that verse, "By oppression and judgment he was taken away. . . " applies only to Israel. Many times in the history of Israel, Jews have been cut off, or deprived of their land, even to having no "homeland." Thus, "For he was cut off from the land of the living."
Here is an interesting exercise. Try to find literal interpretations for the son of God in the Old Testament. I think there is only one and it's insignificant. If you apply figurative interpretations you can find almost anything.
Here is an interesting exercise. Try to find literal interpretations for the son of God in the Old Testament. I think there is only one and it's insignificant. If you apply figurative interpretations you can find almost anything.
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Avi1001
reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
I think you have an original way of looking at religious issues. It is refreshing.
Note that the term "Old Testament" is an interpretation.
Tumah
Veteran Member
The only thing I can think of off hand that you might be referring to is the "sons of gods" from Genesis. There is also when G-d calls Israel "my firstborn son in Exodus". and G-d tells David, "you are my son, today I have born you."
What a pathetically arrogant and pretentious condemnation and dismissal of our teachers and sages.
He means everyone is led by the adversary. Teachers and sages are people too.
Avi1001
reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
I agree with Savage Wind. He is debating the issue. You are attacking the poster. This is ad hominem.
It is the characterization of a position. Stop whining.
Actually I do not agree with that. He is attacking what is said. The words are pathetic. He did not say the poster is pathetic. I do agree the words are not pathetic. You are right about that. Everyone who marches to the beat of a different drummer thinks everyone else is being misled.