ISIS in Ferguson

[Jayhawker Soule]

Call it a stress-relief laughter. It's been a tough time lately.

Been there … done that … love you.

 

[Phil25]

No, I don't think that's very likely. But may continue jumping on anything that remotely relates to muslslim radicalism like a drunk to a kebab. But come, you have yet to supply any evidence that ISIS were present are/were present at ferguson other than your Chicken Little fears.

If he had been holding up a sign saying 'Nazi's Here' would you have equally as quickly made a post saying 'Nazis have arrived in Ferguson!'?

Even the Islamists of ISIS are obsessing over Ferguson - The Washington Post

 

[Poeticus]

Even the Islamists of ISIS are obsessing over Ferguson - The Washington Post

D-d-d-don't you know, Phil ? The Washington Post is a r-r-ra-racist source.

 

[Phil25]

D-d-d-don't you know, Phil ? The Washington Post is a r-r-ra-racist source.

Sexist, Homophobic, and Islamophobic, too

 

[Drolefille]

Even the Islamists of ISIS are obsessing over Ferguson - The Washington Post

Yeah they're using it as propaganda. That makes a lot of sense. We do the same thing to them (that doesn't mean we're wrong, or that they're cool people, just that that's how propaganda works.)


It doesn't however say or demonstrate anything about ISIS supporters being IN Ferguson, just tweeting about it. Nor does it demonstrate that the sign being held implied membership in ISIS rather than criticism of the police. (Occam's Razor suggests the latter.) The people mentioned in this article are from Europe, not Missouri.

You can go on about people dismissing the Daily Mail, FWIW, but it is not a well regarded newspaper, simply a large one. The Wall Street Journal is a well-regarded paper whose editorial page runs conservative (IIRC). Some people criticize it, but it won't be laughed off the forum. They're the "click bait blog" of British papers, and appeal to the xenophobic crowd in particular. We're talking British National Party, not just the more conservatives. Think Stormfront with a veneer of political respectability.

(Brits please correct me if you think I've overstated it, this is an outsider's perspective.)

 

[xkatz]

Even the Islamists of ISIS are obsessing over Ferguson - The Washington Post

ISIS simply trying to exploit radical elements in the Muslim subculture in the African American community IMHO.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Even the Islamists of ISIS are obsessing over Ferguson - The Washington Post

I have no doubt that an organization such as ISIS would seize upon the crisis in Ferguson as an opportunity for their own propaganda.

 

[Drolefille]

ISIS simply trying to exploit radical elements in the Muslim subculture in the African American community IMHO.

Looking at the posts, it isn't even that, they're trying to play off the lack of faith that many black people have in their government in Ferguson in particular (but in general as well). They would want them to convert to Islam (and it's not like the actual ISIS sort would typically support Nation of Islam, I see more criticism of it than praise of it in the Muslim community, has that changed?) but they're certainly using the propaganda to target that distrust and play for sympathy/support rather than expecting any black Muslims to become radical.

 

[xkatz]

They would want them to convert to Islam (and it's not like the actual ISIS sort would typically support Nation of Islam, I see more criticism of it than praise of it in the Muslim community, has that changed?)

NOI has moved more towards Islamic orthodoxy from my understanding, but it's still criticized by other Muslims orgs for it's entanglement of Islam w/ black nationalism.

 

[Drolefille]

NOI has moved more towards Islamic orthodoxy from my understanding, but it's still criticized by other Muslims orgs for it's entanglement of Islam w/ black nationalism.

Fair enough. I'd still suspect that extremists - you know the ones that kill other people for failing to follow religion as they see it - wouldn't typically be NOI fans. Not that black Americans don't join mainstream and even sometimes extremist Islamic groups, just that this would be a weird recruitment drive. I don't think they expect radical black Muslims to join ISIS, I think they're using the propaganda machine.

 

[Mycroft]

Even the Islamists of ISIS are obsessing over Ferguson - The Washington Post

But where is your evidence that any members of ISIS where actually there?

 

[Phil25]

But where is your evidence that any members of ISIS where actually there?

No one's claiming that ISIS was in Ferguson, but that a guy was holding a sign in support of ISIS, and ISIS has used social media to recruit Black Americans to convert to Islam and join ISIS.
Check the OP if you have doubt.

And off topic but anyway, What type of evidence do you need to convince you that ISIS militants from Iraq had come to Ferguson(not that they came but if they did, what would convince you that they did?)

 

[Poeticus]

Check the OP if you have doubt.

Bada bing bada boom !

 

[Drolefille]

No one's claiming that ISIS was in Ferguson, but that a guy was holding a sign in support of ISIS, and ISIS has used social media to recruit Black Americans to convert to Islam and join ISIS.
Check the OP if you have doubt.

You are assuming that the man was supporting ISIS. That means a guy went to a protest and held up an unrelated sign. The alternative option is that the man was making a commentary on the police being like ISIS, that at least means that his sign was relevant to the protest and similar to many other signs present.

To compare, a sign that said "Obama is Socialist" wouldn't be advocating socialism, right?

 

[Poeticus]

You are assuming that the man was supporting ISIS. That means a guy went to a protest and held up an unrelated sign. The alternative option is that the man was making a commentary on the police being like ISIS, that at least means that his sign was relevant to the protest and similar to many other signs present.

