Islamophobia

[stvdv]

Why would a Muslim want to 'force convert' somebody? think about that.

I have been thinking very hard. Wait ... why do they have a problem with apostasy?

Leave Islam is unacceptable ... punishable by "force kill" some say ... so "force convert" is not a big stretch ... just the "other side of the coin"

 

[stvdv]

Ask the Muslims in Egypt who abduct, rape and force convert Coptic Christians.

Horror story to watch. Brings back what Tommy described about what happened in England. Must be coincidence ... maybe not.

For sure this proves that "force to convert" is big business even in the Middle East. Poor women. Horrible. Men doing this behave like barbarians

 

[stvdv]

Wait, what kind of response is that?
You asked why would a Muslim try to force convert anybody?
I showed why.
Your answer doesn't match the question

His answer tells me actually a lot. But rather leave it at that.

 

[stvdv]

Lets recap, Arabia before 510 was not Islamic at all.
23 years later was mostly Islamic.
Historically we know Muhammad fought many battles to conquer those lands.
People were not interested in attacking Islam.
Islam, on the other hand, was interested in expanding the religion.
We are not fools. We don't need to be Muslims nor to read the Quran to understand history and what happened so stop the nonsense.

Thank you, now I understand why they call "Islam the Religion of Peace"
Christianity is trying already for 2000 years to convert others
They better try the Islam way "Christianity the Religion of Peace"

I have no clue how Islam did it though, without "force convert"
Christians try to "feed the hungry and poor", still few are converted
Must be some magic trick Islam used those years

 

[Shad]

It is prohibited for everyone. They have a choice but the laws apply to them. If they break them, that's their choice.You gotta read between the lines. The way you already do, but different parts and on a different way.

Islamist babble.

 

[stvdv]

But there is a HUGE difference between someone directing a racial slur against you personally (fighting words) and an artist drawing a cartoon of the prophet

Polymath: I just quote this for reference and context

And there is even a BIGGER difference to Wilders "thinking to start a drawing contest" and a Muslim "threatening to nuke The Netherlands in reply"

Some people fail to see the proportion

Millions of Muslims cheered as newspaper claimed with this headline (not a minor percentage).

Pakistan claims victory in row over Dutch cartoon contest

1 person threatens to nuke the Netherlands over a Dutch cartoon contest
Million cheered about this, so it's not about 1 person anymore
Even in USA if 1 person organizes a riot they don't let go the others

The nuke threat had nothing to do with the victory. There was a fight over the cartoon contest, one Muslim said the word nuke, later the fight was won by that country and you imagine the word nuke did it. It didn't.

Wilders dropped the contest, because he did not want to endanger the people of the Netherlands (nuke threat)
That is the truth. You telling "nuke said had nothing to do with the victory" is just a lie.

IMO: That they threatened to nuke Holland over cartoon contest is sick

Do not twist what I said please

As explained above

They should have publicly admitted they did wrong
Their celebration shows me what they really are

It's like a Muslim blaming a woman to get raped because she dresses up like a western women. I heard several Imaams say this.

Same here, if a Muslim can't handle another human making a cartoon of Muhammad he is not very solid in his faith. Quite easily shaken. That is fine, not all are the same. But to threat to nuke another country over it is very sick.

If you can't admit this is wrong then you are the same and as guilty

I have not heard 1 Muslim publicly admit on this forum "this was insane of all those Pakistani Muslims and their celebration was totally misplaced".

It wasn't they. It was him.

I started with "a Muslim" threatened
When all start cheering, they all agreed. And when the newspapers in Pakistan confirmed the threat
Naturally I will say "They" (when others see wrong and participate by cheering instead of stopping, they are as guilty)

I don't. You're twisting the reality of what happened.

Look who is talking

He - I don't think he feels he did wrong.

Exactly. The Muslim not even feels he did wrong threatening to nuke the Netherlands.

They have my sumpathy. You aren't allowed to draw Muhammad. Don't draw it. If you do, it will be frowned upon.

Thanks, exactly what I expected from you.

How one feels about Jesus - or anybody - is completely different. For the Buddhist to be mad someone describes another "God" is also dumb. It has nothing to do it him. A person nukes a person?

