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Isn't this cute?

Dan From Smithville

The Flying Elvises, Utah Chapter
Staff member
Premium Member
Unfortunately @YoursTrue is confused and cannot understand why a theist or polytheist can embrace evolution when in reality there is and never was any conflict to begin with between evolution and religion. I cannot give up hope though and maybe at some point @YoursTrue will see the real beauty in the creative power of evolution and if they want to believe that the god they believe in set it in motion then so be it. Evolution is not just for atheist's, it is the biological story of our world no matter what religion you believe and we should all find this story of life as a common ground we should all share. I keep looking for that opportunity to convince @Deeje too. At least @Deeje appreciates the life on earth and that we can all come together on.
I agree. It comes down to an issue of doctrine rather than one of compatibility between belief and reality.

I see a will to connect the science with atheism, but fortunately, a poorly executed effort to that end. There are no "two camps" with regards to religion and science in the context of a conflict. That is manufactured by doctrines that have their own agendas beyond the salvation of humanity. If two camps do exist, it is between observed reality and understanding and those misguided doctrines that punish believers for thinking outside the doctrine.
 

Jose Fly

Fisker of men
Some people have very thin skins and can only support their claims through personal attacks.

I would say that some people think their tribe is the best just because it is the one they picked.

I have noted there is a high degree of predictability in both responses and the content of the responses.
Predictable? LOL....I bet a lot of folks here could write her posts for her. ;)
 

Jose Fly

Fisker of men
Not the first and not the last but we cannot lose hope that they will see the light.
Oh I certainly can. What do I care that she refuses to accept reality and instead chooses to stay with her religious group? She doesn't even live in the same country as me. And it's not like her arguments are so well crafted and solid that she's likely to convince anyone else to join her. In fact, I'd say her posts serve as a pretty good deterrent against sane, rational people seeing any merit in creationism.

With some folks, you're kinda glad they're not on your side.
 

tas8831

Well-Known Member
And some imagine that having a foot in both camps does not obligate them to defend their Creator.....despite their claims to believe in him.....they don’t really believe a word he says. Does intellect override faith then? (Matthew 11:25)
Hey - remember when you claimed that bacteria have immune systems? That was hilarious. Then there are the dozens of times you accused professional scientists of using "jargon" to confuse dimwits, despite you claiming to have studied science for - what was it - decades?
 

tas8831

Well-Known Member
The Taung child skull fossil. Is it human or ape...?

032621_ti_hominid-reconstructions_inline2-800x369.jpg


Chimp and human skull comparisons....
images
images
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Baby chimp...very different to an adult.
images


The actual size of the Taung child skull fossil.
images

Compare them....
Looks more like a baby chimp to me.....

images


Quoted from the article.....
"Depictions of extinct human ancestors and cousins are often more art than science."
Yep, I reckon so too....inventions of human imagination...what a handsome dude......
happy0195.gif

Too much jargon. Who are you trying to fool with your arrogant jargon???
 

tas8831

Well-Known Member
Again-- as I said -- those depictions are interestingly enough, what horror pictures are made of. So there obviously is some feeling about what they look like. A biological anthropologist states, "“They think it is reality,” he says. And that can skew people’s views and reinforce existing prejudices of present-day people." (Hmm, isn't that interesting? "existing prejudices ... hmmm. In those renderings. hmmm)
jesus-getty-525488651.jpg


I didn't know satin existed in bible times....
 

tas8831

Well-Known Member
This is why papers only consider bone structures and scientists only work with fossils. The models you see in museums are only for popular consumption and are not used in scientific analysis.
You would think that all of these self-styled students of science would understand this. @nPeace and @Deeje have declared that phylogenetic trees are the actual evidence used by biologists, not understanding (or wanting to understand) that in reality, they are the OUTPUTS of data analyses. @YoursTrue thinks that artistic renderings are what anthropologists use in research.
If only creationists understood and admitted how little they actually understand.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
What has this anything to do with the subject at hand?

