Islam and Women : The Head Scarf

[gnostic]

I still think the notion of putting any head-covering on women or girls as protection from rapes to be giving false sense of security and misleading.

As England stated, it doesn't prevent rapes in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Rapes will occur regardless if they wear them or not.

It is the men that need to be controlled, not the women. Instead of punishing the men who make unwelcome advances, they punished the women.

My main concern for the Muslim women is that in some countries that they are being arrested or punished for not wearing them. In Iran, the so-called fashion police arrested women who DO WEAR THE HIJAB, BUT THEY DON'T COVER ENOUGH. There are young women who wear what they believed to be more "fashionable" head scarves, but apparently that's not good enough for the Iranian president and all the conservative clerics.

Talk about stupidity in such law and stupidity of men in government and councils of clerics.

 

[Meow Mix]

I still think the notion of putting any head-covering on women or girls as protection from rapes to be giving false sense of security and misleading.

As England stated, it doesn't prevent rapes in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Rapes will occur regardless if they wear them or not.

It is the men that need to be controlled, not the women. Instead of punishing the men who make unwelcome advances, they punished the women.

My main concern for the Muslim women is that in some countries that they are being arrested or punished for not wearing them. In Iran, the so-called fashion police arrested women who DO WEAR THE HIJAB, BUT THEY DON'T COVER ENOUGH. There are young women who wear what they believed to be more "fashionable" head scarves, but apparently that's not good enough for the Iranian president and all the conservative clerics.

Talk about stupidity in such law and stupidity of men in government and councils of clerics.

Here's an ideal punishment for rapists.

You staple their hoo hoo dilly to a tree stump, light the tree stump on fire, and hand them a dull butterknife. They then have a choice.

 

[Badran]

I still think the notion of putting any head-covering on women or girls as protection from rapes to be giving false sense of security and misleading.

As England stated, it doesn't prevent rapes in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Rapes will occur regardless if they wear them or not.

Yes, hijab doesn't protect women from rape.

It is the men that need to be controlled, not the women. Instead of punishing the men who make unwelcome advances, they punished the women.

Who is they and what did they punish the women with? Ar you referring to the following part of your post about Iran, or something else?

 

[Sahar]

I still think the notion of putting any head-covering on women or girls as protection from rapes to be giving false sense of security and misleading.

As England stated, it doesn't prevent rapes in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Rapes will occur regardless if they wear them or not.

It is the men that need to be controlled, not the women. Instead of punishing the men who make unwelcome advances, they punished the women.

My main concern for the Muslim women is that in some countries that they are being arrested or punished for not wearing them. In Iran, the so-called fashion police arrested women who DO WEAR THE HIJAB, BUT THEY DON'T COVER ENOUGH. There are young women who wear what they believed to be more "fashionable" head scarves, but apparently that's not good enough for the Iranian president and all the conservative clerics.

Talk about stupidity in such law and stupidity of men in government and councils of clerics.

What! No concern for the women who are forced to take off their hijab and arrested for wearing niqab, in some countries?!

 

[Sahar]

Yes, according to the fact that we think hijab is a requirement, the woman not wearing it in our eyes would be not following god in this specific area, as do everybody else. None of us is doing everything we should do, so a woman wearing wearing hijab is not in any position to judge or pray for a woman that don't, any more than she should judge and pray for herself.

The beautiful thing about the Muslim community that we help each other to get closer and closer to Allah. When I am weak at a certain point, I need the help of my sisters to improve me at that point and pray for me. When another sister is weak at a point like that of hijab, I'll offer my help and pray for her and so on...

 

[Meow Mix]

What! No concern for the women who are forced to take off their hijab and arrested for wearing niqab, in some countries?!

I think that's ridiculous in most circumstances. Either people have religious freedom or they don't. The only rational excuse I can think of to force a woman to take off a face veil (I can never really think of any reason to take off a head scarf etc.) might be for instance at an airport or other tight security place where facial identification is simply prudent to have.

Other than that I'm with you: it is absolutely silly that anyone, anywhere tells women that they can't wear hijab if they want to.

 

[Badran]

The beautiful thing about the Muslim community that we help each other to get closer and closer to Allah. When I am weak at a certain point, I need the help of my sisters to improve me at that point and pray for me. When another sister is weak at a point like that of hijab, I'll offer my help and pray for her and so on...

Of course, I agree with your sentiment. The only problem is that hijab is such an obvious thing. Meaning that while of course each of us have our weaknesses, its not known or shared with everybody we meet and know. So, usually women not wearing hijab would get more of this stuff. So i was just kind of saying this as a general point, basing it on your words.

 

[beenie]

Of course, I agree with your sentiment. The only problem is that hijab is such an obvious thing. Meaning that while of course each of us have our weaknesses, its not known or shared with everybody we meet and know. So, usually women not wearing hijab would get more of this stuff. So i was just kind of saying this as a general point, basing it on your words.

absolutely. there are few Islamic practices that are more obvious than a headscarf/abaya/burqa, etc. beards don't count; sorry guys, but there are tons of non-Muslims who have beards, but not many non-Muslims with scarves, abayas, and niqabs.