That's what I figured out already. Muslims see themselves as more special than others, deserving special treatment and the whole world should accept their religion as the best.

 

[stvdv]

The rules of Islam only apply to Muslims. The rules of the Quran and Allah only apply to Muslims.
Understood?

Thanks Raymann, I understood and fully agree that "rules of Islam only apply to Muslims"

Islam is for all mankind the right and the only religion. It is revealed for all mankind and it is Allah who decides for the faith of all men; the dead, the living and the yet to be born. So the rules of Allah apply to all people.

Wow Wasp, thank you so much. Now all is clear to me. You stick to your religion, and I stay away from it, as far as possible.
Your quote "Islam is for all mankind the right and the only religion" tells me more than enough.

Do not bother to reply to my posts again. If you do, this will be my reply. Wish you well.

The Yoga Vasistha is the Scripture I find my jewels. I am reminded of a beautiful text from the Yoga Vasistha:
O Rama*, he who comes forward to remove the sorrow of people of perverted intelligence is endeavouring to cover the sky with a small umbrella. They who behave like beasts cannot be instructed, for they are being led like animals by the rope of their own mind. Indeed, even stones shed tears, looking at those ignorant people who sink in the mire of their own mind, whose actions spell their own doom. Hence, the wise man does not attempt to teach those who have not overcome their own mind and are therefore miserable in every way. On the other hand, the wise do endeavour to remove the sorrow of those who have conquered their mind and who are therefore ripe to undertake self-enquiry.

The mind is not, O Rama*: do not unnecessarily imagine its existence. If you imagine its existence then it destroys you, like a ghost. As long as you have forgotten your self, so long does this imaginary mind exist. Now that you have realised that the mind waxes large by the continued affirmation of its existence, abandon such thinking.

 

[Wasp]

Islamist babble.

An empty argument. Thanks for sharing.

 

[firedragon]

The rules of Islam only apply to Muslims. The rules of the Quran and Allah only apply to Muslims.
Understood?

On what basis do you make this claim?

 

[stvdv]

Question: Is it okay for Muslim to belittle (non) belief of others, telling or implying they are inferior? (No compuslion in religion you said)

It is not appropriate a to belittle any religion or human being all people have the right to practice their religious rituals even in Muslims country it is fundamental basis for religious freedom of belief in Islam, Allah says: “There is no compulsion in religion

Thank you for your clear answer. That is a respectful view.
Just 1 hour ago I read in the same thread:
Islam is for all mankind the right and the only religion. It is revealed for all mankind and it is Allah who decides for the faith of all men; the dead, the living and the yet to be born. So the rules of Allah apply to all people.

If you read the above, you consider this false, am I correct?

If 1 verse clearly says "there is no compulsion in religion"
Is it possible that another verse contradicts this later? I mean, that would make the Koran problematic to read
I remember verse 3:07. In this verse Allah warns us: precise verses form the basis of Koran, some use non-precise verses to get it their way
It seems to me that your verse is a precise verse, and what I read before I can consider to be someone trying to get it their way, correct?

Question: Do you believe that other Scriptures are also Divine inspired and as valuable as the Koran (for others who believe in them)?

The only thing Muslim need to do is to clarify the Principles of Islamic Religion to them and knowing their religion mutually because the process of fear of other religions or atheists is evidence of weakness in logic of that religion and we have to open channels of dialogue with other religions or Atheistic doctrine and scientists and accept of differences to reach for a broader horizon for the good of humanity.

Thank you for your valuable answer.
My Master told us exactly the same. Amazing. What you tell me here, can that be found in the Koran, or is it your own wisdom?

