Islam, how much do you really know about it?

[Judgment]

Alla Prima: And there lies what I see as the heart of the problem. Islam is not to be questioned. One would not be submitting otherwise. It's prophet and it's prophet's example is without fault.

Agree. And that is why I believe the thread you started "The Islamization of the free world" is closed (for right now). I am positive Muslims complained that their religion was being criticized . How dare we criticize a faith??? Easy - I live in a free land and question 'all' that I do not feel is right.

 

[.lava]

Article Twelve: Hamas in Palestine, Its Views on Homeland and Nationalism: Hamas regards Nationalism (Wataniyya) as part and parcel of the religious faith. Nothing is loftier or deeper in Nationalism than waging Jihad against the enemy and confronting him when he sets foot on the land of the Muslims. And this becomes an individual duty binding on every Muslim man and woman; a woman must go out and fight the enemy even without her husband’s authorization, and a slave without his masters’ permission. This [principle] does not exist under any other regime, and it is a truth not to be questioned. While other nationalisms consist of material, human and territorial considerations, the nationality of Hamas also carries, in addition to all those, the all important divine factors which lend to it its spirit and life; so much so that it connects with the origin of the spirit and the source of life and raises in the skies of the Homeland the Banner of the Lord, thus inexorably connecting earth with Heaven. When Moses came and threw his baton, sorcery and sorcerers became futile.

How does this figure in Islam,are they going against the Quran or is this legitimate?

Qur'an commands to fight those who fight you. breaking peace is against Islam. in case an army attacks your nation, you must defend.

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[YmirGF]

Qur'an commands to fight those who fight you. breaking peace is against Islam. in case an army attacks your nation, you must defend.

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But .Lava, you know as well as I do that "fighting" can also mean a mere quarrel over words. "Breaking peace" could also be construed as anything that questions Islam... as it is, after all, the religion of "peace", so if peace is broken, then Islam is being attacked.

The notion of defending against any attack is also somewhat questionable. You would think that such an illustrious genius, such as Muhammed [pbuh], would tell his followers to understand what they were doing that may well have resulted in being attacked.

 

[Luminous]

if all of us were to fight those who fought us, the fighting would never end...
An eye for an eye and soon everyone would end up blind.

 

[.lava]

But .Lava, you know as well as I do that "fighting" can also mean a mere quarrel over words. "Breaking peace" could also be construed as anything that questions... as it is, after all, the religion of "peace", so if peace is broken, then Islam is being attacked.

The notion of defending against any attack is also somewhat questionable. You would think that such an illustrious genius, such as Muhammed [pbuh], would tell his followers to understand what they were doing that may well have resulted in being attacked.

you are pointing the core of this issue. this is exactly what our problem is with some Muslims. they are ignoring verses of Qur'an. there are no gray tones, YmirGF. the coldest way to describe it is 'eye for an eye' rule. even though that is true, there are still rules. i mean if someone tortures you, that does not give you permission to torture him because torturing is forbidden in all conditions. no exceptions exist. on the other hand if you use words to attack Islam, then i would use words to defend Islam. a Muslim should not respond words with guns. Muslim should not ignore morals or rules of war. there are many rules. for that matter Hamas did wrong for example. because they hit civilians. according to rules of war, no matter what conditions are, a Muslim shall never attack civilians. we are not given freedom to make exceptions.

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[.lava]

if all of us were to fight those who fought us, the fighting would never end...
An eye for an eye and soon everyone would end up blind.

if someone tries to kill your parents, friends and you, you would defend. that's the fight it tells about.

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[Luminous]

if someone tries to kill your parents, friends and you, you would defend. that's the fight it tells about.

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There are many ways to stop such an occurence from happening.

 

[.lava]

There are many ways to stop such an occurence from happening.

what do you mean?


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[.lava]

But .Lava, you know as well as I do that "fighting" can also mean a mere quarrel over words. "Breaking peace" could also be construed as anything that questions... as it is, after all, the religion of "peace", so if peace is broken, then Islam is being attacked.

here is a verse i want to share with you. i think it is ignored by some Muslims and it really shows something very important;

4:140 And indeed He has revealed to you in the Book that when you hear Allah's communications disbelieved in and mocked at do not sit with them until they enter into some other discourse; surely then you would be like them; surely Allah will gather together the hypocrites and the unbelievers all in hell.

so in case when a Muslim hear someone mocking God and if he kills the guy, he would be breaking peace. because that is not command of Allah. Allah says leave their side until they change the subject which also means you can talk to same person later. we are not obligated to cut off our relationship. is it practiced by all of us? no doubt you know the answer.

