Islamophobia

[Raymann]

You're a sad human being (talking about Nakosis) and the fact that @Raymann liked what you wrote is just as disgusting. I'm good on this Islam bashing thread.

Sorry to disappoint you but I didn't give a "liked" to Nakosis post, maybe you should pay closer attention to what you're reading.

I do not belive "Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day ....." Has anything to do with physical fight or killing others, it means try to get the unbelivers or those who do not believe in a God to believe so they can be saved too, or help those who believe, but has gone astray.

You have a twisted way of interpreting the English language.
That is the worst attempt to convince anybody that the word "fight" means "convince" or "help" or anything other than what it was written in the Quran.
Are you saying it is a bad translation?
The word used was "fight", no way around it.
I didn't say it meant to kill, I just used it as it was translated from the Quran.
Now if you ask me, I do believe it means fight physically and when you fight physically you can end up killing your opponent. We are talking about fighting on the battlefield, and that means that killing is part of the deal.
Do you know that Muhammed spent most of his life after the revelations on the battlefield?
Why are you so surprised this means fighting on the battlefield. That was very normal on those days.
You have a good soul but this is not about you, this is about the real meaning of what the Quran meant to say.

 

[stvdv]

I do not belive "Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Mes8senger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - " Has anything to do with physical fight or killing others, it means try to get the unbelivers or those who do not believe in a God to believe so they can be saved too, or help those who believe, but has gone astray.

Jihad can in war times mean fight others, but in peace time it means fight your own faults and lack of wisdom. fight to leave the unwholsome and become wholesome.

To twist everything in the Qu`ran to be something evil is false belief too (IMHO)

it means try to get the unbelivers or those who do not believe in a God to believe so they can be saved too, or help those who believe, but has gone astray.

Unfortunately the Koran is quite explicit to be violent (at least the english words used in Koran, I can't translate them differently), hence I can never follow Koran blindly.

The message I learn (try to figure out what a good God might want me to see) is "Teach each other some good morals and values how to behave in a humane way"

Unbeliever has nothing to do with God, but has everything to do with truth and righteousness, so with morals and values in life.

No need for Atheist to believe in God (otherwise you belittle his chosen path), enough to believe in acting as a humane human being

 

[Spirit of Light]

Sorry to disappoint you but I didn't give a "liked" to Nakosis post, maybe you should pay closer attention to what you're reading.
You have a twisted way of interpreting the English language.
That is the worst attempt to convince anybody that the word "fight" means "convince" or "help" or anything other than what it was written in the Quran.
Are you saying it is a bad translation?
The word used was "fight", no way around it.
I didn't say it meant to kill, I just used it as it was translated from the Quran.
Now if you ask me, I do believe it means fight physically and when you fight physically you can end up killing your opponent. We are talking about fighting on the battlefield, and that means that killing is part of the deal.
Do you know that Muhammed spent most of his life after the revelations on the battlefield?
Why are you so surprised this means fighting on the battlefield. That was very norman on those days.
You have a good soul by this is not about you, this is about the real meaning of what the Quran meant to say.

If you think i twist your words. Look at your own way of writing, You are the expert in twisting other peoples words.
I do not say English translation of the Qu`ran is bad, but when we red the Qu`ran depending on our meaning behind words we can read different things. And i do not read it as a holy war,or fight (kill) in daily life because you find someone who do not belive the same as you (muslims)

Yes i know Muhammad was a warlord before his revelation of Allahs word,But honestly i do not think he continued to kill, or killed in Allah`s name.`That ideology can have been added later of those who do not understand the word of Allah.
A spiritual fight is always within our self,it is not about killing others or harm others because they do not believe as we do. and that count for Muslims too.
It is mostly Right-wing fear that creat te illusion of Islam being an evil path since you do not see that the fight is with in each muslim, not about fighting others.

 

[stvdv]

Unbeliever has nothing to do with God

IMHO:
"Unbeliever in God" I read as "Unbeliever in humane values and morals". So it's all about truth and righteousness. Luckily some Scriptures still tell us "Truth is God", so Koran is not totally cryptic, but one needs a bit of creativity to see non violence in seemingly violent verses.

And I can understand that in wartime a person "sees" and "hears" words from "God" with "war-glasses", so message is a bit war-colored.
(And of course in time of war there is need of war-glasses and war-messages also)

Some would say "The messenger was still human after all". I can agree with that.

Still the message is very valuable, just don't follow it blind (to avoid problems). And anyway, that is what life is all about "learning and evolution" (both material and spiritual)

"Do unto others what you want them to do to you" normally takes care of misinterpretation, unless you have lost feeling, empathy, compassion etc.

 

[stvdv]

Do you know that Muhammed spent most of his life after the revelations on the battlefield?

No.

Good to know though, puts Revelations in perspective. I can't blame God for being cruel having given cruel verses. Just some last minute advice and suggestions it seems to me, for people ready to fight; instructions are not needed when all goes well

Do you know IF He was on the battlefield before he received the Revelations? Would give some perspective on "what kind of Receiver God used"

Do you know IF He was on the battlefield during the timeframe in which He received Revelations? Would give even more perspective.

