Isn’t Islam an idol worshiping religion?

[Khaleel]

What is this distorted logic that you're trying to convey? Do you want God to be like you? If He was like us, a Human, he wouldn't be able to create us and the whole universe...! Nothing is like Him. But this doesn't necessarily mean He's an object as you say. Rather, you should acknowledge, He's a Being with absolute intelligence, Omnipotent, the Most Exalted and the most Wise... "His is the dominion of the heavens and earth. He gives life and causes death, and He is over all things competent. He is the First and the Last, the Ascendant and the Intimate, and He is of all things Knowing." These are just a few qualifiers used by God Himself to describe Himself and to make us aware of His uniqueness. So, beware !
(Cf. First verses of Surah Al-Hadid)

Islam says Allah is outside us. That which is outside us is an object. Thus a call to worship Allah is a call to worship an object. Idol worship is worship of objects.

 

[Khaleel]

Hey, Harikrishna! you say that "All religions are in essence idolatry" First, you must know that there's only ONE religion, simply because there's ONE God who created man in a unique shape, i.e. we're all the same ! we're all fro Adam whom God created from clay and breathed of His soul in him ! Whether you believe this or not will have no impact on its reality ! Do you think your mother created you with the help of your father... and that's all? An d who created your father? What was first, the chicken or the egg? Of course, you'll solve the issue by having recourse to the principles of Evolution ! But what was BEFORE the thing(s) that evolution supposedly started with ? Then, what caused the Big Bang (if we accept this theory)? A more important issue, what was BEFORE the Big Bang? You can only answer these questions by accepting the existence of an Absolute Being with an absolute Intelligence who decided to create this Universe and humans in it...
Just to end this post, I'd like to tell you I won't take into consideration the rest of your questions... They're futile, trivial... You want to free yourself from "own idolatry" and what you call 'ignorance'? Then decide not to die, for instance !

All religions are in essence idolatry. Worshipping an image of God created by a few delusional self proclaimed prophets is idolatry. What effect would our behaviour have on God that he has to intervene to force conformity? Some of the behaviour condemned as sin are rather enjoyable and not as harmful as once declared. And then there are natural disasters that serve no divine purpose or offer any justification.
When will we be free of our own idolatry? Not until we free ourselves from the ignorance that makes humans accountable to religion created to repress humankind.

 

[free spirit]

Life can only mean one thing whether in you or in me or in the animals or in birds or fishes or in Allah. The quality or type of living may be different. Life is everywhere. So long as there is a form there would be life in it. When the form totally disintegrates and nothing remains of the form - still life remains. To the question where went the form - the answer can only be that a gross form at its most subtle is nothing other than life. The life that was in the form merges with the life that was outside the form - nay the form at its most subtle merges with life. Not only in animate forms - even in inanimate forms there is life. Quantum physics indicates this. When quantum physics reaches its frontiers - it will declare as the seers of yore had declared: All existence is but life.

Those who were made in the image of God have the true life, the other living things only exists. Therefore find the image of God in you, and you will know what life is.
In the book of Genesis 1:26-27, God laid the foundations of the character and purpose of humanity, for we read: “Then God said, Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth. And God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.”
So according to the above scripture we have the image of God in ourselves, but unfortunately man’s imaginative and artistic skill has fashioned God to resemble himself, male and female. Some of us even elevated animals as the form to worship. Others worship some object like the sun, the moon, the earth, or nature itself. Needless to say that they all are in error, because it is not the object, or creature, or our superficial appearance or gender that bears the image of God, but it is the essence (spirit) of God in us that bears the image of God.
It isn’t difficult to identify the spirit in us that bears the image of God; because He has not been hidden in some dark place, but He is in the most forefront of our lives. If anything it is His over-exposure that makes Him invisible as it were.
For with His essence we are able to think, formulate plans and be creative. To have the power of the Word means to be living souls. Just consider that without this Godly essence we would be like animals, living in the limitations of instinct, and not living from the essence of unlimited freedom and intelligent reason.
So the God given ability to formulate reason with words is what makes us in the image of God, for He created all things by the power of His word, and like Him we also plan and create things out of the reasoning power of our words. The ability to speak intelligent and creative words is truly what makes us living souls; therefore it is the breath of life itself. (Genesis 2:7.)

 

[free spirit]

Peace be upon you, brother. You and your people are suffering from a harsh religion that has both judged and condemned Muslims. Islam has condemned the infidels too. But the infidels are to many and too strong and too well educated.