Plus, there is absolutely no link between belief in evolution and racism if only because racism, even "scientific racism" far predates the publishing of Darwin's theory of evolution let alone modern synthesis. Today, most racist people subscribe to some pseudoscientific beliefs about biology and race usually referred to by sociologists as "folk biology" when they even have some sort of pseudoscientific foundations to support their beliefs and attitudes. Most often, its not even the case and racism just comes from a sense of fear and lack of education.
While distorted by some
I trust the techniques based on evidence, established principles and publicly available reports, realizing that new evidence might require adjusting my understanding. I do not expect that dating techniques will give me the minute, hour, day or an exact year that very ancient events occurred.

Having doubts about the accuracy of a dating technique does not mean that the fossil automatically jumps from being 6 million years old to being 6,000 years old.

It seems to be that you want the conclusion to be that if there is any doubt regardless of the source of that doubt or where it is applied, then all estimates of age can and should be thrown out the window. You seem to be setting everything up so that you can discard it without further review.
I realize and read about eugenics when it was not looked down upon by the scholars and class of scientists years ago. Without judgment I was fascinated by it. I spent hours in the college book store reading books about it. Not because I believed in it but I simply found it fascinating. And yes, it is very possible that those who really believed in the process of "survival of the fittest" also believed the European white man to be dah best. I just came across the idea that is interesting about the Hindu class system. I wonder how evolution fits into that, but I guess I'll have to ask someone who is Hindi and believes that.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
You would think that all of these self-styled students of science would understand this. @nPeace and @Deeje have declared that phylogenetic trees are the actual evidence used by biologists, not understanding (or wanting to understand) that in reality, they are the OUTPUTS of data analyses. @YoursTrue thinks that artistic renderings are what anthropologists use in research.
If only creationists understood and admitted how little they actually understand.
Just going over this post, so in other words, you seem to be saying that museums are ok with deceiving the public, right? By the way, what's a creationist?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Did I not suggest that mammals are mammals all one kind that are warm blooded and their offspring are fed milk? Felines do not become canines because they diverged from an earlier mammals and are now on different tracts. No that was not so hard to understand.
Who said that all mammals must be related? That is an assumption, not a probable fact. Many different creatures are mammals....Australia has several that are difficult for scientists to figure out....especially the monotremes.

This is very true and is what leads organisms down different genetic pathways thus to new kinds. The exceptions only remind us of the continued commonality.
Adaptation does not create new “kinds”....it creates new varieties within a “kind”.....real evidence has proven that.

The phantom “common ancestors” have never been identified......and there must be millions of them.....so, where are they? It is asserted that they “must have” existed, but we never see them named. Science assumes that some creatures are part of an evolutionary process, but they cannot prove that a “chain” of evolution has ever existed.......and they happily tell us that there is no “proof” for any of their assumptions......sounds like a snow job to me....smoke and mirrors....the power of suggestion.

But it does only in far greater time frames than human lives can observe. It is dependent on the reproductive time to determine of rate of change.
The “rate of change” is also an assumption. Adaptation has never been seen to go outside of a single species. Suggesting that change can lead to new creatures is not provable......it is a hypothesis, not a fact......defined as.....”a supposition or proposed explanation made on the basis of limited evidence as a starting point for further investigation”.....but you’d never know this judging by the zealous defence of different aspects of this theory, as if it’s not contestable. It is clearly contestable. Empty protests really change nothing.

Suggestions and assertions are not facts and never will be.

At least @Deeje appreciates the life on earth and that we can all come together on.
Indeed....gotta love nature......and that motivates gratitude for its Creator for me.
Who do you thank? “Mother Nature”?
Wrong parent IMO. :rolleyes:
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Who said that all mammals must be related? That is an assumption, not a probable fact. Many different creatures are mammals....Australia has several that are difficult for scientists to figure out....especially the monotremes.


Adaptation does not create new “kinds”....it creates new varieties within a “kind”.....real evidence has proven that.