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[Alla Prima]

Qur'an commands to fight those who fight you. breaking peace is against Islam. in case an army attacks your nation, you must defend.

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The very existence of that which was not Islam can and was used as justification for war by a people who had a rich history of warring before Muhammad ever arrived on the scene. Muhammad and his early followers financed their rise to power through robbing Jewish caravans and later were constantly at war to extend their empire. After the death of the prophet, Abu Bakr (the Caliph) organized the invasion of Syria. 4,000 peasants were massacred defending their lands. The idea that Islam only engages in self-defense is a charming idea but completely false.

What's really sad apart from the loss of life was the trampling under foot of cultures and languages as Islam sought to dominate the ME.

 

[Luminous]

here is a verse i want to share with you. i think it is ignored by some Muslims and it really shows something very important;

4:140 And indeed He has revealed to you in the Book that when you hear Allah's communications disbelieved in and mocked at do not sit with them until they enter into some other discourse; surely then you would be like them; surely Allah will gather together the hypocrites and the unbelievers all in hell.

so in case when a Muslim hear someone mocking God and if he kills the guy, he would be breaking peace. because that is not command of Allah. Allah says leave their side until they change the subject which also mean you can talk to same person later. we are not obligated to cut off our relationship. is it practiced by all of us? no doubt you know the answer.

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Is this all from the Gabriel spoken Quran? what kind of truth is "surely"? seams more of a temptation to prior beliefs to me. maybe the Devil CAN dress as an angel of light.
"surely they will suffer in hell for eternity anyway, so what worth are they?" seams kindof egotistical to me. That verse is also open to interpretation. I believe what it says is that .lava should not even read Alla Prima's words.

 

[Luminous]

what do you mean?


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defending your self. attacking before being attacked is not defence. stoping an attack from happening is. if such a man was there to kill you and your loved, then surely you would not let such a desire be accomplished. but why? it seams almost egotistical to stop what could perhaps be the will of Allah.

 

[Alla Prima]

defending your self. attacking before being attacked is not defence. stoping an attack from happening is. if such a man was there to kill you and your loved, then surely you would not let such a desire be accomplished. but why? it seams almost egotistical to stop what could perhaps be the will of Allah.

Muhammad wasn't a man of peace. He was a warrior who wanted an empire. Of course he'd find excuses to go to war. They needed the spoils of war.

 

[.lava]

Is this all from the Gabriel spoken Quran? what kind of truth is "surely"? seams more of a temptation to prior beliefs to me. maybe the Devil CAN dress as an angel of light.
"surely they will suffer in hell for eternity anyway, so what worth are they?" seams kindof egotistical to me. That verse is also open to interpretation. I believe what it says is that .lava should not even read Alla's words.

i think it is clear enough and anyone could understand it. that shows in time of Prophet Muslims were friends with disbelievers so that they were sitting together and having a conversation.

"they will suffer in hell"...yes many verses tell about people who would earn hell. this is really concern of individual. i mean, it is between you and your Rab not between me and you.

right and wrong is clear. if there are gray tones in life it is because of duality in one's mind. someone who knows what religion requires and what God commands would not have duality that divides one's mind.

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[HoldemDB9]

I would like to know, do Muslims believe that Allah will favour the Muslims over people of other world-views who have just as much faith, are just as true to their beliefs, are trying to be good people, and who are trying just as hard to come to true beliefs?

 

[Alla Prima]

I would like to know, do Muslims believe that Allah will favour the Muslims over people of other world-views who have just as much faith, are just as true to their beliefs, are trying to be good people, and who are trying just as hard to come to true beliefs?

Judge for yourself the words of the Koran.

Three translations:

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YUSUFALI: If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).
PICKTHAL: And whoso seeketh as religion other than the Surrender (to Allah) it will not be accepted from him, and he will be a loser in the Hereafter.
SHAKIR: And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.

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YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Take not into your intimacy those outside your ranks: They will not fail to corrupt you. They only desire your ruin: Rank hatred has already appeared from their mouths: What their hearts conceal is far worse. We have made plain to you the Signs, if ye have wisdom.
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Take not for intimates others than your own folk, who would spare no pains to ruin you; they love to hamper you. Hatred is revealed by (the utterance of) their mouths, but that which their breasts hide is greater. We have made plain for you the revelations if ye will understand.
SHAKIR: O you who believe! do not take for intimate friends from among others than your own people; they do not fall short of inflicting loss upon you; they love what distresses you; vehement hatred has already appeared from out of their mouths, and what their breasts conceal is greater still; indeed, We have made the communications clear to you, if you will understand.

