Demonslayer
Well-Known Member
As the American Hillbillies would say "God, Family, Country."
The idea of putting some mystical cosmic overlord before my wife and kids is disgusting to me.
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Islam: Religion of Peace or Religion for War?
- Thread starter Marsh
- Start date
As the American Hillbillies would say "God, Family, Country."
The idea of putting some mystical cosmic overlord before my wife and kids is disgusting to me.
Agondonter
Active Member
OurCreed
There is no God but Allah
Well said.
OurCreed
There is no God but Allah
Islam means submission, more specifically, it is a religion of submitting to God's will.
Unjust violence is not in accordance with God's will, and sitting around doing nothing when your people are being killed is also not submitting to God's will.
Islam is a religion and way of life which can be understood from the Qur'an, which is the word of God Himself. From that, you can understand what you want to know about Islam. The Qur'an presents to you what type of god God is, and how you should worship Him.
Over and over again, the Qur'an commands the reader to be good, to forbid evil and indecency, to treat parents, relatives, neighbors, and the poor with kindness. To be friendly with those people who do not believe in your belief, and to defend yourself against those who attack you first. To not start hostilities, to avoid violence at all costs, and to be just in all matters, even if you have to go against yourself or your loved ones.
Once you know what the Qur'an teaches and commands, it's not difficult to realize what submission to God is all about.
Unjust violence is not in accordance with God's will, and sitting around doing nothing when your people are being killed is also not submitting to God's will.
Islam is a religion and way of life which can be understood from the Qur'an, which is the word of God Himself. From that, you can understand what you want to know about Islam. The Qur'an presents to you what type of god God is, and how you should worship Him.
Over and over again, the Qur'an commands the reader to be good, to forbid evil and indecency, to treat parents, relatives, neighbors, and the poor with kindness. To be friendly with those people who do not believe in your belief, and to defend yourself against those who attack you first. To not start hostilities, to avoid violence at all costs, and to be just in all matters, even if you have to go against yourself or your loved ones.
Once you know what the Qur'an teaches and commands, it's not difficult to realize what submission to God is all about.
I don't know...I
It is politically correct to say, "Islam is a religion of peace," however, the reality is something else. The Quran, Sunnah and the Hadith all have many verses not just condoning killing non-believers, but encouraging it. Politically sensitive commentators criticize the calls for jihad of the (Islamic extremists) and go on by saying... they have hijacked a peaceful religion. Apologists always seem to state that jihad is a personal internal battle (which is indeed one form of jihad) but it is certainly not the only one. Killing non-believers is one of the five types of jihad and all five forms of jihad are considered just as important. While Christians have perverted the Gospel in the past (i.e.,Crusades, Inquisition etc...) one cannot cite anything in the Gospel of Jesus Christ to justify any of these horrible periods of human history. What is so concerning about Islam is the texts do justify killing in the name of Allah. Islam clearly states it wants to make the entire world Islamic and it soon be the largest religion in the world. It is be interesting to see how Christians and Jews will be treated when the majority of the world is Islamic...we will really see is Islam is a religion of peace. I pray for my Muslim bothers and sisters, they have been misled about the true history of Muhammad and Jesus. I feel so many Muslims are misled by their religious leaders and are fixated on the human addiction of earning salvation. No matter how many rote prayers one utters it is only by God's grace through Jesus Christ that any of us can hope to have salvation.
Jabar
“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
blue taylor
Active Member
What is just to one may be murder to another.You yourself are misled, tell me one verse in Qur'an that promotes killing unjustly.
Jabar
“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
Exactly, i agree.
But making wrong suppositions is not correct. Explicitly Qur'an never promotes in the context of what he said.
I believe most Muslims are loving and peaceful people that want to get closer to God and are more devoted than most Christians I know...still
I do think; however, Islam is dangerously anti semitic, anti Christian and devoted to global domination focused on imposing sharia law. Any religious text can be taken out of context and used as a club so please enlighten me if I am in error...this is why we are all participating in this forum. An issue I have with debating Islamic text is which texts are cited...My understanding is earlier verses in the Quran are believed to be cancelled out by later verses in a process called abrogation or progressive revelation or another term is called Mansukh or Nosik?. It is very convenient for apologists to use more benign (earlier) verses knowing full well the early verses were rendered moot by the later verses.
Here are a few examples of Anti semitic and violent verses
The Quran and the traditions Surah 5 verse 64 Yousif Ali
Amongst them (the Jew) Allah have placed enmity and hatred to the day of judgment...
Allah hated the Jews so much that he cursed them and turned many into apes and swine
Surah 7, verse 166 Yousef Ali.
Surah 2 verse 65 Yousef Ali
The Hadith- Mohammed said the last hour would not come until the Muslims would fight against the Jew and kill them until the Jew would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and the stone or tree would say the servant of Allah there is a Jew behind me come and kill him.
Seemingly condoning rape
Sura 23 verse 6 and Sura 70 verse 30 . Quran states worshipers guard their private parts except from their wives and whom their right hand possessed. These are women taken during battle. The Muslim soldiers were hesitate to rape the captive women because their husbands were still alive but Mohammed indicated Allah most high sent down forbidden from you are women except your wive and those whom your right hand possess.
