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Islamic Jihad

Audie

Veteran Member
The laws and commandments of a Religion is defined in its Holy Book, not by the adherents or their actions.

Nonsense. If any of it were defined, there would not
be so many opinions. So many inconsidtencies and
contradictions.

People wrote the books. There is nothing "holy" in
them.

A book does nothing on its own. People have to
read it and figure what it means.

And, as a rule, each figures he has the true version.

Hadnt you noticed this?
 

Audie

Veteran Member
The author? In many of these accounts the author is unknown and not the recipient of a revelation from God. In one instance the author is purported to have recorded tye event some 200 years after it occurred so I question its authenticity as it dies not accord with what the Prophets teach.

We cannot be sure of the authenticity of any of the phrases in the Old or the New Testament. What we can be sure of is when such references or words are cited or quoted in either the Quran or the Bahá'í writings.
(4 July 1947 to an individual believer)

So you did not address the justification you
gave for killing babies "in self defense".
 

iam1me

Active Member
There was atrocities committed by both sides. War is war and it is far from humane. I'm not in defense of Christianity or saying the Christians were on the right side of this war, more to point out our history is one of religious war. It doesn't matter what the scripture say. What matters is that religion has provided man with the motivation to expand their control of others, in the "name of God".

I'm also not saying this is the Christianity or Islam of today, however I am saying it is a good thing it is not.

I'd disagree with that assessment. Mankind, as a whole, is prone to sin. In the hands of sinful men, religion becomes one more thing that they can abuse and corrupt for their own ends. Whether religious or non-religious, it should come as a surprise to no one that there are those who would use religion for personal gain and power.

That, however, does not mean that that is the purpose, intent, or value of religion. A scalpel's purpose is for surgery, to save and improve people's lives who are suffering from injury or disease. In the right hands, a doctor will use it as intended and help people. In the wrong hands, you get a bunch of dead bodies. The latter case does not invalidate or lessen the purpose, intent, or value of a scalpel in the right hands.

Now, different religions have different philosophies, intents, goals, etc. I won't say that all religion is fundamentally good - as I think there are religions, or at least sects within the various religions, which are fundamentally dangerous. That said, religions like Christianity exist to help people, to do what is right and good, and to teach others to do what is right and good. Indeed, the scriptures tell us that we were created for the purpose of doing good works. We are to love all - even our enemies who curse us. We are to give of ourselves to help those in need. We are taught that mercy is greater than justice. etc.

When evaluating whether various deeds are truly representative and inline with the intent of the religion under which people claim to act, we must compare those actions against what the religion actually teaches. If they murder in the name of God - does God actually call for them to murder, or does he tell them that it is a sin? When people defend racism under the name of God - what do the scriptures actually say? There is no Jew nor Gentile, Female nor Male, all are equal in Christ, Christ died for all, love one another, etc.
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
Nonsense. If any of it were defined, there would not
be so many opinions. So many inconsidtencies and
contradictions.

People wrote the books. There is nothing "holy" in
them.

A book does nothing on its own. People have to
read it and figure what it means.

And, as a rule, each figures he has the true version.

Hadnt you noticed this?
How about the Laws are defined, but, certain people have misinterpreted them to misuse them for their own corrupted desires? Have you thought this could be the reason?
 

The_Fisher_King

Trying to bring myself ever closer to Allah
Premium Member
The laws and commandments of a Religion is defined in its Holy Book, not by the adherents or their actions.

I disagree. A religion is a living, changing, constantly evolving thing that is not confined to this or that holy book. It is as much to be found in the lived experiences of its adherents.
 

Notanumber

A Free Man
I disagree. A religion is a living, changing, constantly evolving thing that is not confined to this or that holy book. It is as much to be found in the lived experiences of its adherents.

The whole basis of Islam is that it is non-changing and therefore cannot be reformed.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
What did the oil embsrgo do?

The embargoes caused an economic recession, rationing and price controls in the US. In Japan it shifted their industry away from oil. The US was considering a military invasion as a resolution.


The embargo was targeted at nations which support Israel so was not even done for economic reasons.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
How about the Laws are defined, but, certain people have misinterpreted them to misuse them for their own corrupted desires? Have you thought this could be the reason?

You re just rephrasing what I said but
trying to hold on to the claimthat there
is one "true" version. If anyone could ever
figure out what it is? :D

And I sayeth again: IF the laws were
actually defined they would not have
endless competing versions, each
justified with cogent apologetics, each
saying they got it right and all the others
are misrepresenting it.

"Corrupted desires" probably comes into it
here and there.

"One True, all else is
corrupt desire" ? Is that what all 40k
Xian sects say of eachother?

Which one got it right? Mormons? JW?
NOOOO, I bet it is chubrchachrist!

Sheesh. Who needs Islam as a corrupt
foe when baptists have catholics to
denounce?
 
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Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
Defend, yes, defend. Every country has a defense depattment,
yes, armies are for defense, nobody would go out and
start a war.

I don't think USA started war against vietnam and Iraq for defend,that's was assault.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
I don't think USA started war against vietnam and Iraq for defend,that's was assault.

You missed the context of why I said that.
One of our heros of the Faith was justifying
Hebrew slaughter of babies in the bible,
as defense.

As foe "assault", for what did purposr would
the US go to war in Iraq and Vietnam.
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
You missed the context of why I said that. One of our heros of
the Faith was jusyifying Hebrew slaughter of babies in the
bibke, as defense.
Ah, thanks for clarify

I disagree with what you though ;)
 

The_Fisher_King

Trying to bring myself ever closer to Allah
Premium Member
If Islam was only just a religion it would stand a better chance of reformation but it has a lot more baggage to it than that.

I wasn't talking about reformation of a religion's doctrines 'on paper', I was talking about the fact that all religions, Islam included, are so much more than doctrines that one can read in a holy book or books etc. They are living traditions, the sum of all their adherents' ways of interpreting, understanding and expressing their religion and its associated cultural expressions. You can read about a religion's apparent doctrines in a book but that won't tell you very much about how a particular religion's adherents actually live their religion. Very few stick by 'the book' when it comes to how they live their religion. That's sometimes out of ignorance of what the book says, but that hardly matters if we understand a religion as an evolving tradition that depends on the practices of its adherents, not what a particular book says (or is purported to say).
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Nonsense. If any of it were defined, there would not
be so many opinions. So many inconsidtencies and
contradictions.

People wrote the books. There is nothing "holy" in
them.

A book does nothing on its own. People have to
read it and figure what it means.

And, as a rule, each figures he has the true version.

Hadnt you noticed this?
So you did not address the justification you
gave for killing babies "in self defense".

I explained that I don’t believe it’s authentic.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
So you did not address the justification you
gave for killing babies "in self defense".

Here is what I’m trying to explain.

The Bible is not wholly authentic, and in this respect is not to be compared with the Qur'an, and should be wholly subordinated to the authentic writings of Bahá'u'lláh (Shoghi Effendi)
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
Your opinion of me isn't the point. I've made a series of claims. In a debate, that's what you need to focus on, the claims, not your personal junk.

you don't make the rules for forum discussion!!!
 

Audie

Veteran Member
I explained that I don’t believe it’s authentic.
You dont think the Old Testament is authentic
Christians kinda think it is, but-
Good example of how everyone has his own version.

But we reach agreement! Of course it is not authentic!
The OT is almost entirely faity tales.
 
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