 

[gnostic]

What! No concern for the women who are forced to take off their hijab and arrested for wearing niqab, in some countries?!

A woman, whether she be Muslim or not, should be able to dress as she please, IMO.

As to your your comments about been arrested for wearing niqab in some countries, I have not heard of such arrests. I have heard of ban being placed by the French government, but not of any actual arrest being made. Which countries are these?

 

[Meow Mix]

A woman, whether she be Muslim or not, should be able to dress as she please, IMO.

As to your your comments about been arrested for wearing niqab in some countries, I have not heard of such arrests. I have heard of ban being placed by the French government, but not of any actual arrest being made. Which countries are these?

That sickens me if it's true that people are being arrested for following their religion peacefully. As I've said I can see why a face veil might be a security lapse at someplace like an airport or government building (or something like that) but in all other cases that is utterly insane to deny that right.

 

[Autodidact]

Islam is a religion that puts a premium on purity. Purity of mind, body and soul. And anything that interferes with this purity (i.e. able to concentrate on God and worship Him and keep your priorities straight), Islam discourages, prohibits or tells you ways to go around such problems.

The main issue here is that Islam does not allow pre-marital conjugal relationships. The wisdom in this commandment is not, I think, lost on anyone. So, how to make sure this does not happen is what the entire issue is based on.

Now, this being the case, let us move onto Women. There is not difference between men and women is regards to their spiritual worth or reward from God. Each is judged equally based on their beliefs and actions in this world. That being said, onto the veil.

It is general knowledge that the more powerful a force, the more precaution must be taken to safeguard oneself from it. In the case of women, that force is the biological force of Sex. Extremely Powerful, to say the least. The force that ensures our continuation as a species would not be effective were it not so dominant in our psyche.

Now, Islam recognizes the power of sex, and instead of letting it run wild and run a man's life, provides means for him bring this force under control. For Islam wants to elevate a man from being a slave to his baser desires to loftier ideals goals. Firstly Islam tells men not to stare at women, nor freely mingle with them. This limits the chances of a man and woman being able to start a romantic relationship. Women are also told to wear the veil, to help facilitate this ordinance. The most attractive part of a woman is her hair. A bald woman is the biggest turn-off, and thus Islam tells woman to cover their hair when in public, so as not to tempt men and to help remind them of their duty to control their gazes.

This is the gist of the answer. The matter invariably turns to a question of women's rights and women should be allowed to wear what they want, men should control themselves, etc. Islam does not allow this. Islam acknowledges that a society can only work if everyone helps each other, and a pious society will only be able to stand if everyone works to help each other. The Quran says that believing men and women are friends of each other. Do friends devilishly tempt each other by displaying their charms to each other, tempting the other to break a commandment of God? No, friends help each other, facilitate ease for the other in reaching their goals, and a muslims goal is always to reach Allah. Sexual attraction to someone who is not "legal" for you in Islam (or halal) gives you no benefits. None. Instead, it merely causes you to burn on the inside, and incites you to sin.

So let me get this. In Islam, because men have a problem, women's rights have to be restricted? Wow, that's really unjust.

How does this sound: because men have difficulty being distracted by women, men should remain indoors and not allowed to travel without a woman's permission and chaperone? Only women should be allowed to study and work freely. Men's freedom should be severely restricted. This is all to protect men's relationship to God, and their own purity.

 

[Autodidact]

another point for women against the Islamic notion of the relationship between and sexes, head scarves, etc. is this:

What exactly does a woman want form society? How does she want to be viewed? Does she want to be respected for her views as a person and her character and intelligence, or does she want to be admired for her beauty and seen as an object of lust for men? The answer is always mixed. She has both needs, to be seen as an individual who is able to contribute to society and as a thing of beauty.

Islam provides both of these. In society, where a woman wants to be known for her intelligence and character (as does any man), Islam advocates wearing the veil, both as a reminder to her and others around her that the true worth of a woman (or man) in society is not based on sex appeal, but in the other things she contributes.

Sounds like men should wear scarves too, so that they can be viewed both for their intelligence and character, and for their beauty.

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

So let me get this. In Islam, because men have a problem, women's rights have to be restricted? Wow, that's really unjust.

How does this sound: because men have difficulty being distracted by women, men should remain indoors and not allowed to travel without a woman's permission and chaperone? Only women should be allowed to study and work freely. Men's freedom should be severely restricted. This is all to protect men's relationship to God, and their own purity.

