ISIS is repeating what Mohammed did a 1400 years back.

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

. Raped even kids. Many islamic countries say Isis is not muslim - but for me it is like saying "Prophet Mohammed" is not islamic.

Good question

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

morphesium said: ↑
. Raped even kids. Many islamic countries say Isis is not muslim - but for me it is like saying "Prophet Mohammed" is not islamic
Muslim has to follow Muhammad
In his words
In his actions
It is well-known sayings of Muhammad
Ibn Umar that the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him said : ordered to fight the people until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah , and establish prayer , and pay zakat ; and if they did Asmoa me blood and money only to the right of Islam , and the self-employed God Almighty )
The murder of Jews confirmed Sunnah of the Prophet - peace be upon him
Sunnah of the Prophet - peace be upon him - with by them , namely murder , that is all the Muslims to go to their fortresses , saying : "It was a hearer obedient pray not only in age Quraizah " trapped and even landed on his rule , and the rule including Saad bin Maaz may Allah be pleased with him
He had called on God when he was wounded in the Battle of the parties to heal the chest of them saying: "Oh God, to do me even acknowledge the eyes of Quraizah " , who ruled them by virtue of God from above the seven heavens " to kill the men and divided the money and captive strains and women ," and that the Prophet - God bless him - dig their trenches in the city market and hit their necks in those trenches , and it was of whom shy Ben preach and heel bin lion in addition to the six hundred or seven hundred ( and Almkther their biographers say they were between eight hundred and NINE HUNDRED !)
( Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor forbid what God and His Messenger, nor condemn the religion of truth from those who were given the book until they pay tribute out of hand and they are submissive (29)
this is the Islam
Follow what he said Mohammed
And what did Mohammed
And it is written in the Koran
So Islam is terrorism and permanent threat to humanity
this is the Islam
Follow what he said Mohammed
And what did Mohammed
And it is written in the Koran
So Islam is terrorism and permanent threat to humanity

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Today i doubt - Did islam truly had a golden age? or did it stole the science and technology and arts from other civilizations and marketed as theirs?

The answer is yes
Islam and the Arabs stole from other civilizations , and said to be Islamic
The proof is
The invasion of Iraq
And the elimination of the remnants of the Chaldeans and Assyrians
And the destruction of the remnants of those civilizations
And also the invasion of Egypt and the elimination of the Copts and the Pharaohs
And also the invasion of North Africa and the elimination of the Amazigh civilization
And Albrberh in Libya
And also the elimination of the Syrians in Syria
And also the occupation of Spain and try to eliminate the Spaniards culturally

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Islam is coming to the world since the beginning of the spread of terrorism
Review and viewed the history of Islam
Are wars and invasions and the blood
Islam is going on and will remain with terrorism
But it can get rid of it when the Muslim able to think freely and refuses to declare membership of a terrorist to the devil

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Thy Lord inspired the angels, I am with you Fetbhetwa who believe I will in the hearts of those who disbelieve fear then hit over the necks and hit them all (12) That is because they resisted Allah and His Messenger, and If any contend against Allah and His Messenger, Allah is severe in punishment (13) Such is Vdhuqoh and the disbelievers torment of the Fireof those who disbelieve fear then hit over the necks and hit them allThese words of the Koran beating over the necks mean beheadings and slaughter

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Abu Jaafar said: the right thing to say in this be said: that God is faithful, their teacher how to kill the infidels and beaten by the sword: I wish you to know that these explanations Muslims
God is the teacher
Teacher how to hit and how to kill
The question remains
Do you think that this teacher teach peace ??to strike them over the necks, hands and legs. And saying: (over the necks), likely to be sought in and its heads, and likely to be sought in and to him from above the lashes necks, (56) shall be its meaning: the necks. If endured so, if you pardon the words of said, meaning: necks. If that is the potential of what we of interpretation, for us not to point them to some sense without some, but under the pretext must be recognized, nor argument indicates _khasos. So we must say that God is multiplying the heads of the infidels and their necks and their hands and feet, the owners of the Prophet prayed God him who witnessed him BadraAbu Jaafar said: the right thing to say in this be said: that God is faithful, their teacher how to kill the infidels and beaten by the sword: to strike them over the necks, hands and legs. And saying: (over the necks), likely to be sought in and its heads, and likely to be sought in and to him from above the lashes necks, (56) shall be its meaning: the necks. If endured so, if you pardon the words of said, meaning: necks. If that is the potential of what we of interpretation, for us not to point them to some sense without some, but under the pretext must be recognized, nor argument indicates _khasos. So we must say that God is multiplying the heads of the infidels and their necks and their hands and feet, the owners of the Prophet prayed God him who witnessed him Badra

 

[dust1n]

One of whom was claimed to be 120 years old.

