Isn't the exclusivity of Scientific Verification accepted on faith?

[Milton Platt]

Based on another thread...

Follow along with me here, while I present the opening statements for this discussion.

First off the point of this thread for my part is not to call science and the empirical method into doubt, but to hopefully illustrate a point.

A good number of materialists and skeptics often point to science as a verification method for information in an exclusive way. Claiming that science alone constitutes valid evidence or proofs to establish a premise.

My question is: isn't this a belief?
Depends how you define belief. There is belief based upon faith (The religious kind) and there is belief that something is dependable in the answers it provides because of it do so historically.
What exactly gives the impression that science alone should be accepted as valid for verifying information? What argues for that?
There are other ways of knowing....but the scientific method has shown to be the most reliable.
On what authority should this be accepted?
On the authority of the evidence that supports the proposition..
Note: I am not trying to throw science out the window here. I am trying to determine why the premise of science alone as evidence should be accepted.

If this authority for science alone as evidence is science itself- isn't this coming near the kind of circular argumentation fundamentalists are often accused of with their scriptures?
Science is not the reason for accepting the scientific method...the demonstrable dependability of the answers it provides is.
Science is a sole authority because science establishes it and shows it?
No. The fact that almost everything we know to be true has been verified using the scientific method and because science is responsible for nearly everything that touches on modern life.
It has often struck me as odd that this isn't called into question more. This premise of science alone as valid for evidence.
What method would you suggest?
Sure science carries evidence. That is not what I am debating, for my part. I am asking why we should accept that science exclusively verifies information? Science exclusively?

Because of observation and empirical testing that is verified through the peer review process and repeated by others?

 

[Buddha Dharma]

@Milton Platt have you looked at other responses, where I addressed this line of thinking? There is no reason for me to accept science has the corner on the market for knowledge. I'm sorry if atheists don't like my conclusion.

 

[Milton Platt]

@Milton Platt have you looked at other responses, where I addressed this line of thinking? There is no reason for me to accept science has the corner on the market for knowledge. I'm sorry if atheists don't like my conclusion.

That's fine. I was pointing out that the scientific method has been shown to be the most reliable way of knowing, not that it is the only way of knowing.

 

[Sapiens]

That's fine. I was pointing out that the scientific method has been shown to be the most reliable way of knowing, not that it is the only way of knowing.

... and why would any sane person select a "way of knowing" that has proven to be less reliable than another "way of knowing?" A bias in favor of inferior technique is insane, no?

 

[Subduction Zone]

... and why would any sane person select a "way of knowing" that has proven to be less reliable than another "way of knowing?" A bias in favor of inferior technique is insane, no?

There are some problems that science cannot answer. Perhaps that is the time to break out the Ouija board, though it has not been to reliable to date.

 

[Audie]

@Milton Platt have you looked at other responses, where I addressed this line of thinking? There is no reason for me to accept science has the corner on the market for knowledge. I'm sorry if atheists don't like my conclusion.

You are not sorry, and it is not about "atheists".

It is totally obvious to everyone alive that "science"
(define, plz..we get third grade teachers who will
show the students how to do something and chirp
"we are all scientists") is not the only way to get
"knowledge".. whatever you might mean by that.

Muscle memory is a kind of knowledge. Keep hands off cactus is another. There is "he really loves me"
and how to write a poem. "Atheists" dont "like" it?

Your whole op idea was pretty silly, and you've not
gotten any better.

Lame idea, obvious answers

Try to learn to take people agreeing with you for an answer!

 

[Baroodi]

I disagreed with the invasion of Iraq. Most Americans did, I think. How does that justify Muslims blowing up other Muslims in a market or Mosque? How does that justify Isis invading at least two countries? How does that justify driving a vehicle down a path and killing civilian pedestrians? How does that justify killing a cartoonist for drawing a picture representing Muhammad? How does that justify flying two airplanes into skyscrapers and killing thousands?
What measures have Islamists taken to prevent this from happening?

these are fanatics whom our prophet Mohammed repudiated and rejected them as Muslims when he said: They emerge out of the religion as an arrow pierce and emerge from a hunted prey, very quick before the spill of its blood"
the hunter (which here represent the one embracing Islam) look to his arrow to find that, there was no blood staining it, indicating how quick it emerged out of the prey before the blood squirt inside it. that means, these fanatics like ISIS, entered Islam and emerged out of it just like this arrow very quickly and took nothing from it, not even a minimum thing to tell they are Muslims.

 

[Subduction Zone]

these are fanatics whom our prophet Mohammed repudiated and rejected them as Muslims when he said: They emerge out of the religion as an arrow pierce and emerge from a hunted prey, very quick before the spill of its blood"
the hunter (which here represent the one embracing Islam) look to his arrow to find that, there was no blood staining it, indicating how quick it emerged out of the prey before the blood squirt inside it. that means, these fanatics like ISIS, entered Islam and emerged out of it just like this arrow very quickly and took nothing from it, not even a minimum thing to tell they are Muslims.

Nothing like a having a lack of True Scotsmen.

