Islam-Homosexual Bashing (again)

[ADigitalArtist]

As I said earlier, it is not the person that is seen as the sin, it is the sexual act of homosexual that is what religions say is not a right way.

This is a functionally useless statement. It's the person who gets punished by these homophobic people who leverage anti-LGBT values into their religion.

But notice I say within the religious communities. If you are not spiritual or religious, do as you wish it does not matter.

Unless you have the displeasure of being where these religious communities feel they should have control over your actions and expressions. I.e. in a theocratic state, such as the OP, or as a kid growing up in these abusive households where gay kids are harassed, ostracized, put through torture to try and change them.

An other thing, some religious groups has changed the teaching to fit the humans so suddenly homophilia is ok. That was not in the original teaching. So it is human error.

Neverminding that a lot of the groups I'm talking about never had homophobia in them. Most pagan religions outside those in close contact with Abrahamism never had a problem with homosexuality. And Abrahamism had plenty of things that were problematic then and changed now that I'm sure you agree with. Such as the racism involved with values which forbade interracial marriage. Or the abuse inherant in child marriages. Being an 'original teaching' (which isn't what these religions suggest) doesn't mean it's wiser. It just means humans had hangups back then and injected it into the values during the time.

 

[Spirit of Light]

This is a functionally useless statement. It's the person who gets punished by these homophobic people who leverage anti-LGBT values into their religion.

Unless you have the displeasure of being where these religious communities feel they should have control over your actions and expressions. I.e. in a theocratic state, such as the OP, or as a kid growing up in these abusive households where gay kids are harassed, ostracized, put through torture to try and change them.

Neverminding that a lot of the groups I'm talking about never had homophobia in them. Most pagan religions outside those in close contact with Abrahamism never had a problem with homosexuality. And Abrahamism had plenty of things that were problematic then and changed now that I'm sure you agree with. Such as the racism involved with values which forbade interracial marriage. Or the abuse inherant in child marriages. Being an 'original teaching' (which isn't what these religions suggest) doesn't mean it's wiser. It just means humans had hangups back then and injected it into the values during the time.

Sorry to say it, but I disagree with almost everything you say here. Except for that I do not support violence toward anyone.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Sorry to say it, but I disagree with almost everything you say here.

What specifically and why?

Except for that I do not support violence toward anyone.

Me neither. Which is why threads like the OP exist, which you immediately got defensive about. It's challenging violent behavior by these religious communities. I'd really like to see more who say they don't support violence be quick to call it out, instead of making apologetics for them. I'll grant you that not every Muslim is homophobic, most world over have no problem with homosexuality and will argue strenuously that homophobia is not part of the original text. https://musliminstitute.org/freethinking/gender/islams-lgbt-allies
But the behavior described in the OP should absolutely be condemned.

 

[stvdv]

As I said earlier, it is not the person that is seen as the sin, it is the sexual act of homosexual that is what religions say is not a right way.

In spirituality they always say "never blame the person when he commits violence against others, but you can blame the act"
But this time you take it out of context, and put it in the wrong context, and misconstrue things; totally messed up
The gay person does not hurt others by his act, hence the above spiritual advice won't fly

Because when you condemn a personal feeling of a person, you do condemn the person, esp. knowing that he hurts nobody else

Anyway, it is none of your business to judge the feelings (you can't separate feelings from sex) of others.

IF you want to tell a gay person his sex act is a sin THEN you should tell all the straight persons that their sex act is also a sin

Good luck with that

 

[stvdv]

I do not support violence toward anyone

So, why be violent towards gay, why make this exception if you do not support violence?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

IT APPEARS that unabated homosexual bashing is occurring at asylum shelters at very high rates according to Dutch authorities, with security being reluctant to engage in serious intervention.
Open Season on Gays in Dutch Asylum Centers | Gates of Vienna
The Quran narrates the story of the "people of Lot" destroyed by the wrath of God because the men engaged in lustful carnal acts between themselves. Some hadith collections also condemn homosexual and transgender acts,[prescribing death penalty for male homosexual intercourse.LGBT in Islam - Wikipedia
So why is Islam homophobic?

Because the abrahamic tradition it stems from is homophobic.
But that just moves the question to why abrahamic tradition is such, off course.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

It is not homophobia, both Islam and Christianity in the Abrahamic religions teach the act of homophilia is a sin, not to be born as a gay or lesbian.
Why is the act a sin according to mostly all religion or spiritual teachings, it is seen as a lack of morality.