Do you think that sources that claims they killed a 120 year old might also be wrong in some other details of the events?

Josephus claims that Jesus actually came back to life after three days...

"Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross,[9] those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day;[10] as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day."

Do you think that sources that claims men can rise from the dead after three days might also be wrong in some other details of the events?

Of course, what details you are referring to. It's entirely possible that a guy who actually thinks people can be 120 years old (at the time) was wrong about something other than age.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I disagree. What's important is to be honest about how people are currently converting what they believe into actions.

That is important. And the vast majority of people who have converted to Islam, or where born into it, do not support or condone the actions of groups like the Taliban, ISIS, or Boko Haram.

 

[icehorse]

That is important. And the vast majority of people who have converted to Islam, or where born into it, do not support or condone the actions of groups like the Taliban, ISIS, or Boko Haram.

As I understand it from polls, about 30% do condone the actions of these groups. They wouldn't themselves be violent, but they believe these groups are acting correctly.

Remember, it is a mistake to think of Islam as a religion; it is a conquest-driven, totalitarian ideology.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

As I understand it from polls, about 30% do condone the actions of these groups. They wouldn't themselves be violent, but they believe these groups are acting correctly.

Remember, it is a mistake to think of Islam as a religion; it is a conquest-driven, totalitarian ideology.

I have never seen a poll that puts the number that high (it generally ranges from 10% - 25%).
And the mistake is saying that something that has established doctrine, rituals, and dogma not a religion? Or are you simply unaware that the vast majority of Muslims do not believe in coerced conversion and do not believe Sharia applies to all (Surah Al-Baqarah 2:256)?

 

[RAYYAN]

If you knew your early Islamic history you would be fully aware that Muhammad continually preached to any who would listen that Jews had altered their holy books and that the Christians were wrong about Jesus and the Trinity. I shouldn't need to point out what he said and felt about the pagans in Mecca as his whirlwind trip to the Kaaba a few years after the battle above indicates the respect he had for the well established pagans in the region. All of these people slowly began to understand that this man was a clear and present danger to their way of life. My gut feeling is that, at first, they just thought he was crazy and so entertained his ideas... but then very slowly, he began to attract followers... and that got the Meccan's edgy enough to finally plot against him.

I know all this and it is Islamic History 101 for me but thank you.
The above mentioned verse has nothing to do with Christians, very little to do with Jews and the whole conflict was with Pagans in Mecca. It's true He was a thread for their Religion, trade,....etc. but so what! all He did was telling them they are wrong and advice them to follow him, in his point of view, He is telling the truth and asking people to follow him for their own benefit, regardless of how true that was, don't you think it is the right thing to do?

after 13 years, He left the city for them and started breaching else where, but they didn't leave him alone and followed him with all the harm they could, and decided to fight him in his new place and that is what 8:12 is all about.

There were also the raids against the Meccan caravan's by the early Muslims. These acts hardly endeared them to the people of Mecca and it is little surprise that eventually they put together a force to deal with the Muslims... which didn't go very well...

True, but before that, didn't the Meccans drive Muslims out of their land and homes? didn't they take their wealth? Muslims were just taking back part of what was stolen for them.

 

[MARCELLO]

As I understand it from polls, about 30% do condone the actions of these groups. They wouldn't themselves be violent, but they believe these groups are acting correctly.

Remember, it is a mistake to think of Islam as a religion; it is a conquest-driven, totalitarian ideology.

It will not be a fair comment to say Islam is not a religion,I condemn you. It is just another old religion of middle east and asia with many wrongs and unexplainables. I do not think the polls tell the truth about muslims,either: I work with them,spend my life with them,daily life explains the things better than statistics to me. Uneducated people's ideas are often not ideas but reflexes to something. Muslims know that they will be treated as 2nd class humans in almost every part of the world though they get the positions and ranks such as uni professors or doctors. There is a french hospital here where you can find all doctors educated in France for medicine,but if I have a chance to choose, my choice is always a Dr. Xavier rather than a Dr. Ismael which is just my prejudice,nothing else.

 

[RAYYAN]

I sincerely believe that the point of the OP was that ISIS is using the same *principles* and beliefs as Muhammad used. When you ask what should the Muslims have done, it seems to me that what you're saying is that they had every right to behead those 800 people. Did I misunderstand you?