Might even be possible He added some extra verses Himself, because we all know that some people fancy using "authority of verses" (I don't say He did, just exploring any possibilities, so that I get a better picture of Koran and understand the context of history).

I might have believed Koran blindly, if Islam was only "Religion of Peace". But the start was already about war as you already said. So how can people call it "Religion of Peace?"

Even nowadays in name of Allah some act cruel, hence I would call myself a fool if I would believe blind.

 

[Pastek]

To make matters even worse, any land owned by Muslims is to be considered eternally "Muslim land".

Lebanon : "The region eventually was ruled by the Ottoman Empire from 1516 to 1918"

Lebanon gained independence in 1943, establishing confessionalism, a unique, Consociationalism-type of political system with a power-sharing mechanism based on religious communities

Lebanon's unwritten National Pact of 1943 required that its president be Maronite Christian, its speaker of the parliament to be a Shiite Muslim, its prime minister be Sunni Muslim, and the Deputy Speaker of Parliament and the Deputy Prime Minister be Greek Orthodox.

 

[Wandering Monk]

So, what percentage of Muslims support the stoning of adulterers?

What percentage of Muslims support the execution of apostates?

 

[stvdv]

So, what percentage of Muslims support the stoning of adulterers?

What percentage of Muslims support the execution of apostates?

My guess the percentage might be higher than you think

Quite disturbing news on september 11 2019: Muslims teach their children in Muslim schools in the Netherlands:
"Unbelievers deserve the death penalty"
(This hit the news last week: 50 schools teaching this to thousands of Muslim children = large percentage)

Dutch is the country of freedom and everything is allowed
But my guess is that soon Muslims might get a few restrictions
(This is of course not a fact, I can not prove it. But above is a fact)

 

[Nakosis]

You're a sad human being and the fact that @Raymann liked what you wrote is just as disgusting. I'm good on this Islam bashing thread.

So you don't discriminate against the Christian idea that Jesus is God? Or the idea of witchcraft? Or the atheist idea that there is no evidence of any Gods?

If so, I doubt you'd be much fun in a debate.

 

[Wandering Monk]

According to a Pew survey in 2014, more than half of Muslims say that Sharia is the revealed will of God.

More than half believe that Sharia should be the law of the countries they live in. Of those supporting this:

about a third believe it should apply to non-Muslims as well,
about a third believe that adulterers should be stoned,
about a third believe in the death penalty for leaving Islam.​

These are not insignificant minorities!

 

[stvdv]

According to a Pew survey in 2014, more than half of Muslims say that Sharia is the revealed will of God.

More than half believe that Sharia should be the law of the countries they live in. Of those supporting this:

about a third believe it should apply to non-Muslims as well,
about a third believe that adulterers should be stoned,
about a third believe in the death penalty for leaving Islam.​

These are not insignificant minorities!

I would call it even significant, disturbing and dangerous numbers calling for immediate action to be taken

 

[Raymann]

Yes i know Muhammad was a warlord before his revelation of Allahs word,But honestly i do not think he continued to kill, or killed in Allah`s name.

Well we don't know much about Muhammed's life before he started getting Allah's revelations but we do know that after that was when he became a warlord in his efforts to spread the religion. You have a nice way of interpreting things but I have to say it doesn't resemble at all what I read in the Quran.
I try to stay honest to what I read and try hard not to impose my own feelings in an effort to embellish the story to satisfy my expectations. I think you should do the same.

honestly i do not think he (Muhammed) continued to kill, or killed in Allah`s name.

Then you need to update your readings about the life of Muhammed.

A spiritual fight is always within our self,it is not about killing others or harm others because they do not believe as we do. and that count for Muslims too.

Yes I agree, that's what I find distressing about the Islamic world: the oppression and lack of freedom of expression that is common in that part of the world.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Well we don't know much about Muhammed's life before he started getting Allah's revelations but we do know that after that was when he became a warlord in his efforts to spread the religion. You have a nice way of interpreting things but I have to say it doesn't resemble at all what I read in the Quran.
I try to stay honest to what I read and try hard not to impose my own feelings in an effort to embellish the story to satisfy my expectations. I think you should do the same.
Then you need to update your readings about the life of Muhammed.
Yes I agree, that's what I find distressing about the Islamic world: the oppression and lack of freedom of expression that is common in that part of the world.

Again you misunderstand my word i belive.
I do not put my own feelings in any religious texts i read Be it from Qu`ran or Buddhist suttas. I read and understand differently then you do. And so far i have had no Muslim hurting me even i discussed many many times with them even in their own mosque.
Those who try to stop people from speaking have not understood the message of Allah. Many imams today do make people think killing is right to do But when you ask those imams about the content of Qu`ran they can only recite but not know the truth behind the words. That is the problem not Islam or Muslims in it self.

And yes i have nothing against Islam or muslims

 

[Raymann]

Quite disturbing news on september 11 2019: Muslims teach their children in Muslim schools in the Netherlands:
"Unbelievers deserve the death penalty"
(This hit the news last week: 50 schools teaching this to thousands of Muslim children = large percentage)

If this is happening in a western country then can you imagine what is happening between close doors in Islamic countries?
I don't even want to think about it.
The problem is that when somebody is brave enough to step up and denounce what's going on then he is called an Islamophobe (Geert Wilders).
We need to wake up.