Its the third time I say this on the same thread, but anyway can you please refer to my post Number 41:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2149855-post41.html

Thank you very much

 

[gnostic]

Head scarf is one thing, a face veil is something else. Covering the head with scarves was normal practice in biblical times, because the lived in arid condition for the most parts, therefore have more to do with protection from the sun than for decency sake. And face veil has different meanings at different times or places.

For instance, at the times of Abraham to Jacob, at the very least (I am not sure it is the same as the times of David or Jesus), covering the face with a veil was indication that the woman was a prostitute. I don't recall the chapter in the Genesis, but it was about Judah and his daughter-in-law, Tamara (I think that how her name is spelt), but I distinctly remembered that Tamara had covered her face.

I am not saying that the women covering today are prostitutes. I just saying that the practising of wearing veils have different meaning in some cultures.

 

[Cypress]

So let me get this. In Islam, because men have a problem, women's rights have to be restricted? Wow, that's really unjust.

How does this sound: because men have difficulty being distracted by women, men should remain indoors and not allowed to travel without a woman's permission and chaperone? Only women should be allowed to study and work freely. Men's freedom should be severely restricted. This is all to protect men's relationship to God, and their own purity.

Sounds like men should wear scarves too, so that they can be viewed both for their intelligence and character, and for their beauty.

As I always say, Burqa for men.

 

[Sahar]

Crazy world

Sick men are sick men

I might add sick women are sick women. You'll find craziness everywhere but hey 7otty fi batnek bate5a sefy (=just ignore) as the Egyptian proverb says.

 

[blackout]

What? She was sexually harrassing my sister and you want me to refrain from replying back?

Thats not how I work, when I see someone harassing my sisters I speak and when I do that I do it out loud. Wether it is with or against the laws, at least I did something.

Crazy world

Obviously I missed something in the post exchanges,
though a couple of clues leads me to believe
that the "she" accused of "harrassment" would be me.

Let me be clear that I "harrassed" no one.
I commented on an avitar, an IMAGE...
to make a POINT.

The POINT is,
the scarf does absolutely NOTHING
in and of itself
to stop "sex appeal".
The woman in the Avatar is LOVELY and ALLURING
regardless of the headwear.
I do believe in the case of that particular picture
the headwear actually makes her even MORE alluring.
She is VERY attractive.
The headwear is NOT working.
That, is the point.

Of course the rest of my post was a parody of sorts,
(the whole "make yourSelf UGLY and RIDICULOUS" idea)
which really would have been no odder than
suggesting that a woman wear a full body/face bag
to keep their sex appeal from men....
except that women already do this.

Now before I am purposely misRepresented again,
let me be clear,
if a woman wears a scarf for HERSELF...
for her OWN personal reasons
WHO would have a problem with that.
And why would I care?
If a woman feels more beautiful in a Scarf?
I'm ALL FOR IT.
I'm all for women feeling beautiful.
(Which also results in a woman who looks beautiful):yes:

But this whole thing of "hiding" the form of your female sexuality,
.... your arms, the general shape of your body, your hair, your face...
because men can't HANDLE it?

Who on earth would even want a WUSS of a man
who can't view females without Self Control.

I agree with a recent post.

It is the men who should hide themSelves,
stay indoors,
stay off the streets,
instead of the women.

The women are obviously the stronger sex.

 

[blackout]

I might add sick women are sick women. You'll find craziness everywhere but hey 7otty fi batnek bate5a sefy (=just ignore) as the Egyptian proverb says.

Yeah. I'm sick.

Thanks for your support.
You DO know
I am only supporting you as a woman, right?

no.
aparantely not.

Just put me on ignore why not.

 

[Aquitaine]

Allow me to clarify one thing, to me the Hijab is just the headscarf, the Niqab is the Saudi-type face covering which reveals only the eyes, and the Burki to my knowledge is an Afghani dress which covers absolutely everything except for a loosly-stitched segmeant near the eyes, so that you cannot see anything.

Now, I personally have no problem with the Hijab, I mean c'mon it's basically just a headscarf, the Niqab and Burka though are different issues, not because of the actual body dress but because of the identity-hiding face section.

One thing I must argue though is that I really, really don't acgree with this idea that the Hijab "preserves modesty/chastity/purity" etc, and that it's used as an effective counter-rape tactic (LOLWUT?). I also disagree that it prevents Men from perving on Women and somehow generates additional "respect" for them.

"Modesty" and ideas like that should be assessed through behavour and conduct, not dress sense. As we have seen with the many tribal areas of the World where Women spend all their time topless, and the Men don't even care about it.

 

[Aquitaine]

So let me get this. In Islam, because men have a problem, women's rights have to be restricted? Wow, that's really unjust.

How does this sound: because men have difficulty being distracted by women, men should remain indoors and not allowed to travel without a woman's permission and chaperone? Only women should be allowed to study and work freely. Men's freedom should be severely restricted. This is all to protect men's relationship to God, and their own purity.

We should also make it illegal for shops to have windows, in order to prevent criminals from being tempted to steal from them.