• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Islamic Extremism: Do you agree?

tomspug

Absorbant
There are some defining characteristics of the current Islamo-Fascist jihad that some people might not disagree with:

1) The United States is imperialistic.
2) Freedom promotes immorality.
3) Religion promotes morality.
4) Western culture is anti-religion.
5) A perfect culture is ruled by religious law.
6) Violence is necessary to destroy its enemies.
7) Secularism is an enemy of religion.
8) There is only one God and Muslims are his people.
 

sandandfoam

Veteran Member
Take out the first one, sub christian for muslim in pt.8 and it sounds like the views held by plenty of Christians.
 

Yes Man

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
There are some defining characteristics of the current Islamo-Fascist jihad that some people might not disagree with:

1) The United States is imperialistic.
Perhaps. But America is no Rome.
2) Freedom promotes immorality.
Morals are different for everyone.
3) Religion promotes morality.
Again morality is different for everyone.
4) Western culture is anti-religion.
No.
5) A perfect culture is ruled by religious law.
:areyoucra What defines a perfect culture?
6) Violence is necessary to destroy its enemies.
There are others ways to render an enemy harmless.
7) Secularism is an enemy of religion.
I don't think so.
8) There is only one God and Muslims are his people.
It's not as if you're the only group to claim this.
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
I agree that religion promotes morality. I think most religious people would agree with that.

The others are definitely untrue.

Regards,
Scott
 

kai

ragamuffin
There are some defining characteristics of the current Islamo-Fascist jihad that some people might not disagree with:

1) The United States is imperialistic.
2) Freedom promotes immorality.
3) Religion promotes morality.
4) Western culture is anti-religion.
5) A perfect culture is ruled by religious law.
6) Violence is necessary to destroy its enemies.
7) Secularism is an enemy of religion.
8) There is only one God and Muslims are his people.
where did you get your characteristics or is this your own list
 

fullyveiled muslimah

Evil incarnate!
There are some defining characteristics of the current Islamo-Fascist jihad that some people might not disagree with:

1) The United States is imperialistic.
2) Freedom promotes immorality.
3) Religion promotes morality.
4) Western culture is anti-religion.
5) A perfect culture is ruled by religious law.
6) Violence is necessary to destroy its enemies.
7) Secularism is an enemy of religion.
8) There is only one God and Muslims are his people.


This list a bit ill-conceived is it not? I mean for number
1..Alot of people who aren't muslims feel that the US government is imperialistic or at least retain many traits of it

2 Not necessarily, and many christians think that, are they islamo-fascists?

3 To many it does, not everyone would agree obviously.

4 To a certain degree it is, there is a definite turn in the outlook on religion. Mainly that it is unecessary for manikind in this day and age. Take a look around RF and you'll find those that feel exactly that and they aren't muslim, in fact many do not belong to any religion at all.

5 What's a perfect culture?

6 Not all the time, but if that is true then the US is fascist islamo or otherwise since that's how they deal with enemies...

7 Not in every aspect

8 There is nothing worthy of worship besides Allah and Muhammad is His messenger....that's my story and I'm sticking to it. If I'm wrong I'm wrong and if I'm right Alhamdulillah.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
1) The United States is imperialistic.

While the US does not typically occupy foreign territory, as did empires in the past, it does in many other respects behave like an imperial power.

2) Freedom promotes immorality.

A lack of freedom and openness probably promotes immorality to a much greater extent than does freedom and openness. Study the immorality of the Soviet leaders, for instance.

3) Religion promotes morality.

This is an extremely pervasive myth -- but a myth nonetheless.

4) Western culture is anti-religion.

American culture for the most part welcomes and embraces religion.

5) A perfect culture is ruled by religious law.

Bunk.

6) Violence is necessary to destroy its enemies.

Violence is the first resort of fools.

7) Secularism is an enemy of religion.

If secularism was indeed an enemy of religion, religion would not flourish in the US. But religion does flourish in the US. So, how can secularism be an enemy of religion.

8) There is only one God and Muslims are his people.

I'm very skeptical of this claim.
 

Somkid

Well-Known Member
I don't agree with that statement at all.

1. The USA is a capitalistic society

2. Freedom is confined to the boundaries of the law and there are repercussions for breaking the law.

3. The United States is the most religious of all the Western countries and 47% of the population believe in the rapture.

4. Western culture has the highest percentage of religious people in the world with the Spanish population alone.

5. Who's religion should we rule with? Perhaps Buddhism, than there would be no need to answer any of these questions and we could all live in peace and be compassionate to one another?

6. Violence is the first response of the ignorant and uneducated.

7. Secularism is irrelevant and also is evident in Islam.

8. Well, they will have to fight that one out with the Jews.

I believe most religions have the potential to be extreme it just depends which idiot is put in charge.
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
There are some defining characteristics of the current Islamo-Fascist jihad that some people might not disagree with:

1) The United States is imperialistic.
We are the worlds only super power, so I can understand this view.
2) Freedom promotes immorality.
I cannot disagree.
3) Religion promotes morality.
Yes it does.
4) Western culture is anti-religion.
For the most part, yes.
5) A perfect culture is ruled by religious law.
Nothing is perfect, but religious law is just.
6) Violence is (sometimes) necessary to destroy its enemies.
See quote.
7) Secularism is an enemy of religion.
Yes it is.
8) There is only one God and (everyone is) his people.
See change in quote.
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
From: The Daily Star - Opinion Articles - Toward a definition of 'Islamic fascism'

"This nation is at war with Islamic fascists who will use any means to destroy those of us who love freedom," President George W. Bush said last week after Britain announced it had foiled a plot to blow up airliners over the Atlantic. I have been pondering since then his description of the enemy. What are "Islamic fascists," and does this phrase make sense in describing America's adversaries?

