Islam and Pantheism...

[ZoyaHayat]

Dear Guys ...

I have a question:what does the religion Islam have to say of Pantheism?...

Pantheism is the belief that the creation is in the creator and vice versa...

Thank you xxx

 

[Madhuri]

Dear Guys ...

I have a question:what does the religion Islam have to say of Pantheism?...

Pantheism is the belief that the creation is in the creator and vice versa...

Thank you xxx

Hi Zoya,
from what I can gather, Islam is very dualistic. God is seen as separate from His Creation. Pantheism is the complete opposite of Islamic concept as it posits that the Creator and Created are non-different.

 

[ZoyaHayat]

Hi Zoya,
from what I can gather, Islam is very dualistic. God is seen as separate from His Creation. Pantheism is the complete opposite of Islamic concept as it posits that the Creator and Created are non-different.

Thank you Madhuri for your reply ...

But what i dont understand is...if Pantheism is a complete opposite concept to Islam-then why have many Saints in their poetry expressed Pantheism?...

For example:
A couplet by Saint Kabir mentioned in the Sri Guru Granth Saahib-please read verse 1:

Sri Granth: Shabad/Paurhi/Salok SGGS Page 1349

A couplet by Saint Farid Uddin Ganj-e-Shakar in the Sri Guru Granth Saahib-please read verse 74-75:

Sri Granth: Sri Guru Granth Sahib


This has confused me further more-many Muslims say these 'Sufi' Saints are Muslim...what i dont understand-if they are Muslim then how can they express a concept which is not within Islam? :S...

xxx

 

[ZoyaHayat]

I think Islam is Panentheistic not Pantheistic. The Koran says Allah is nearer to a man then his jugular vein, but it also portrays Allah as personal and above his creation.

Thank you Senedjem for your respnose ...

xxx

 

[Madhuri]

I think Islam is Panentheistic not Pantheistic. The Koran says Allah is nearer to a man then his jugular vein, but it also portrays Allah as personal and above his creation.

I think you'll find most Muslims will disagree. I've asked before, you see. Islam is not panentheistic, it is dualistic (at least mainstream Islamic sects).

 

[Madhuri]

Zoya, I think that Kabir was greatly influenced by Hinduism and mysticism. I do not know about the other personality you mentioned though.

 

[ZoyaHayat]

Zoya, I think that Kabir was greatly influenced by Hinduism and mysticism. I do not know about the other personality you mentioned though.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm...

Below are a few websites with information about Saint Farid Uddin Ganj-e-Shakar:

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Sheikh_Farid

Hadrat Baba Farid Gang-e-Shakar, r.a.

As for Saint Kabir-if you read those Sri Guru Granth Saahib verses i have given in my second reply to you-Saint Kabir uses the term 'Allah' for God in his Devotional poem...which makes it even more confusing to me-if Saint Kabir was a 'non-Muslim'(a Muslim who is influenced by Hinduism or Mysticism will be called a non-Muslim by the mainstream Muslims for sure) then why did he use the term 'Allah' for God? :S...and if he was a Muslim(as many Muslims says)-then that means he expressed an idea against the concept of Islam(which technically makes him a non-Muslim)-it dont make sense ...

xxx

 

[nameless]

hi and welcome back zoya,

Guru Nanak too used term 'Allah' for god, so Guru Nanak is also a muslim?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I think Sikhis view Allah, Brahman, and God all as the same. Their scriptures seem to say it doesn't matter if you call God- Brahman or Allah, or call yourself- Hindu or Muslim. The Sikhi dharma literally says all religions point to one truth

 

[ZoyaHayat]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm...

Below are a few websites with information about Saint Farid Uddin Ganj-e-Shakar:

Sheikh Farid - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia.

Hadrat Baba Farid Gang-e-Shakar, r.a.

As for Saint Kabir-if you read those Sri Guru Granth Saahib verses i have given in my second reply to you-Saint Kabir uses the term 'Allah' for God in his Devotional poem...which makes it even more confusing to me-if Saint Kabir was a 'non-Muslim'(a Muslim who is influenced by Hinduism or Mysticism will be called a non-Muslim by the mainstream Muslims for sure) then why did he use the term 'Allah' for God? :S...and if he was a Muslim(as many Muslims says)-then that means he expressed an idea against the concept of Islam(which technically makes him a non-Muslim)-it dont make sense ...

xxx

Not only that Madhuri...

