Isn't dismantling the space program long overdue?

[Revoltingest]

Awww, thanks!
I don't have to hold my breath the whole time, do I?

That's up to you.
I design gear trains...I don't tell choreographers what to do.

 

[ChristineES]

I can't imagine there not being a space program. I love astronomy and I wanted to go to college to be an astronomer, but common sense told me to get into a more practical field. But I still like looking at all the new things they keep discovering- planets that could support human life, pictures of Mars, etc. That is all totally fascinating to me. I feel happy on a clear night when I can just stargaze. It is great to know more in detail what I am seeing and what I can't see.

 

[apophenia]

Am I really the only person here who sees the mining and solar energy resources as a major goal of the space program ?

Surely Occam's razor applies here. What does the human race need ? Raw materials and energy . Is there any current or foreseen problem with obtaining materials or energy ? Yes.

Where is there an alternative source of materials and energy ? Look up.

The USA has already sent craft to asteroids to do preliminary analyses of their mineral content. And not to put too fine a point on it, the technology described by O'Neill's think-tank received significant research funding when it was re-presented as defence hardware (SDI) under Reagan - shortly after the results of the think-tank research were presented to Congress in the early 70s. Read the appendices in O'Neill's book 'The High Frontier' for further detail ... the book was basically a user friendly version of the report to Congress.

I only mentioned the asteroid belt and the sun in my previous post. There is also a huge resource of helium-3 on the moon. Helium-3 could provide us with clean nuclear energy. Then there is the mineral content of Mars, which is now being analysed. And if there is water on Mars, mining operations are so much more feasible.

Surely these are the immediate attractions in space exploration ? I am all for scientific curiousity, and I realise that general scientific exploration leads to serendipitous discoveries, but the real core of our motivation (need) is energy and materials.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Mining of extremely rare materials might be beneficial, but for most elements it will instead be a case where mining is simply the most economical way of enhancing our presence in space, because getting the materials back to earth would often be dangerous or impractical unless sufficiently rare. What is far more likely is that salvaging obsolete satellites and mining comets/asteroids etc could be a significantly cheaper way of providing required resources for the ISS, upgrades to currently orbiting satellites and so forth; within some sort of space based resource acquisition, processing and manufacturing enterprise (quite possibly a public sector project to begin with before private commercial firms step in to allow rich businesses to cash in on government research and development that everyone paid for); though IP control would clearly be of key importance since you are likely looking at cutting edge technology to be manufactured and therefore highly sensitive.

 

[Shermana]

Imagine if we could crash land platinum rich asteroids into the Earth, or the moon and then transfer it back over in giant freight shuttles, you could pay off NASA's existence 10x over each year without even flooding the market with the proceeds.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

That would flood the market and make platinum (or whatever you were mining) worth vastly less. That stated, for rare materials with high value, that is certainly a possibility even were it to diminish the unit value of the materials.

But for most materials, the best use would almost certainly be in manufacturing various components in space (indeed it could allow us to create vastly superior telescopes for example as a result of not needing to launch them from earth (and thus having significant size limitations)... Mind you the amount of money that would be required to set up such a manufacturing center in the first place is probably enormous (as in tens of billions) but the payoff... damn... if I had some capital and it was being run by a suitable firm...

 

[LuisDantas]

Some sort of space program must be kept, mainly because satellites are invaluable in so many fields, from cartography to weather prediction to communications.

It is the military use that must be curbed.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

It is the military (and intelligence) use which is likely to be the only reason the government is interested; the commercial satellite business can look after itself by now.

People who advocate the scaling back of the space program given it's current miniscule budget simply have no comprehension of the current ROI. In fact, that is something that we should really put more effort on stressing.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Probably one of the best ways to become a third world nation is to give up on basic research.

I think the best way to become a third world country is to keep spending money we don't have.

I would love to give every child the musical instrument of their choice.

I would love to give every young person their first car.

I would love to give every young family a house.

Child care, health care, food stamps.

Hell lets give every American a million dollars too.

Just print or borrow the money right?

I don't believe running down the space program is the answer, funding it without going into debt is.

 

[Ouroboros]

Some sort of space program must be kept, mainly because satellites are invaluable in so many fields, from cartography to weather prediction to communications.

It is the military use that must be curbed.

Agree.

Satellites are also needed for Internet, so it's kind of ironic that someone posts critique of the space program on a forum.

 

[Ouroboros]

It is the military (and intelligence) use which is likely to be the only reason the government is interested; the commercial satellite business can look after itself by now.