Yes, you miss understood.
First, you missed the word " if We say you are right" at the beginning of my sentence
Second, I was not talking about the 800 who you claim they were killed, I was talking about the verse of the Quran you quoted (8:12) about the battle

 

[RAYYAN]

"Freedom of Religion" gets us to another sore point. Yes, yes, I know "there is no compunction..."

But what we see - in practice, in the world - is that inevitably, when Muslims become the majority in a population, all other religions are driven out. So it would appear from the last 1400 years that when a Muslim says "Freedom of Religion", it's fairly safe to assume that that translates to "Muslims want to be free to practice THEIR religion, and they'll work like crazy to stifle everyone else's religion"

I don't know what you mean but I am not here to defend people, I am here to clear the misconceptions that people have about Islam

 

[RAYYAN]

@
mahasn ebn sawresho,
I have no clue what you are trying to say!

 

[icehorse]

I have never seen a poll that puts the number that high (it generally ranges from 10% - 25%).
And the mistake is saying that something that has established doctrine, rituals, and dogma not a religion? Or are you simply unaware that the vast majority of Muslims do not believe in coerced conversion and do not believe Sharia applies to all (Surah Al-Baqarah 2:256)?

You keep saying "vast majority" when recent, large polls contradict your beliefs.

As far as my comment about Islam not being a religion, the point is that it is MUCH MORE than just a religion, and to refer to it as a religion is a mistake. Islam is a totalitarian ideology with a religious component. We wouldn't say that "a farm is a barn". A farm is much more than just a barn, but a farm typically has a barn as a component.

So, for example, to compare modern Islam to modern Christianity, is to make a farm vs. barn type of categorization error.

 

[icehorse]

It will not be a fair comment to say Islam is not a religion,I condemn you. It is just another old religion of middle east and asia with many wrongs and unexplainables. I do not think the polls tell the truth about muslims,either: I work with them,spend my life with them,daily life explains the things better than statistics to me. Uneducated people's ideas are often not ideas but reflexes to something. Muslims know that they will be treated as 2nd class humans in almost every part of the world though they get the positions and ranks such as uni professors or doctors. There is a french hospital here where you can find all doctors educated in France for medicine,but if I have a chance to choose, my choice is always a Dr. Xavier rather than a Dr. Ismael which is just my prejudice,nothing else.

See my comments above.

In addition, of course we would all agree that many Muslims do not have world conquest on their minds. But it is a mistake to think that conquest is a rare belief. In fact something like 30% of the world's Muslims do belief that Islam is meant to conquer the world.

 

[YmirGF]

I know all this and it is Islamic History 101 for me but thank you.
The above mentioned verse has nothing to do with Christians, very little to do with Jews and the whole conflict was with Pagans in Mecca. It's true He was a thread for their Religion, trade,....etc. but so what! all He did was telling them they are wrong and advice them to follow him, in his point of view, He is telling the truth and asking people to follow him for their own benefit, regardless of how true that was, don't you think it is the right thing to do?

One has to use extreme caution when pushing against the status quo. Muhammad sought to unseat those in power. Didn't they have every right to attack him? I'm not terribly interested in nit-picking over what a given sura was all about as I am far more interested in the big picture. Far too much distortion creeps into the discussion when we argue over what a couple of scant lines means. The backstory is often far more important.

after 13 years, He left the city for them and started breaching else where, but they didn't leave him alone and followed him with all the harm they could, and decided to fight him in his new place and that is what 8:12 is all about.

Even in Medina he remained a clear and present danger. Is this so hard to understand?

True, but before that, didn't the Meccans drive Muslims out of their land and homes? didn't they take their wealth? Muslims were just taking back part of what was stolen for them.

What a strange notion. I didn't know that if you stole something from me that gave me the right to steal something from you. Most instructive thinking, really.

 

[Godobeyer]

I can, but experience tells me it would be a waste of time. You would undoubtedly say some combination of:

- "oh, you're quoting a "weak" Hadith" - or -
- "oh, you're taking that Hadith out of context" - or -
- "oh, you misinterpreted those actions or sayings"

In other words, I will end up debating your personal interpretations as opposed to letting the words speak for themselves.

so that your problem that you don't get the lessons from so your experience ?

 

[dust1n]

In the words of Luis, the great RFer, paraphrased for a new scenario...

Man, whenever I see all the criticism of Islam, I forget exactly why I dislike Islam so much...