Saheeb Bukari
Saheed Muslim
End Times
Muslims believe the Mahdi will arise and Jesus will return as a Islamic fundamentalist and give us a choice to convert to Islam or have our heads lopped-off. Jesus will destroy all the crosses to demonstrate that he is not God.. There are so many similarities to the Mahdi and the Christian Anti Christ it is alarming but I guess that is another string?
I do think; however, Islam is dangerously anti semitic, anti Christian and devoted to global domination focused on imposing sharia law. Any religious text can be taken out of context and used as a club so please enlighten me if I am in error...this is why we are all participating in this forum. An issue I have with debating Islamic text is which texts are cited...My understanding is earlier verses in the Quran are believed to be cancelled out by later verses in a process called abrogation or progressive revelation or another term is called Mansukh or Nosik?. It is very convenient for apologists to use more benign (earlier) verses knowing full well the early verses were rendered moot by the later verses.
Here are a few examples of Anti semitic and violent verses
The Quran and the traditions Surah 5 verse 64 Yousif Ali
Amongst them (the Jew) Allah have placed enmity and hatred to the day of judgment...
Allah hated the Jews so much that he cursed them and turned many into apes and swine
Surah 7, verse 166 Yousef Ali.
Surah 2 verse 65 Yousef Ali
The Hadith- Mohammed said the last hour would not come until the Muslims would fight against the Jew and kill them until the Jew would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and the stone or tree would say the servant of Allah there is a Jew behind me come and kill him.
Seemingly condoning rape
Sura 23 verse 6 and Sura 70 verse 30 . Quran states worshipers guard their private parts except from their wives and whom their right hand possessed. These are women taken during battle. The Muslim soldiers were hesitate to rape the captive women because their husbands were still alive but Mohammed indicated Allah most high sent down forbidden from you are women except your wive and those whom your right hand possess.
Saheeb Bukari
Saheed Muslim
End Times
Muslims believe the Mahdi will arise and Jesus will return as a Islamic fundamentalist and give us a choice to convert to Islam or have our heads lopped-off. Jesus will destroy all the crosses to demonstrate that he is not God.. There are so many similarities to the Mahdi and the Christian Anti Christ it is alarming but I guess that is another string?
Marsh
Active Member
"The reality is that the Islamic State is Islamic. Very Islamic. Yes, it has attracted psychopaths and adventure seekers, drawn largely from the disaffected populations of the Middle East and Europe. But the religion preached by its most ardent followers derives from coherent and even learned interpretations of Islam. Virtually every major decision and law promulgated by the Islamic State adheres to... “the Prophetic methodology,” which means following the prophecy and example of Muhammad, in punctilious detail."
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/
The claim that ISIS is not truly Islamic is false. It may not be your brand of Islam, but it is Islam. These monsters follow the Koran, as the article above states, "in punctilious detail." This is Islam as it existed in Mohammad's day. The article has much more to say about why this is so, and if true -- and I believe it is -- then the real problem is the Koran itself.
Agondonter
Active Member
You are an atheist and I am a theist, but on this we agree.
In March 1786, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams went to London to negotiate with Tripoli's envoy, ambassador Sidi Haji Abdrahaman (or Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja). When they inquired "concerning the ground of the pretensions to make war upon nations who had done them no injury", the ambassador replied:
"It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every mussulman who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise. He said, also, that the man who was the first to board a vessel had one slave over and above his share, and that when they sprang to the deck of an enemy's ship, every sailor held a dagger in each hand and a third in his mouth; which usually struck such terror into the foe that they cried out for quarter at once."
Hearing that, Jefferson decided to read the Koran as the best source of all things Muslim. After reading it, he knew that 18th century Americans were in danger from what we call today conservative, Wahhabi-type, radical Islam and resolved to fight instead of paying tribute to the the Barbary pirates.
Marsh
Active Member
Just wanted to say that when I was a little kid my favourite cartoon was Mighty Mouse, minus the horns and pointed tail.
And I love your "... but it is the second mouse that gets the cheese." I look forward to using that little ditty in some small gathering and coming off as very clever.
Marsh
Active Member
We could probably also agree that if all Muslims converted to Christianity the world would become a largely peaceful place. In fact, this is what I would like to see.
Interesting, I was unaware of this. Makes me want to read a biography on Jefferson.Agondonter said:
Akivah
Well-Known Member
You can already see how Christians and Jews are treated in current Muslim majority countries. They are forced to pay jizya, they are treated as second class citizens, they are not allowed to hold governmental positions. Construction of new churches or synagogues are forbidden. Plus almost all Jews have been expelled from Muslim majority countries. We can expect the same treatment if G-d forbid, Islam becomes the dominant religion in the entire world.
Milton Platt
Well-Known Member
Quran 4:89 – Death to infidels
Quran 5:33 – Death to infidels
Quran 9:29 – Death to infidels
Quran 4:34 – Justification for the abuse of women
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Marsh
Active Member
I had forgotten about this, but looked up the incident and found a Wikipedia article on the story.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Quran_desecration_controversy
I can't imagine Christians ever behaving in such a fashion over rumors that a Muslim had desecrated a Bible. It just wouldn't happen. Did you know that it is considered improper to set another book, of any description, on top of a Koran? I wonder, if it was said someone at a US military base had ordered Bibles to be set on top of Korans, if this would this cause riots in the Middle East?
Marsh
Active Member
You may have left out a few. I hear there are some 100 passages in the Koran that call for violence. Not sure where I saw this.
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