People who advocate the scaling back of the space program given it's current miniscule budget simply have no comprehension of the current ROI. In fact, that is something that we should really put more effort on stressing.

The way I think NASA is going is to become more of an overseer and R&D department and let the actual exploration and construction be done by companies. A bit more like how there's a separation between airlines, plane manufacturers, and FAA.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Dismantling the space program is long overdue if we want to accelerate our slide back into barbarism.

 

[Ouroboros]

I think the best way to become a third world country is to keep spending money we don't have.

I would love to give every child the musical instrument of their choice.

I would love to give every young person their first car.

I would love to give every young family a house.

Child care, health care, food stamps.

Hell lets give every American a million dollars too.

Just print or borrow the money right?

All good things. And we've could have done that if we didn't pay the banks all that money to put in the managers pockets.

NASA gets about 17 billion / year.

The bank bailouts were about 3.8 trillion between 2007 and 2011. That's what NASA would cost in 200 years.

I don't believe running down the space program is the answer, funding it without going into debt is.

The space program is so incredibly small compared to all other programs in the gov't that it's not even pocket change. It's 0.5% of the total budget.

 

[Falvlun]

How much money was flushed down the toilet on those two shuttles that crashed? Can anyone name one achievement of the program in the post cold war era that was worth the cost? I think you can make an argument that battling the ruskies in the race to the moon was a far better alternative to waging war on the field of battle. With jobs going overseas at a disturbing rate aren't those funds more needed here on the ground?

This is like counseling Ferdinand and Isabella that funding Columbus' explorations were "flushing money down the sewer".

Good thing you weren't around in 1492.

(Though there were many around with the same feelings.)

 

[MysticSang'ha]

All good things. And we've could have done that if we didn't pay the banks all that money to put in the managers pockets.

NASA gets about 17 billion / year.

The bank bailouts were about 3.8 trillion between 2007 and 2011. That's what NASA would cost in 200 years.


The space program is so incredibly small compared to all other programs in the gov't that it's not even pocket change. It's 0.5% of the total budget.

17 billion? Man, that's a lot.

The National Endowment for the Arts is requesting 154 million dollars. I'm sure in time you'll see the sciences continue to be disregarded as much as the arts. So far, though, the trend is that AT LEAST science gives us more to think about and dream about.....well, when it comes to things that matter, like getting more oil, establishing puppet regimes, and creating more planned obsolesence in our technology for maximum profit. The arts are only considered worthy for all our citizens if it's utilized in conjunction with marketing.

And people are yelling and screaming that the arts and artists are being given too much money. Too much money? You mean for living expenses and stipends? Damn those artists....and now damn those scientists, too!

Who cares about junk in our oceans or exploring unchartered territory in our universe? We need to be able to buy the next iPhone since the ones we got won't work in 2 years.

But since collectively we consider thinking and imagining to be more and more of a waste of time, science will inevitably fall completely into the hands of our military-industrial complex, as it's falling toward now. We're too busy fighting the War on Drugs and the War on Terror, and we're too busy ensuring that health care doesn't keep people healthy but profits from illness to encourage our citizens to think, imagine, and cooperate.

We're told more and more that we need to teach our kids to read what is being shown to them, listen to what is being told to them, follow instructions to the letter, compute only the arithmetic that is being given to them, and to always do what they're told. These citizens make great workers and soldiers, but terrible scientists and artists.

What else is an imperialistic country that celebrates authoritarianism more and more supposed to do? Churn out thinkers? That's fine only if these thinkers find ways to make those folks at the IMF more money and to own more real estate. Go America! Land of the.....free....sort of.

 

[Ouroboros]

17 billion? Man, that's a lot.

Perhaps, but it hasn't changed much for a very long time.

What will happen is probably more outsourcing. That's how the last Mars exploration was done. Mostly done by external work and NASA only overseeing it. It's the privatization of space.

The National Endowment for the Arts is requesting 154 million dollars. I'm sure in time you'll see the sciences continue to be disregarded as much as the arts. So far, though, the trend is that AT LEAST science gives us more to think about and dream about.....well, when it comes to things that matter, like getting more oil, establishing puppet regimes, and creating more planned obsolesence in our technology for maximum profit. The arts are only considered worthy for all our citizens if it's utilized in conjunction with marketing.

Yes. Unfortunately. But with computer games and special effects in movies, graphical art has increased 1,000 fold the last 10 years. Just look at the credits for a movie for how many digital artists were employed. Some movies there are more artists than all actors, sound engineers, managers, etc together.

And people are yelling and screaming that the arts and artists are being given too much money. Too much money? You mean for living expenses and stipends? Damn those artists....and now damn those scientists, too!