This verse of the Quran said "إِنَّ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَالَّذِينَ هَادُوا وَالنَّصَارَى? وَالصَّابِئِينَ مَنْ آمَنَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ وَعَمِلَ صَالِحًا فَلَهُمْ أَجْرُهُمْ عِندَ رَبِّهِمْ وَلَا خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ (62)
the interpretation of the verse :
se who have attained to faith [in this divine writ], as well as those who follow the Jewish faith, and the Christians, and the Sabians [49] -all who believe in God and the Last Day and do righteous deeds-shall have their reward with their Sustainer; and no fear need they have, and neither shall they grieve. [50] - 2:62 (Asad) -

Above verse is clear but some might interpret it that only Jews, Christians, Sabians and Muslims (though not mentioned) are saved. But clearly then it states "-all who believe in God....". The Rashad Koran puts it even more clear, so that there is no confusion at all.
I really like the Rashad Koran translation: Here it says "All who believe in God" ... including also Buddhist, Hindu, Parsis.... (who believe in God)
002:062 Rashad Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who (1) believes in GOD, and (2) believes in the Last Day, and (3) leads a righteous li fe, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

Thank you for your "inclusive" view of Koran. I like "inclusive" much better than "exclusive"

 

[stvdv]

The rules of Islam only apply to Muslims. The rules of the Quran and Allah only apply to Muslims.
Understood?
We in the west don't abide by those rules and we are allowed to draw Muhammad if we want.
Is that clear?

On what basis do you make this claim?

I would say "Allah gave the Koran to Muhammad"
So you are right, the claim could me narrowed down a little
"The rules of Islam only apply to Muhammad"

 

[firedragon]

I would say "Allah gave the Koran to Muhammad"
So you are right, the claim could me narrowed down a little
"The rules of Islam only apply to Muhammad"

Well. That's an idea, but that's not what the book says.

What you are quoting is an opinion.

 

[Wasp]

1 person threatens to nuke the Netherlands over a Dutch cartoon contest
Million cheered about this, so it's not about 1 person anymore

That not only makes no sense because even Muslims aren't monsters as difficult as it is for you to believe. But it's also something you could not verify for yourself or anyone else. You imagine it so or someone else did, wrote it down and you lick up their words with pleasure not caring if it's true or not.

Wilders dropped the contest, because he did not want to endanger the people of the Netherlands (nuke threat)

Another lie, but why don't you at least try to prove it?

I started with "a Muslim" threatened
When all start cheering, they all agreed. And when the newspapers in Pakistan confirmed the threat
Naturally I will say "They" (when others see wrong and participate by cheering instead of stopping, they are as guilty)

Naturally ignorant to do so I admit. You don't take into account the fragile human mind and the greedy press.

Look he is talking

Thank you.

Exactly. The Muslim not even feels he did wrong threatening to nuke the Netherlands.

So? There are millions of unrepentant criminals all over the world. You don't care about their repentance.

Muslims see themselves as more special than others, deserving special treatment and the whole world should accept their religion as the best.

Again you missed the obvious fault in your own argument.

 

[Shad]

An empty argument. Thanks for sharing.

No you just didn't think about it at all. Claiming laws apply to people that are not Muslim is a political point not a religious one. Try again son.

 

[Raymann]

On what basis do you make this claim?(Allah's messages only apply to Muslims)

On the basis that all commands and messages from the Quran and from Allah are not reflected in most countries around the world's constitutions. The laws of the Quran don't apply in most countries around the world.
This is practical and objective speaking.
Most western countries are secular, which means that they are governed independently from religions.
Religions, therefore, have no say in the creation, implementation or enforcement of laws.
On the other hand, you can say Allah's messages are directed at all humanity but as I explained secular governments ignore religion mandates.

 

[firedragon]

No you just didn't think about it at all. Claiming laws apply to people that are not Muslim is a political point not a religious one. Try again son.

Which law?

 

[Shad]

Which law?

Follow the comment chain

 

[firedragon]

On the basis that all commands and messages from the Quran and from Allah are not reflected in most countries around the world's constitutions. The laws of the Quran don't apply in most countries around the world.
This is practical and objective speaking.
Most western countries are secular, which means that they are governed independently from religions.
Religions, therefore, have no say in the creation, implementation or enforcement of laws.
On the other hand, you can say Allah's messages are directed at all humanity but as I explained secular governments ignore religion mandates.

Ah. I understand. You are speaking from your point of view, not the point of view of the book.

Of course it doesn't apply. And vise versa.

 

[firedragon]

Follow the comment chain

Thats too general and superficial, so I am asking a specific question.

 

[Shad]

Thats too general and superficial, so I am asking a specific question.

No it isn't as it contains specific points of law and the application of. You just didn't bother thinking or looking. Try again.