So one has to make sure that it is only the homosexual act of two men or two female that is seen as a negative/ lack of morality, not the living persons them self as human being.

Why do you ask? It has to do with how man and woman was created, to be two people who could make offspring to next generation. An other issue is the ego, that no matter what others say " I want it anyway" is a sign of not being able to restrict one self.

That is so nasty, especially if one indeed acknowledges that some people simply are born gay. Because the motivation for gay sex is the exact same as the motivation for heterosexual sex.

 

[Tambourine]

IT APPEARS that unabated homosexual bashing is occurring at asylum shelters at very high rates according to Dutch authorities, with security being reluctant to engage in serious intervention.
Open Season on Gays in Dutch Asylum Centers | Gates of Vienna
The Quran narrates the story of the "people of Lot" destroyed by the wrath of God because the men engaged in lustful carnal acts between themselves. Some hadith collections also condemn homosexual and transgender acts,[prescribing death penalty for male homosexual intercourse.LGBT in Islam - Wikipedia
So why is Islam homophobic?

Could it be possible that shoving people into tiny spaces, under stressful conditions, with effectively non-existent legal protection, could conceivably result in bad behavior running rampant and remaining unpunished?

Of course not, it must be because they have the incorrect religion!

 

[ppp]

Of course not, it must be because they have the incorrect religion!

It's because they have a religion that denigrates gays. It's not that they have the incorrect religion, but a religion that fosters at lease some incorrect and harmful beliefs. And people, Tambourine, take actions informed by their beliefs. This should not be controversial.

 

[Tambourine]

It's because they have a religion that denigrates gays.

If you actually believed that only Muslims are homophobic, or even that only religious people are, then I'm sorry to burst your bubble. Homophobia is distressingly widespread across a vast spectrum belief systems, including atheistic ones.

It's not that they have the incorrect religion, but a religion that fosters at lease some incorrect and harmful beliefs. And people, Tambourine, take actions informed by their beliefs. This should not be controversial.

Your model of what drives people's actions is so simplistic as to be effectively a caricature. Yes, people's beliefs often (but not always) inform how they act, but religion is only one of many building blocks to a person's beliefs.

And to argue that material conditions played absolutely no role at all here would be just absurd.

 

[Spirit of Light]

That is so nasty, especially if one indeed acknowledges that some people simply are born gay. Because the motivation for gay sex is the exact same as the motivation for heterosexual sex.

If a person does not follow a spiritual/religioues teaching there is no problem to have Gay sex, it is only for followers of a religion or spiritual teaching that it is not a morally good thing.
But if you look deeper in to the teaching, it also say that hetrosexual people should not cling to any sexual activity, but sex with opposite gender is the natural way to get offspring. And from the very beginning sex was not meant for pleasure, only to make offspring.

 

[McBell]

And from the very beginning sex was not meant for pleasure, only to make offspring.

Wow.
The "creator" really screwed that one up.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Wow.
The "creator" really screwed that one up.

That is your opinion

 

[ppp]

If you actually believed that only Muslims are homophobic, or even that only religious people are, then I'm sorry to burst your bubble.

Oh, ffs. If you are going to complain about my posts, then pay better attention to what I say. Do you see any use of "only" in my post? No,Tambourine, you do not. Did I use the definite article? No, Tambourine, I did not. I said that "they have a religion that denigrates gays." That statement is true. I don't need to enumerate every other (or any other) religion or belief system that denigrates gays in order to say that Islam does.

Your model of what drives people's actions is so simplistic as to be effectively a caricature. Yes, people's beliefs often (but not always) inform how they act, but religion is only one of many building blocks to a person's beliefs.

Again. Stop inserting. If I had meant 'religious beliefs', I would have said religious beliefs. I said beliefs. Unqualified. People's beliefs drive their actions. This is not a caricature. If I believe there is a snake in my house, that is going to drive my actions. If I adhere to the beliefs of a religion that claims that people with chin clefts are better than people without, this is going to drive my actions. Beliefs inform actions.

 

[McBell]

That is your opinion

Yes.
Yes it is.
It is my opinion on your opinion.

Was there some sort of point you were trying to make?
Cause if there was, it was completely lost.