I haven't heard anyone complain about that. Who is complaining about the artists given too much money? Usually people complain about the teachers getting too much money. Regarding arts, they shut down many programs in schools the last couple of years. More sports, because that's more profitable and presentable for transfer programs.

Who cares about junk in our oceans or exploring unchartered territory in our universe? We need to be able to buy the next iPhone since the ones we got won't work in 2 years.

Don't forget GPS, Google maps, early brushfire warnings systems, and other useful and helpful things that comes from technology. Not all things are good, but not all things are bad either.

But since collectively we consider thinking and imagining to be more and more of a waste of time, science will inevitably fall completely into the hands of our military-industrial complex, as it's falling toward now.

I'm not sure that it is. Is it really falling towards a military-industrial complex or is it going more towards the private sector or perhaps both?

We're too busy fighting the War on Drugs and the War on Terror, and we're too busy ensuring that health care doesn't keep people healthy but profits from illness to encourage our citizens to think, imagine, and cooperate.

There's some truth to that. Politicians love to overreact to threats of different kinds and miserably fail to deliver the right solution.

We're told more and more that we need to teach our kids to read what is being shown to them, listen to what is being told to them, follow instructions to the letter, compute only the arithmetic that is being given to them, and to always do what they're told. These citizens make great workers and soldiers, but terrible scientists and artists.

Agree. It's been very frustrating to have kids in school. They're graded higher for doing homework than actually answer the right answer on tests. It's all about obedience and follow instructions. If a student talks too much or have problems focusing, he/she is diagnosed ADD and put on pills, so they can focus better, shut up, and obey.

What else is an imperialistic country that celebrates authoritarianism more and more supposed to do? Churn out thinkers? That's fine only if these thinkers find ways to make those folks at the IMF more money and to own more real estate. Go America! Land of the.....free....sort of.

True.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

What will happen is probably more outsourcing. That's how the last Mars exploration was done. Mostly done by external work and NASA only overseeing it. It's the privatization of space.

That and perhaps looking for another nation-building opportunity? Then who governs it? How?

Yes. Unfortunately. But with computer games and special effects in movies, graphical art has increased 1,000 fold the last 10 years. Just look at the credits for a movie for how many digital artists were employed. Some movies there are more artists than all actors, sound engineers, managers, etc together.

LOL actors aren't artists anymore?

And there is debate on whether this is mere "entertainment" or if Hollywood digital animated films fall under the definition of "art". I say yes, it IS art. But the graphic arts are still being utilized primarily to line the pockets of the production companies who buy the rights to use the work. That's a whole other debate, though.

I haven't heard anyone complain about that. Who is complaining about the artists given too much money? Usually people complain about the teachers getting too much money. Regarding arts, they shut down many programs in schools the last couple of years. More sports, because that's more profitable and presentable for transfer programs.

I'm a dancer. Every time I mention that investments ought to be made more to the arts, I'm reminded from time to time that the arts are nothing but a "hobby" and should be treated as such. Not everyone says that, but just try to suggest that the arts ought to be invested into as much as the sciences. Then watch the hailstorm of harumphs fall down onto the suggestion.

Don't forget GPS, Google maps, early brushfire warnings systems, and other useful and helpful things that comes from technology. Not all things are good, but not all things are bad either.

I hope you don't think I'm dissing technology. I'm not. I think it's the driver of social and cultural evolution. Where would we be without the pencil? The wheel? The telephone? The computer? I totally get it. Planned obsolescence on the other hand might be good for a company's profit maximization but horrible for our planet. I tend to think the latter is of a higher priority.

I'm not sure that it is. Is it really falling towards a military-industrial complex or is it going more towards the private sector or perhaps both?

Wish I had a clear answer to that question.

There's some truth to that. Politicians love to overreact to threats of different kinds and miserably fail to deliver the right solution.


Agree. It's been very frustrating to have kids in school. They're graded higher for doing homework than actually answer the right answer on tests. It's all about obedience and follow instructions. If a student talks too much or have problems focusing, he/she is diagnosed ADD and put on pills, so they can focus better, shut up, and obey.

Ugh, I know.

 

[Meow Mix]

I always wondered what the face of human extinction looks like.

 

[Apex]

 

[Reptillian]

Dismantling the space program is long overdue if we want to accelerate our slide back into barbarism.

No, you misunderstand...we don't want to slide all the way back to barbarism, just the capitalist utopia that was feudalism. The glorious age when small numbers of people controlled the masses with an iron fist and when bigots burned the man who dared to bring enlightenment and intelligence to the human mind.