Many 'so-called Muslim' Saints have expressed Pantheism in their verses...

For example:

Saint Sultan Bahu-please type in the webpage search bar 'creation' and you will see all the verses by Saint Sultan Bahu about Pantheism:

http://www.sultani.co.uk/

Saint Sachal Sarmast:

Sachal Sarmast: I search in the streets, I cast my sights

Saint Shah Abdul Latif Bhittai:

Shah Abdul Latif’s Poetry « Indus Asia Online Journal (iaoj)

So,that means technically they are'nt Muslims ...as many Muslims(as you Madhuri have also admitted) have accredited those Saints as Muslim-but here they are expressing such concepts which is opposite to the doctrines of Islam ...i myself have found the answer to my question Lol...

xxx

 

[ZoyaHayat]

hi and welcome back zoya,

Guru Nanak too used term 'Allah' for god, so Guru Nanak is also a muslim?

Thank you Nameless for your response ...

I know Saint Guru Nanak Dev used the term 'Allah' many times ...the point in actual i was trying to make was that-i believe all Saints are religionless because they use interchangeable terms to denote God and express their love for him/her...it would'nt do justice when Muslims say 'he is our Saint' or if a Hindu would say 'he is our Saint'...these very poems and verses of the Saints denote their religionlessness ...

xxx

 

[ZoyaHayat]

I think Sikhis view Allah, Brahman, and God all as the same. Their scriptures seem to say it doesn't matter if you call God- Brahman or Allah, or call yourself- Hindu or Muslim. The Sikhi dharma literally says all religions point to one truth

I agree with you Senedjem xxx

 

[ZoyaHayat]

i agree zoya...saints are always religionless..

but i dont think islam accepts these religionless people.....

I agree with you...

It's not fair of Islam ...

Glad i am religionless xxx

 

[TashaN]

I agree with you...

It's not fair of Islam ...

Glad i am religionless xxx

Islam is not fair because it doesn't accept what people come up with whatever it was?

 

[ZoyaHayat]

Islam is not fair because it doesn't accept what people come up with whatever it was?

Urmmmmmmm thank you Tashan for your reply...

There is a name for that 'whatever' and it is called Pantheism...

Please learn to nomenclate beliefs and concepts with respect...

And yes i feel Islam is very unfair in many ways...

xxx

 

[Reverend Rick]

*****Mod Post*****

Thread closed for Mod Review​

 

[Guitar's Cry]

***MOD POST***

Thread moved to Comparative Religions forum and reopened.
​

 

[TashaN]

Urmmmmmmm thank you Tashan for your reply...

There is a name for that 'whatever' and it is called Pantheism...

Please learn to nomenclate beliefs and concepts with respect...

And yes i feel Islam is very unfair in many ways...

xxx

That's a prejudice. You are claiming Islam is not fair because it doesn't fit with your beliefs. A Christian might come and claim Islam is not fair because we don't pray to Jesus or Mary, a Hindu might come and complain, how come Islam allow you to eat meat!!!

I would understand if you said that Islam is not the right religion for *you*, but i will never understand your generalizations.

 

[Storm]

That's a prejudice. You are claiming Islam is not fair because it doesn't fit with your beliefs. A Christian might come and claim Islam is not fair because we don't pray to Jesus or Mary, a Hindu might come and complain, how come Islam allow you to eat meat!!!

I would understand if you said that Islam is not the right religion for *you*, but i will never understand your generalizations.

I have to agree.

 

[Boethiah]

I am not a Muslim, but just from my own speculation I have reached the conclusion that the nature of God (how He manifests Himself) is impossible to know beyond a shadow of a doubt. But, God is omnipotent, so I'd imagine He can manifest himself in whichever way he wanted to. So He could be a pantheistic entity, or a more dualistic entity. In truth, if God is omnipotent, God is all of the different forms. They are simply labels we apply to Him.

But, that is just free thinking. I am not knowledgable in Islamic scripture, so I cannot provide any. But form my own guess, I'd say that Pantheism doesn't play a huge role in Islam, aside from maybe in a poetic sense.

Food for thought.