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Islam is not a religion of terror. Is it?

gnostic

The Lost One
I guess the bombings of Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran and Pakistan incite happiness.
Different president. And I unaware of there being bombings in Iran and Pakistan.

I have always being against the war in Iraq, by Bush junior. But think of this, is Iraq is now better off, with IS taking controlling much of Iraq and Syria?

According to the IS propaganda, they wanted to restore the old empire, the caliphate with them in power, even if it meant killing every single Muslims in those countries in achieving that goal.

The IS are deliberately targetting everyone, including civilians. The Muslims world-wide wanted the US, so they left, but the Iraqis have proven that they are ill-equipped to handle the IS extremists.

It is nice of you to blame the US, but it is not the Americans causing the Syrians and Iraqis to flee from their homes and their own countries.

What do you want ordinary Syrians and Iraqis do, accept them?

Is Obama a great president? I'd say no. Is he a good president? I would still say no.

But if you really want to blame on anyone, then blame it on Bush junior, for giving Obama to clean up the impossible mess that Bush had made.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Oh no i didn't miss a thing, i already am aware of these. These clans were working together with the Meccans to attack the muslims. By doing that the treaty is no longer valid. They were not attacked or expelled because they were Jewish but because of breaking the treaty between the muslims and them.

Sorry, but the whole biography, history, the traditions (which would include the hadiths) and the Qur'an tell of one side story. It tell a distorted history that Jews broke the treaties. Muhammad have drove one Jewish tribe after another, because they wouldn't accept him as a prophet.

I am know that you know that when Muhammad and Muslims used to pray, it was to pray in the direction of Jerusalem. Why change the direction of prayers to Mecca? Because Jews refused to accept him, and he had everything to gain from expelling them from Medina. He and his followers stole wealth and properties from Jews. He had completely ignored the one-fifth rule of the spoils.

Muhammad acted like gangster, stealing properties that didn't belong to him or to his followers. And they also raid merchant caravans, acting like bandits or pirates. They took everything during those raids, and sold anyone alive into slavery. Raiding caravans are not the act of self defence.

The Qur'an is just allow him to justify his crimes and his attacks on anyone who opposed him. And you are just condoning they have all committed by making excuses of "broken treaties", and yet he can change the rules when it suited Muhammad.
 

Tomorrows_Child

Active Member
Different president. And I unaware of there being bombings in Iran and Pakistan.

If you are unaware of that, then maybe go and do some research on the matter. I can't really hold discussions with people who claim to know what they are talking about and forming opinions based on half arsed knowledge of issues which are quite common knowledge to me or other people who actually form opinions based on fact.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
I guess the bombings of Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran and Pakistan incite happiness.

Yet that does nothing to help your argument that creating fear was the purpose for the bombings. A subjective reaction of individuals to an event does not make that event about fear.
 

Tomorrows_Child

Active Member
Yet that does nothing to help your argument that creating fear was the purpose for the bombings. A subjective reaction of individuals to an event does not make that event about fear.

You are telling me, that bombing an entire country, destroying cities, killing thousands upon thousands of civilians and decimating entire societies and cultures was not meant to incite fear? You think the people in Washington, politicians, generals, think tanks, military and geographical experts were not aware what their bombings would accomplish? You're telling me they weren't even partially motivated by the fear it would spread? Heck ,this whole idea of bombing entire cities was originated by the british and the Germans during WWII, in fact, the bombing of bulgaria by Britain was carried out on commands from Churchill to get Bulgaria in line and fear of the RAF was the way to go.

Shock and awe in Iraq was the modern equivalent of that.

You really need to stop being so naive and/or biased, you always post about violence against certain people but when it's about violence against Muslims, in your eyes it's ok or justified. Pull the other one.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
You are telling me, that bombing an entire country, destroying cities, killing thousands upon thousands of civilians and decimating entire societies and cultures was not meant to incite fear? You think the people in Washington, politicians, generals, think tanks, military and geographical experts were not aware what their bombings would accomplish? You're telling me they weren't even partially motivated by the fear it would spread? Heck ,this whole idea of bombing entire cities was originated by the british and the Germans during WWII, in fact, the bombing of bulgaria by Britain was carried out on commands from Churchill to get Bulgaria in line and fear of the RAF was the way to go.