 

[Spirit of Light]

If this is happening in a western country then can you imagine what is happening between close doors in Islamic countries?
I don't even want to think about it.
The problem is that when somebody is brave enough to step up and denounce what's going on then he is called an Islamophobe (Geert Wilders).
We need to wake up.

Well it is not only Islamic countries that is a problem today, Just look at America they are the one who "must" involve them self in "saving" Islamic countries by Americanizing them. a VERY bad thing to do

 

[Raymann]

And so far i have had no Muslim hurting me even i discussed many many times with them even in their own mosque.

Of course, I believe you, why would any Muslim try to hurt you when he listens to your "Alice in Wonderland" interpretation of Islam. How could they?
They would love that all of us believe what you believe.
The problem is how do we go from "Alice in Wonderland" Islam to the reality that we then see on the streets of any Muslim country?
How come nobody listens to your version of Islam?
Does your version of Islam really exist or is it just an illusion?
It is not just ISIS or Boko Haram, there are millions of violent Muslims around the world who are angry and are pointing their guns at us and we don't have any idea why.
How do we teach them your "Alice in Wonderland" version of Islam to them?
Is it too much to ask?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Of course, I believe you, why would any Muslim try to hurt you when he listens to your "Alice in Wonderland" interpretation of Islam. How could they?
They would love that all of us believe what you believe.
The problem is how do we go from "Alice in Wonderland" Islam to the reality that we then see on the streets of any Muslim country?
How come nobody listens to your version of Islam?
Does your version of Islam really exist or is it just an illusion?
It is not just ISIS or Boko Haram, there are millions of violent Muslims around the world who are angry and are pointing their guns at us and we don't have any idea why.
How do we teach them your "Alice in Wonderland" version of Islam to them?
Is it too much to ask?

I donot reject that some terrorist who call them self muslims are guilty of evil actions, but i see the billion of muslims who are very good and honest people and my focus are at them. evilncan never be won over by more hate it can only be won over by being better then them to not spread hate and delusion. so my way is the soft way, Not to accept evil but to win over them with compassion and showing that even they might harm me, i do not hate them.

 

[stvdv]

If this is happening in a western country then can you imagine what is happening between close doors in Islamic countries?
I don't even want to think about it.
The problem is that when somebody is brave enough to step up and denounce what's going on then he is called an Islamophobe (Geert Wilders).
We need to wake up.

I know a woman in Holland from Iran. She had to escape because her husband wanted to kill her (something with burka I think)
So yes, I finally I can imagine what is happening between close doors in Islamic countries. For sure I know I don't want their habits in Holland
Like Putin said in the news (out of the top of my head): Muslims you are welcome if you adjust to our culture. Free to go if you desire Islam culture
Putin has balls, that's needed to handle macho Muslim culture. Women seem much sweeter is my feeling

Now this is happening (since 4 days) I won't be surprised Geert Wilders will be the hero soon
The Muslims blew it. Dutch people are really too good, and too tolerant.

I read the AIVD (General Intelligence and Security Service) was investigating Islam in Holland now (seems terrorism to me)

 

[Raymann]

Well it is not only Islamic countries that is a problem today, Just look at America they are the one who "must" involve them self in "saving" Islamic countries by Americanizing them. a VERY bad thing to do

Americans don't try to Americanize the world, it is American businesses who try to sell their businesses everywhere they can find a market to sell their products.
It is not the American government that sends "Mc Donalds" and "Kentucky fried Chicken" stores around the world, they are independent of the government and no country has an obligation to receive them.

I donot reject that some terrorist who call them self muslims are guilty of evil actions, but i see the billion of muslims who are very good and honest people and my focus are at them. evilncan never be won over by more hate it can only be won over by being better then them to not spread hate and delusion. so my way is the soft way, Not to accept evil but to win over them with compassion and showing that even they might harm me, i do not hate them.

You need to stop being selective about who qualifies as a Muslim and who doesn't. If they believe in Allah and his prophet Muhammed then they are Muslims no matter if they work as carpenters or are teachers or are terrorists.
They are all Muslims, you don't get to pick, the good ones are Muslims and the bad ones are false Muslims.
It doesn't work like that. There is only one Quran and they all read from it.
How many Muslims do you think interpret the word "fight" the way you do?
I'm pretty sure that many of them interpret it the way most of us westerners do.
Who's fault is it? The Quran's fault.
The Quran is not as clear and easy to understand as it proclaims to be.

 

[Wandering Monk]

I donot reject that some terrorist who call them self muslims are guilty of evil actions, but i see the billion of muslims who are very good and honest people and my focus are at them. evilncan never be won over by more hate it can only be won over by being better then them to not spread hate and delusion. so my way is the soft way, Not to accept evil but to win over them with compassion and showing that even they might harm me, i do not hate them.

You are making a 'no true Scotsman' argument here. Do you not see this?