The phantom “common ancestors” have never been identified......and there must be millions of them.....so, where are they? It is asserted that they “must have” existed, but we never see them named. Science assumes that some creatures are part of an evolutionary process, but they cannot prove that a “chain” of evolution has ever existed.......and they happily tell us that there is no “proof” for any of their assumptions......sounds like a snow job to me....smoke and mirrors....the power of suggestion.


The “rate of change” is also an assumption. Adaptation has never been seen to go outside of a single species. Suggesting that change can lead to new creatures is not provable......it is a hypothesis, not a fact......defined as.....”a supposition or proposed explanation made on the basis of limited evidence as a starting point for further investigation”.....but you’d never know this judging by the zealous defence of different aspects of this theory, as if it’s not contestable. It is clearly contestable. Empty protests really change nothing.

Suggestions and assertions are not facts and never will be.


Indeed....gotta love nature......and that motivates gratitude for its Creator for me.
Who do you thank? “Mother Nature”?
Wrong parent IMO. :rolleyes:
As I was thinking, if I were looking through a microscope at things (cells? Even viruses) moving, and the total organism changing to another form, duplicating itself as the theory of evolution goes such as neanderthals mixing with another presumed sort and moving into homo sapiens, I'd believe it. But as we have seen, there is no evidence of any sort like that to prove the theory of evolution. The "Unknown Common Ancestor" of humans and chimps has never been found.
Viruses remain viruses so far. :)
 

Dan From Smithville

The Flying Elvises, Utah Chapter
Staff member
Premium Member
While distorted by some

I realize and read about eugenics when it was not looked down upon by the scholars and class of scientists years ago. Without judgment I was fascinated by it. I spent hours in the college book store reading books about it. Not because I believed in it but I simply found it fascinating. And yes, it is very possible that those who really believed in the process of "survival of the fittest" also believed the European white man to be dah best. I just came across the idea that is interesting about the Hindu class system. I wonder how evolution fits into that, but I guess I'll have to ask someone who is Hindi and believes that.
Eugenics is not a part of, a claim or prediction of the theory of evolution. In fact, it is based on genetics, since the characters people wanted to limit have a genetic basis. It is artificial and has nothing to do with biological fitness.

Not everything is explained by the theory of evolution. Class systems for instance.
 

Dan From Smithville

The Flying Elvises, Utah Chapter
Staff member
Premium Member
As I was thinking, if I were looking through a microscope at things (cells? Even viruses) moving, and the total organism changing to another form, duplicating itself as the theory of evolution goes such as neanderthals mixing with another presumed sort and moving into homo sapiens, I'd believe it. But as we have seen, there is no evidence of any sort like that to prove the theory of evolution. The "Unknown Common Ancestor" of humans and chimps has never been found.
Viruses remain viruses so far. :)
Still packing all those straw man claims around I see.
 

Dan From Smithville

The Flying Elvises, Utah Chapter
Staff member
Premium Member
While distorted by some

I realize and read about eugenics when it was not looked down upon by the scholars and class of scientists years ago. Without judgment I was fascinated by it. I spent hours in the college book store reading books about it. Not because I believed in it but I simply found it fascinating. And yes, it is very possible that those who really believed in the process of "survival of the fittest" also believed the European white man to be dah best. I just came across the idea that is interesting about the Hindu class system. I wonder how evolution fits into that, but I guess I'll have to ask someone who is Hindi and believes that.
What does any of this have to do with dating techniques that you claimed you were going to begin discussing?
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Dan From Smithville said:
There is actual evidence for Neanderthal and Homo sapiens interbreeding. How is it that you do not seem to understand that? Are you so immersed in denial that you refuse to see it even if it is spelled out for you?
Hi, Dan. Can you please show or explain the evidence you declare?
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
You haven't posted anything that shows that museums, scientists and artists are intentionally deceiving the public. Bias does not have to be intentional.
Hi,Dan. It appears that's what the post said about popularizing the facial and physical characteristics. I don't recall seeing something about intentional deceit. But popularizing the findings is what I read, thus not really telling the "scientific" truth. Since the representative faces and bodies are made up and from my research, quite different from one another of the same supposed person. When I come across it again, I will be happy to give you the information.
 
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