Shock and awe in Iraq was the modern equivalent of that.

You really need to stop being so naive and/or biased, you always post about violence against certain people but when it's about violence against Muslims, in your eyes it's ok or justified. Pull the other one.
Look at the number of refugees fleeing from IS extremists, in the last 9 months. They weren't caused by the Americans...or the French. They were caused by IS.

You want to talk about fact, then pull your head out of the sand.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
You are telling me, that bombing an entire country, destroying cities, killing thousands upon thousands of civilians and decimating entire societies and cultures was not meant to incite fear?

There were military targets, there was collateral damage, there were cases in which military personal killed civilians, there case in which targets were identified incorrectly. However this does not mean every order nor the purpose of every act was to create fear. Fear was a result but not the purpose especially a generalized concept of fear.

You think the people in Washington, politicians, generals, think tanks, military and geographical experts were not aware what their bombings would accomplish?

Many thought it would accomplish their military and political objectives. If these people considered fear as a result then you admit purpose of their actions was not to create fear but that fear would be a byproduct as would economic instability, deaths of combatants and noncombatants, etc.

You're telling me they weren't even partially motivated by the fear it would spread?

Sure but you are using a generalized idea of fear. For a militant the fear of getting killed could be motivation for this individual to surrender or flee whatever group they are part of. Is creating fear with such a result is far more acceptable than just killing every combatant? Or not going after these people at all and let them run havoc? There are also consequence of actions people take which could create a situation with result in fear. A family or town hiding militants should fear attacks for they are aiding militants. This is different from creating fear in the civil population which are not allied, aiding or willing parties to militant or other combatants.


Heck ,this whole idea of bombing entire cities was originated by the british and the Germans during WWII, in fact, the bombing of bulgaria by Britain was carried out on commands from Churchill to get Bulgaria in line and fear of the RAF was the way to go.

No it was created by Sherman in the Civil War. It was called Total War. A civil population of an enemy state contributes to the war effort of said state. It provides war materials such as weapons, equipment, clothing, food, currency, etc. If civilians refuse to aid the state then the state and it's war effort collapse. If the civilians can not produce any or a limited amount of war material the state's military becomes less effective. This doesn't mean it is morally correct. However it lift the facade of complete innocence for grown adults that make choices which have consequences. Hence why people flee war zones as refugees


Shock and awe in Iraq was the modern equivalent of that.

It work against the Iraqi military but not so well against militants.

You really need to stop being so naive and/or biased, you always post about violence against certain people but when it's about violence against Muslims, in your eyes it's ok or justified. Pull the other one.

Says the one that doesn't understand the military tactics and their sources they are talking about.... Or the one that questions military tactics as if war should be fought with pistols at dawn. Seems like you have an idealistic idea of war. Hilarious. I never said war was not violent, you changed your strawman just to let you know. I just challenge your claim that every attack on Muslims has the purpose of creating fear as it primary purpose. All you have done is made a universal statement which you can never provide evidence.

I never said violence against Muslim is acceptable as a generalization. You produces a strawman in a vain attempt to discredit me. I just accept the fact that wars have nasty consequences which you seem to object to while offering no alternatives. It seems like you have a weak grasp of the realities of war. Go talk to IS about your ideas, I am sure you will convince them to stop killing your fellow Muslims.....
 
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mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
You are telling me, that bombing an entire country, destroying cities, killing thousands upon thousands of civilians and decimating entire societies and cultures was not meant to incite fear? You think the people in Washington, politicians, generals, think tanks, military and geographical experts were not aware what their bombings would accomplish? You're telling me they weren't even partially motivated by the fear it would spread? Heck ,this whole idea of bombing entire cities was originated by the british and the Germans during WWII, in fact, the bombing of bulgaria by Britain was carried out on commands from Churchill to get Bulgaria in line and fear of the RAF was the way to go.

Shock and awe in Iraq was the modern equivalent of that.