I say bring all the Muslims under the Sharia law. It is time they took their religion Islam seriously and started reading their scriptures in the Quran. Just because they chose to follow an illiterate prophet Mohammad, their own illiteracy cannot be justified. The prophet had many wives to care for including a 6 year old child bride when he was 52 years old. Talking to angel Gabriel for 20 years the prophet hungered for a younger companion which he finally found in Aisha his child bride.

I cannot decide if this post is refine sarcasm, or you are deadly serious.

 

[Gharib]

Islam says Allah is outside us. That which is outside us is an object. Thus a call to worship Allah is a call to worship an object. Idol worship is worship of objects.

Hello K.Venugopal. It's been a long time. Nice to see you are still here.

'Islam says Allah is outside us' - Please show us where Islam says that. Is it someone who says it or is it the texts of Islam that say it? Moreover, could it be that that's just your understanding of the matter?

p.s that's not idol worship. I'm sure you know that it isn't and that you understand what idol worship is better than most of us.

 

[Gharib]

Try to imagine God the creator of the universe and all things in existence would ask man to cut his foreskin as an offering and a sign of obedience to the covenant made with Abraham.

"An offering" - Really now, please do show us where Islam teaches that it is a form of sacrifice-offering.
And as far as being a sign of obedience, you are quite right.

If God found the foreskin offensive he could have created man without it. It is just one of the many ridiculous ways man has portrayed and trivialized God.

I don't like to assume so rather I'll ask, are you a Hindu? If you are then I'll re-reply to this part.

 

[Gharib]

You know the Kaaba and especially the meteorite has more to do with idol worship than what you are writing about.

Which Islamic text says that the black rock is to be worshipped?
Do you know of any Muslim that says so?

Let's start saying that praying in a mosque or facing it is tantamount to idol worship too. I'm sure you'll get some hits for that also.

 

[Salek Atesh]

Islam says Allah is outside us. That which is outside us is an object. Thus a call to worship Allah is a call to worship an object. Idol worship is worship of objects.

According to the dictionary, an Object is "a material thing that can be seen and touched." So no.

On the Mystical side, Allah is not only outside of us but is outside of everything. An "object" in the sense of idolatry, refers to a created object in existence. An infinite being such as Allah cannot be contained in finite existence, and thus is outside of existence. If Allah is outside of existence, he cannot be an object, which is by nature extant.

 

[Gharib]

I'm an orthodox Muslim

What does that make the rest of us??

 

[Gharib]

According to the dictionary, an Object is "a material thing that can be seen and touched." So no.

On the Mystical side, Allah is not only outside of us but is outside of everything. An "object" in the sense of idolatry, refers to a created object in existence. An infinite being such as Allah cannot be contained in finite existence, and thus is outside of existence. If Allah is outside of existence, he cannot be an object, which is by nature extant.

It would be much appreciated if you would refrain from commenting on Islamic teachings from your "scholarly" educated point of view. Much appreciated.

 

[Salek Atesh]

They factually do.

They just don't admit it.

The Dictionary says "reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred"

No one honors the rock. Honoring the point at which the rock lies and the symbolism it bears, perhaps. But not the rock itself. The rock is AT the point of adoration. It is not the point of adoration. Move the rock somewhere else and the prayer direction remains the same.

 

[Salek Atesh]

It would be much appreciated if you would refrain from commenting on Islamic teachings from your "scholarly" educated point of view. Much appreciated.

'Twas not Islamic teachings.

 

[Gharib]

'Twas not Islamic teachings.

Please re-read your post. You started speaking and commenting on what Allah is and is not. Where he is and where he isn't.

 

[Salek Atesh]

Please re-read your post. You started speaking and commenting on what Allah is and is not. Where he is and where he isn't.

True. But you are not of the only religion to know God by the name of Allah, nor the only one to have teachings relating to the nature of Allah.

I disagree with the original poster for the mentioned reasons and my understanding of God's nature. I'll in the future stress that these are the understandings of myself and not necessarily anyone else who worships God, to avoid confusion.

Peace.

 

[Salek Atesh]

Please re-read your post. You started speaking and commenting on what Allah is and is not. Where he is and where he isn't.

I also assume we agree that an idol must be a created thing and that, as an uncreated thing, Allah cannot thus be an idol, correct??