The judicious columnist's answer is, of course, "yes" and "no." A look at the history of fascism produces some startling parallels to the revolutionary movements that have swept Iran and other Muslim countries over the past several decades. But the phrase is misleading, both in its sweeping reference to Islam and in its evocation of another century and another war.

One of the old college textbooks gathering dust in my basement is Ernst Nolte's "Three Faces of Fascism," a classic study of the social forces that created fascist movements in France, Italy and Germany during the 1920s and 1930s. It's a dense book, but it concludes with one unforgettable insight. Fascism, Nolte said, is "resistance to transcendence." By that, he meant that fascism was a rebellion against the liberating but destabilizing transformations of modern society.

In the countries where it took root, fascism began as a middle-class assault on the liberal elites who were creating that era's version of globalization. Jews were a special target, but they were also symbols of a larger internationalist movement. In one passage, Nolte described the focus of fascist protest in language that might apply to today's globalized world: "The leading class performs its task of establishing the technical and economic unity of the world, and emancipating all men for participation in this undertaking, in ever new political and intellectual compromises with the hitherto ruling powers: It is the society of synthesis."

The fascist revolt against "transcendence" was driven in part by rage against the perceived corruption of the European elites, who were thought to have grown rich during the booming, inflationary years of the 1920s at the expense of the hard-working middle class. The final malign motivation in Germany was shame and indignation over the nation's defeat in World War I. Fascism gave ordinary people an explanation of what had gone wrong in their lives - and someone to blame.

I do see many of these same factors in the growing popularity of radical Islam in the Middle East. The baseline for this movement remains the Iranian revolution of 1979, which exploded in the region's most modern and, if you will, "transcendent" state. Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi's Iran was rushing to embrace the global economy. Its elite was liberal, secular, international - and also wretchedly corrupt. Ordinary Muslims felt, with some justice, that they were being left out of the spoils of this new Iran - that their hard work was being used to buy mansions on the Cote d'Azur. That radical populism lives on in President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, dressed in his ostentatiously humble golf jacket.

I remember how that revolutionary indignation swept the Middle East in the early 1980s, when I first began covering the region. The most popular preacher in Cairo in 1981 was Sheik Kishk, who would ridicule the corruption and Western ways of Egyptian President Anwar Sadat and his family. A few months later, Sadat was murdered by Muslim terrorists.

Today's Muslim radicals, like the Nazis in Germany, gain support by promising dignity for a people who feel shamed by defeat in war. That's the appeal of Hizbullah's leader Hassan Nasrallah: The Arabs feel they have suffered 40 years of military humiliation from Israel. Nasrallah offers the tonic of defiance and, for the moment at least, a sort of victory. That makes him a hero, even though he brought on the ruination of Lebanon.

Back to Bush and his "Islamic fascists." In many ways, this phrase does capture the rage that fuels America's enemies. What is most pernicious about the movement is that, as with European fascism, it has made Jews the symbol for larger forces that confound angry Muslims. This is perverse: The corrupt elites who obstruct Iranians, Egyptians, Syrians and Saudis today aren't Israeli Jews but their own rulers and their legions of fixers and bagmen.
Yet I balk at the term. The notion that we are fighting "Islamic fascists" blurs the conflict, widening the enemy to many if not all Muslims. It's as if we were to call Hitler and Mussolini "Christian fascists," implying that it is their religion, not resistance to transcendence, that is the root cause of the problem. The revolution that began in Iran in 1979 must be contained so that it doesn't destabilize the region more than it already has. But it will only be broken from within, by people who are at last ready to transcend.

 

McBell

Admiral Obvious
you have to pay for this article , are you on commision from the daily star
Or is it that the computer he is using has a subscription and he is unawares that others have to pay?

This happens lots of times when people post from a library or school ISP.
 

tomspug

Absorbant
I'll post my thoughts. I think that the Islamic religion in general (like Christianity) feels threatened by secularism, which is the thought that prompted this post. And yes, the list is crude, but I feel it correctly sums up the major driving factors behind groups like al-qaeda.

But really, religion SHOULDN'T feel threatened by secularism. If the religion is legit, it should have nothing to fear from a society that promotes freedom, because the truth will present itself. And you can't expect EVERYBODY to believe what you believe. This is why these extremist groups feel like they need to use violence, because they have this warped view that a perfect society means constructing a man-made society where everyone has the 'freedom' to believe the correct religion, promoted by the government.

Oh, and yes, I was quite amused by the similarities between current American Christian views and extremist views. But I think this is simply a case of two religious groups who are very passionate about their beliefs and have faith in the positive influences it has on culture. However, one group stands by principles of free-choice, the other takes extreme action. The two groups are QUITE different in this respect and an excellent example of how we are defined solely by the choices of action we make.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Take them all out, save #8, but alter it to:
Islam is the only true faith, specifically (insert sect here). All other's who do not follow this must die.
That seems to sum them up well.
 

Smoke

Done here.
There are some defining characteristics of the current Islamo-Fascist jihad that some people might not disagree with:

1) The United States is imperialistic.
2) Freedom promotes immorality.
3) Religion promotes morality.
4) Western culture is anti-religion.
5) A perfect culture is ruled by religious law.
6) Violence is necessary to destroy its enemies.
7) Secularism is an enemy of religion.
8) There is only one God and Muslims are his people.
There's not much getting around #1. All the rest are pure crap.

Take out the first one, sub christian for muslim in pt.8 and it sounds like the views held by plenty of Christians.
Fundamentalists come in different varieties that all hate each other, but from the outside, any one of them is pretty much the same as any other one.
 
Top