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YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.
SHAKIR: O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

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YUSUFALI: In most of their secret talks there is no good: But if one exhorts to a deed of charity or justice or conciliation between men, (Secrecy is permissible): To him who does this, seeking the good pleasure of Allah, We shall soon give a reward of the highest (value).
PICKTHAL: There is no good in much of their secret conferences save (in) him who enjoineth almsgiving and kindness and peace-making among the people. Whoso doeth that, seeking the good pleasure of Allah, We shall bestow on him a vast reward.
SHAKIR: There is no good in most of their secret counsels except (in his) who enjoins charity or goodness or reconciliation between people; and whoever does this seeking Allah's pleasure, We will give him a mighty reward.

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YUSUFALI: Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah.
PICKTHAL: Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference to believers. Whoso doeth that hath no connection with Allah unless (it be) that ye but guard yourselves against them, taking (as it were) security. Allah biddeth you beware (only) of Himself. Unto Allah is the journeying.
SHAKIR: Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends rather than believers; and whoever does this, he shall have nothing of (the guardianship of) Allah, but you should guard yourselves against them, guarding carefully; and Allah makes you cautious of (retribution from) Himself; and to Allah is the eventual coming.

Briefly:

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PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers

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PICKTHAL: They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah

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PICKTHAL: Thou wilt find the most vehement of mankind in hostility to those who believe (to be) the Jews and the idolaters.

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PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! The idolaters only are unclean.

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PICKTHAL: Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.

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PICKTHAL: Unto Him is the return of all of you; it is a promise of Allah in truth. Lo! He produceth creation, then reproduceth it, that He may reward those who believe and do good works with equity; while, as for those who disbelieve, theirs will be a boiling drink and painful doom because they disbelieved.

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PICKTHAL: And they who disbelieve and deny Our revelations, such are rightful owners of hell.

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[.lava]

I would like to know, do Muslims believe that Allah will favour the Muslims over people of other world-views who have just as much faith, are just as true to their beliefs, are trying to be good people, and who are trying just as hard to come to true beliefs?

God does not favor anyone. being a Muslim or non Muslim is not reason to or not to earn hell. there are verses in Qur'an that shows that. it is so ignorant and arrogant to say "all [.......] would go heaven". religious leaders fool their people by saying that.

so answer to your question is no. whoever wishes to reach God while he is still alive earns heaven.

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[Alla Prima]

God does not favor anyone. being a Muslim or non Muslim is not reason to or not to earn hell. there are verses in Qur'an that shows that. it is so ignorant and arrogant to say "all [.......] would go heaven". religious leaders fool their people by saying that.

so answer to your question is no. whoever wishes to reach God while he is still alive earns heaven.

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Well yeah according to Islam but anyone not submitting to Allah gets tossed in Hell. Allah favors those who submit to him.

Ok what's that sound like to you all?

 

[K.Venugopal]

Muslims are convinced Islam is the only true religion because the Quran says so - a Quran they see as thoroughly consistent and having, miraculously, survived without a single dot being changed all these years. This absolute believe in the Quran is not surprising because Muslims learn to evaluate the Quran through the teachings of the Quran itself. This is inevitable as Muslims start learning their religion with the belief that the Quran is the word of God and there is no need to question the assertions of the Quran. A closed mind on the subject, you might say. A book in which God is portrayed as having created man in order to have ideal slaves [FONT=&quot] - And I have not created the Jin and man but[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]that they worship Me" Holy Quran 51:57 - [/FONT]is surely caricaturing God as an egoistical being. This assertion in the Quran can be questioned only if one is familiar with the portraits of God painted in other scriptures - in scriptures where the supreme ideal is not to be God's perfect slave but to discover the truth of our divinity - that we are God.

A surfeit of Sufism is called for in the Islamic world to break the shackles of blind faith. Rumi may be a curative.

 

[England my lionheart]

Shia Ashura Ceremony (Daily Mail)


I was going to say whats the crack with this ,anyway a Taxi driver has been given a suspended prison sentence for encouraging his 10 year old son to take part in the ritual.
I don't get it,have i missed something,do people really think this is what God wants them to do,is religion that stupid.