 

[Gharib]

I also assume we agree that an idol must be a created thing and that, as an uncreated thing, Allah cannot thus be an idol, correct??

Fatiha has answered the question. An idol is something that represents "the image of God". So since Muslims do not pray to Allah through something else or an intermediary then our worship is not Idol worship.

K.Venugopal has just mixed up his personal beliefs that's all.

 

[Harikrish]

"An offering" - Really now, please do show us where Islam teaches that it is a form of sacrifice-offering.
And as far as being a sign of obedience, you are quite right.



I don't like to assume so rather I'll ask, are you a Hindu? If you are then I'll re-reply to this part.

Sorry, I was tied up and couldn't reply. Yes I am a Hindu a Vedantist raised in the Vedantic tradition. After studying the Vedas I grew interested in what scriptures of other religions had to say. I was surprised to learn God revealed himself to an illiterate Arab in Islam and to a carpenters son in Christianity and to a wandering Jew(Abraham) in Judaism or was it a sailor(Noah) or a shepherd Moses.
Is it any wonder why the three big religions only appeal to our base instincts and not our intellectual skepticism. They were designed to meet a low bar for credulity. One would expect the theory of God (theology) would be more vigorously challenged than the theory of science. This is why we approach cognitive dissonance when discussing the 3 big religions.

We have over a billion Hindus uncircumcised and just as many Chinese. Oddly God has not demanded their foreskins and yet they managed to hold the world in awe as the two earliest advanced civilizations. Should God have focused on mans capacity for knowledge having eaten from the tree of knowledge instead of his foreskin which has very little to do with his intellect? If obedience was what God was seeking from man, why insist on circumcision?

Even God had to admit he made a mistake and followed that with 10 more commandments albeit by a later prophet Moses. And there were 161 more Mosaic laws to follow ordered by God only to end it by offering a carpenters son(Jesus) as the human sacrifice to forgive those sinners. This isn't the kind of stuff us Vedantists spend a lot of time mulling over. But it is the kind of stuff the requires a very low bar to accept as divine revelations.

 

[Salek Atesh]

I was surprised to learn God revealed himself to an illiterate Arab in Islam and to a carpenters son in Christianity and to a wandering Jew(Abraham) in Judaism or was it a sailor(Noah) or a shepherd Moses.

Makes sense to have an illiterate man write down your poetic, skillfully written Holy Book, as a proof of the source of the book.

Also, why not a carpenter or shepherd, merchant or sailor as a prophet?? Krishna was a cowherd and was still an avatar.

 

[Gharib]

Sorry, I was tied up and couldn't reply. Yes I am a Hindu a Vedantist raised in the Vedantic tradition. After studying the Vedas I grew interested in what scriptures of other religions had to say. I was surprised to learn God revealed himself to an illiterate Arab in Islam and to a carpenters son in Christianity and to a wandering Jew(Abraham) in Judaism or was it a sailor(Noah) or a shepherd Moses.
Is it any wonder why the three big religions only appeal to our base instincts and not our intellectual skepticism. They were designed to meet a low bar for credulity. One would expect the theory of God (theology) would be more vigorously challenged than the theory of science. This is why we approach cognitive dissonance when discussing the 3 big religions.

We have over a billion Hindus uncircumcised and just as many Chinese. Oddly God has not demanded their foreskins and yet they managed to hold the world in awe as the two earliest advanced civilizations. Should God have focused on mans capacity for knowledge having eaten from the tree of knowledge instead of his foreskin which has very little to do with his intellect? If obedience was what God was seeking from man, why insist on circumcision?

Even God had to admit he made a mistake and followed that with 10 more commandments albeit by a later prophet Moses. And there were 161 more Mosaic laws to follow ordered by God only to end it by offering a carpenters son(Jesus) as the human sacrifice to forgive those sinners. This isn't the kind of stuff us Vedantists spend a lot of time mulling over. But it is the kind of stuff the requires a very low bar to accept as divine revelations.

You didn't answer the first part of my question.

As for the second, you said God could have created man without a foreskin. If that is so, then surely your gods would not require you to make offerings to them as Hindus generally do. I'm sure they can go about to feed their own selves. And why would God/s need to be made an offering or eat for that matter?

 

[K.Venugopal]

'Islam says Allah is outside us' - Please show us where Islam says that.

Dear Gharib: Good to discuss with you again after long time. Does Islam say Allah is omnipresent?