 

[Baroodi]

And yet there are other passages in the Quran that do make the killing of non-believers okay. You are either cherry-picking passages, or not being truthful. I know not all followers of Islam do these things, but at least 20% believe these things are okay. Polls show this to be true. And they point to specific passages in your Quran to support their beliefs.

please quote these verses to be able to talk about them. there is no single verse calling for aggression at all. You know Muslims in early Islam era were severely tortured to coerce them to keep away from this new religion, they were driven out of their homes in Macca. After all this, God gave them permission to defend themselves (If they fight you, fight them).

 

[Baroodi]

And yet there are other passages in the Quran that do make the killing of non-believers okay. You are either cherry-picking passages, or not being truthful. I know not all followers of Islam do these things, but at least 20% believe these things are okay. Polls show this to be true. And they point to specific passages in your Quran to support their beliefs.

+

(God doesn't forbid you from treating gently, nicely and Justly the None-believers who didn't fight you) (Noble Quran)

 

[Baroodi]

Your definition of peace is different from mine. Your religion is obviously not peaceful except maybe to those who believe in it. To all others, your religion encourages mass murders, torturing, beheading, treating women like property and warring.

Unfortunately you took this from Anti-Islam propaganda. show me one verse in Quran or one sentence from the talks of our leader Mohammed the messenger indicating this. please don't tell me from ISIS leaders, whoever commit such crimes is not Muslim

Quran says whoever kill an innocent soul as if he killed all mankind. How this streamline with what you said. Please read from true sources about anything, before criticizing it.

 

[Audie]

Unfortunately you took this from Anti-Islam propaganda. show me one verse in Quran or one sentence from the talks of our leader Mohammed the messenger indicating this. please don't tell me from ISIS leaders, whoever commit such crimes is not Muslim

Quran says whoever kill an innocent soul as if he killed all mankind. How this streamline with what you said. Please read from true sources about anything, before criticizing it.

and the definition of "innocent"? A jew hiding behindva rock?

 

[Baroodi]

and the definition of "innocent"? A jew hiding behindva rock?

(God doesn’t prevent ye from treating amicably and justly the non-believers who didn’t fight you or drive you out of your houses) (Noble Quran)

(O ye who believe, stand firmly for God, examples for justness and fair dealing. And don’t let the evil of some folks swerve Ye not to be equitable. Be equitable and impartial, this is closer to piety. And fear God, Verily God is all-knowing for what Ye are doing) (Noble Quran 5:8)

 

[Audie]

(God doesn’t prevent ye from treating amicably and justly the non-believers who didn’t fight you or drive you out of your houses) (Noble Quran)

(O ye who believe, stand firmly for God, examples for justness and fair dealing. And don’t let the evil of some folks swerve Ye not to be equitable. Be equitable and impartial, this is closer to piety. And fear God, Verily God is all-knowing for what Ye are doing) (Noble Quran 5:8)

You wont fool anyone capable of a google search.

Your evasiveness only highlights the nature of your book of evil.

 

[Baroodi]

Nothing like a having a lack of True Scotsmen.

GGGGG
ISIS and related criminals now are only killing innocent Muslims detonating here and there. they represent <0.0001 of total peaceful Muslims. read the statistics about homicidal killing worldwide and compare it to that of Islamic counties.

Quran states it clearly; whoever kill s soul, his reward is to domicile in Hell fire eternally immortally.

 

[Audie]

GGGGG
ISIS and related criminals now are only killing innocent Muslims detonating here and there. they represent <0.0001 of total peaceful Muslims. read the statistics about homicidal killing worldwide and compare it to that of Islamic counties.

Quran states it clearly; whoever kill s soul, his reward is to domicile in Hell fire eternally immortally.

Hence the popularity of the koran and bible.

You can find passages to support or refute anything you like.

 

[Jollybear]

I think SOME things in religion cannot be repeatable. An example is God talking to you in a audable voice. But why cant that be repeatable? Obvious, because thats GODS DECISION, not yours.

Now for other things, like out of body travel, theres things YOU can do to repeat this. And things everyone can do to do it for the first time. Hence its repeatable.

Also the word science seams to be hijacked at times by atheists and materialists as if to ASSUME the physical world is all there is.

The real motivation of science is the persuit of knowledge, wherever that may lead you.

 

[Sapiens]

The real motivation of science is the persuit of knowledge, wherever that may lead you.

Correct, and every time science has been applied to a claim of god talking in your ear or out of body travel, the scientific conclusion has been that the claim is falsified or is simply unfalsifiable and thus not amenable to rational inquiry.

 

[Jollybear]

Correct, and every time science has been applied to god talking in your ear or out of body travel, the scientific conclusion has been that the claim is falsified.

Falsified huh? How so?

 

[Audie]

Correct, and every time science has been applied to a claim of god talking in your ear or out of body travel, the scientific conclusion has been that the claim is falsified or is simply unfalsifiable and thus not amenable to rational inquiry.

I've been reading "Brain on Fire" a young woman's account of her
terrible experience with paranoia, psychosis, seizures etc
caused by an auto immune disorder.

She describes instances of (thinking she?) was outside her body,
looking down at herself.

I dont think I'd care to induce that in myself! But then, I wont even
take a sip of wine.