You really need to stop being so naive and/or biased, you always post about violence against certain people but when it's about violence against Muslims, in your eyes it's ok or justified. Pull the other one.
You talk about Iraq
I'm Iraq
If America used the military capacity to strike and kill civilians
You have a first anti-
But I was in military service during the 1991 war and the 2003 war
America did not hit any Iraqi civilians with premeditated
America destroyed infrastructure
For its goal of victoryWhen America came to Iraq and Afghanistan it has been a strategic goal of the oil wells
And the spread of freedom
God is far from the wars America
Are fighting for their own interests
This is different from the wars of the Muslims because they are fighting for God
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
Yes, just like the old testament, these beliefs must be done with for the sake of the world, I feel that we have out grown these backward beliefs, well, I hope we have.The Old Testament was a special to the people of the Hebrews
In the Old Testament we know About the Hebrew Jewish people
The Jews did not declare that their religion missionary
Jews say that Jehovah especially their people
But this is different from the Koran
Jews say they are the chosen people of God
And the Koran learn them
He said you are the best nation raised for people
There ignorance of the facts in the Torah
Yes, just like the old testament, these beliefs must be done with for the sake of the world, I feel that we have out grown these backward beliefs, well, I hope we have.
 

ether-ore

Active Member
Whatever peaceful tendencies Islam may have in times past (and it is debatable that it was peaceful), it has evolved into a terror organization. I will never forget when the Shaw if Iran was ousted and those Americans were taken hostage. The Iranians that worked along side the Americans in that corporate office and acted as friendly associates while working, turned on the Americans when the Ayatollah Khomeini came to power. Here's the thing; When the Jihadists are in power, even the more "peaceful" Muslims will turn militant in order to save their own heads. Islam is dangerous and antithetical to peace and freedom.
 

Useless2015

Active Member
Whatever peaceful tendencies Islam may have in times past (and it is debatable that it was peaceful), it has evolved into a terror organization. I will never forget when the Shaw if Iran was ousted and those Americans were taken hostage. The Iranians that worked along side the Americans in that corporate office and acted as friendly associates while working, turned on the Americans when the Ayatollah Khomeini came to power. Here's the thing; When the Jihadists are in power, even the more "peaceful" Muslims will turn militant in order to save their own heads. Islam is dangerous and antithetical to peace and freedom.
Iranians are also the only ones so far in history that attacked the most holy city in Islaam. Iranians are fireworshipping pagans who have zero to do with Islaam.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
Iranians are also the only ones so far in history that attacked the most holy city in Islaam. Iranians are fireworshipping pagans who have zero to do with Islaam.
And the Kaaba is a pagan shrine, Allah is a Arab pagan deity and you worship a meteorite.

Glass houses and all. So don't start.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
Your lord and saviour refered to God as Ellah. I guess he was referring to the pagan arab deity aswell.:)
No, Jesus referred to God as "Abba", which means "Father". I doubt Arabic even existed in the 1st century. Regardless, I do not think the Christian and Islamic deities are the same entity.
 

Useless2015

Active Member
No, Jesus referred to God as "Abba", which means "Father". I doubt Arabic even existed in the 1st century. Regardless, I do not think the Christian and Islamic deities are the same entity.
Aramiac did exist and that was the language spoken by Jesus. Aramiac is part of the same family of languages as Arabic and Hebrew.
And you know whats funny? Abba means father in Arabic aswell.

And i agree, the Christians believe in a made up 3 in 1 god invented by the Romans.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
Aramiac did exist and that was the language spoken by Jesus. Aramiac is part of the same family of languages as Arabic and Hebrew.
And you know whats funny? Abba means father in Arabic aswell.
I said Arabic didn't exist, not Aramaic. Muslims don't call God "Father" and get uppity when people do.

And i agree, the Christians believe in a made up 3 in 1 god invented by the Romans.
If you want to go there, I could easily say that you worship the devil, according to my beliefs as a Gnostic.
 

Useless2015

Active Member
I said Arabic didn't exist, not Aramaic. Muslims don't call God "Father" and get uppity when people do.

Arabic did exist ofcourse, it was an oral language that's all.




If you want to go there, I could easily say that you worship the devil, according to my beliefs as a Gnostic.

The devil does not ask to feed the poor, to help the orphans. To free the slaves, to abstain from alcohol, gambling, lies, hatred, foul language, greed, injustice etc.
 
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