To compare, a sign that said "Obama is Socialist" wouldn't be advocating socialism, right?

Of course not, but you're stretching it out here. The OP is simply trying to say---no matter how insufficiently worded---that the IS is taking advantage of the occurrences going on in Ferguson. That's it. Case closed. No need to look into it.

 

[Phil25]

You are assuming that the man was supporting ISIS. That means a guy went to a protest and held up an unrelated sign. The alternative option is that the man was making a commentary on the police being like ISIS, that at least means that his sign was relevant to the protest and similar to many other signs present.

To compare, a sign that said "Obama is Socialist" wouldn't be advocating socialism, right?

And you are assuming that the man wasnt supporting ISIS.

If I walked down the street saying that "Jihadis are here" it could either mean that I am opposed to Jihadis and I am warning others of what I perceive as Jihadification of America or that I support Jihadis and I am warning others that we have come. Both are real possibilities and we cant dismiss either of them, especially considering how much ISIS is using social media to recruit Black Americans to convert to Islam and join ISIS, i wouldnt be surprised if some disillusioned Black American, Nation of Islam follower sympathized with ISIS.

And the main point of OP, was ISIS is using social media to recruit Black Americans.

 

[Drolefille]

Of course not, but you're stretching it out here. The OP is simply trying to say---no matter how insufficiently worded---that the IS is taking advantage of the occurrences going on in Ferguson. That's it. Case closed. No need to look into it.

I mean that's nice of you and all, but that wasn't what the OP said in the slightest. I fully agree that this is a propaganda opportunity - as is any time we don't live up to the values we profess to the rest of the world. You can't blame this on "insufficient wording" because that's not what Phil has said throughout this entire thread. OP is clearly stating that this man with a sign is supporting ISIS.

First the post is titled ISIS in Ferguson.

The issue is ISIS could get widespread support in Ferguson.

No. Not really a thing.

Its funny how liberals like to dismiss Non-Liberal news sources

The Daily Mail sucks because it sucks, but OP made it about liberal vs. "non-liberal."

If someone says ISIS is here, it doesnt necessarily mean they are members of ISIS but points to their support of ISIS.

Again OP believes the sign indicates support of ISIS, not just the ISIS is using it.

Quatermass you dont seem to get that, that guy could well indicate his support of ISIS.

I mean anything is possible, but that's the most unlikely of the answers. Still OP is insisting on it.

No one's claiming that ISIS was in Ferguson,

Except the title of the post.

but that a guy was holding a sign in support of ISIS

,
Again, insisting this.

and ISIS has used social media to recruit Black Americans to convert to Islam and join ISIS.

Kind of. This isn't actually likely (it's more about the propaganda and the look of it), and ISIS supporters in Europe aren't the same thing as ISIS as group but this is the closest thing to truth here.

So my point about "Obama is Socialist" not being in support of socialism is very relevant here. I appreciate that you're attempting to provide some apologetics, but I think they're misplaced and that the OP has earned the responses he got in this thread.

 

[Alceste]

Yeah they're using it as propaganda. That makes a lot of sense. We do the same thing to them (that doesn't mean we're wrong, or that they're cool people, just that that's how propaganda works.)


It doesn't however say or demonstrate anything about ISIS supporters being IN Ferguson, just tweeting about it. Nor does it demonstrate that the sign being held implied membership in ISIS rather than criticism of the police. (Occam's Razor suggests the latter.) The people mentioned in this article are from Europe, not Missouri.

You can go on about people dismissing the Daily Mail, FWIW, but it is not a well regarded newspaper, simply a large one. The Wall Street Journal is a well-regarded paper whose editorial page runs conservative (IIRC). Some people criticize it, but it won't be laughed off the forum. They're the "click bait blog" of British papers, and appeal to the xenophobic crowd in particular. We're talking British National Party, not just the more conservatives. Think Stormfront with a veneer of political respectability.

(Brits please correct me if you think I've overstated it, this is an outsider's perspective.)

It's a little more mainstream than BNP, but that's because racists are a little more mainstream than the BNP in England. Rural England in particular. London is very diverse and tolerant. That was my impression anyway, living in the south for a few years.

I didn't know anyone who actually bought the thing, but if you went out for a coffee or a curry, there was usually one sitting around in the restaurant.

 

[Drolefille]

And you are assuming that the man wasnt supporting ISIS.

If I walked down the street saying that "Jihadis are here" it could either mean that I am opposed to Jihadis and I am warning others of what I perceive as Jihadification of America or that I support Jihadis and I am warning others that we have come. Both are real possibilities and we cant dismiss either of them, especially considering how much ISIS is using social media to recruit Black Americans to convert to Islam and join ISIS, i wouldnt be surprised if some disillusioned Black American, Nation of Islam follower sympathized with ISIS.

And the main point of OP, was ISIS is using social media to recruit Black Americans.

Wouldn't it depend on context? You know, if you're at a protest of terrorism or what you're wearing, or other such things? You based your OP on the Daily Mail, attacked people for criticizing your source, and then are trying to backpedal.

 

[Alceste]

Honestly. Has anybody, anywhere, ever been transformed from a devout, practicing Christian liberal to an Islamic radical militant by a tweet?