Israel attacks prayers in the Aqsa

[NoahideHiker]

Here's a good op-ed piece done by HonestReporting.com about the temple mount. The thing that I don't get is this isn't even the most holy site in Islam yet people go ape sh!% when they see a Jew with a shovle in his hands anywhere near it yet a Jew isn't even allowed to pray on the temple mount which IS the most hoily site to them.

http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45884734/critiques/Temple_Mount_Truths.asp

 

[almifkhar]

my understanding of this latest episode of al asqa is the israelis have been refusing jordan to do it's up keep of the temple mount, which they are responisible for. that they are doing a dig under the mosques but refuse to say why. now i read on this tread about the so called fixing of a walk way up to the mount, even though the israelis themselves destroyed it in the first place to prevent worshipers to mosques.

but what angered me the most in this latest episode was when the men preformed their prayers in defince while looking at israeli solders in the eye which is a no no in islam.

comprehend said that the jews so graciously allow muslims to worship there. let me explain something to you

we muslims are there to protect the temple mount until the appointed time. saddly we muslims, christians and jews forget or disreguard this.

 

[CaptainXeroid]

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[Ody]

Thursday...While prayers are praying peacfully in the Aqsa (The third holy place for muslims),??

From The Dome Jews at the Wall are stoned...

 

[jamaesi]

Ah yes, MEMRI, just fair and balanced reporting without a hint of bias! Just like FOXNews!

 

[NoahideHiker]

Ah yes, MEMRI, just fair and balanced reporting without a hint of bias! Just like FOXNews!

Are you saying they do not translate the news stories accurately? Or are you merely upset because they are Muslim media outlets they translate and it's embarrassing at times?

 

[jamaesi]

Or are you merely upset because they are Muslim media outlets they translate and it's embarrassing at times?

No, they intentionally pick out the worst that is said and overreport it. Both sides have their nutjobs. I'm not embarassed, hell no, how could I ever be embarassed by Palestinians venting (refering to words, not actions) while their land is being stolen and their children shot?

 

[NoahideHiker]

No, they intentionally pick out the worst that is said and overreport it. Both sides have their nutjobs. I'm not embarassed, hell no, how could I ever be embarassed by Palestinians venting (refering to words, not actions) while their land is being stolen and their children shot?

We disagree on this and that is fine. I really shouldn't have even posted on this thread in the first place.

 

[Comprehend]

No, they intentionally pick out the worst that is said and overreport it. Both sides have their nutjobs. I'm not embarassed, hell no, how could I ever be embarassed by Palestinians venting (refering to words, not actions) while their land is being stolen and their children shot?

Their land is not being stolen, it was won in battle, that has always been a legitimate way to aquire land. Israel has offered 99% of the land back but Arafat refused to accept it. The Palestinians Muslim brothers have turned their backs on the Palestinians. Why do they not take the refugees in? Why do the other Muslim countries not allow the Palestinians to immigrate to Jordan or Egypt or anywhere else?

As far as the articles go, even if your argument about the palestinians is correct, which I disagree with, what about the Egyptians and all the others who write such things? They did not lose any land yet they write things just as bad.

 

[EiNsTeiN]

Well, I'm interested in what comperhend usually say, which is obviously very biased:

Jewscout, I have tried to faithfully defend Jews whenever they have been slandered on this forum and will continue to do so (you have friends). What bewilders me is that people are allowed to post this plainly anti-semitic garbage and not be banned or censored...

am I missing something?

You don't have to say you are defending them, this is pretty obvious!

And actually you are missing something...
Who talked about jews or muslim??
I'm talking about Israel, and not jews, and talking about Palestinains, and not muslims..

That was pretty clear...

Their land is not being stolen, it was won in battle, that has always been a legitimate way to aquire land

mmm...very interesting..

Using this theory, we can claim that Afganistan and Iraq are American lands, since they have been aquired by American troops...

This is the animal kingdom laws(no offense), which I strongly reject...(i.e. the stronger rules)

Israel has offered 99% of the land back but Arafat refused to accept it. The Palestinians Muslim brothers have turned their backs on the Palestinians. Why do they not take the refugees in? Why do the other Muslim countries not allow the Palestinians to immigrate to Jordan or Egypt or anywhere else?

I never knew Israel was that kind...
I remember when they invaded the palestinain portion along with south Lebanon, Jolan mountains and Sainai in Egypt in 1967...
I wonder if this was into the same deal you are talking about..

As far as the articles go, even if your argument about the palestinians is correct, which I disagree with, what about the Egyptians and all the others who write such things? They did not lose any land yet they write things just as bad.

Yet??....so you expect Israel is going to aquire other lands by the same rule?

And who are you kidding?...Israel is the strongest in the middle east, the one which has nuclear weapons and biological ones....
The one which has the strongest air forces..
The one which has a direct support from USA..

How the hell do you expect others to by allied with such a country which threatens the whole region with its mass destructive weapons, and never promised peace for about 60 years...
Moreover, whenever it gets the chance, it goes and invade its neighbors...

come on please!!

(I'm sorry if my words seemed hard or awkward)...

Thanks

 

[jmaster78]

What is the Temple mount? bricks and mortar? a political symbol? A trumph card in a poker game? It may symbolise G-D's seat on earth, but I reacon he moved away along time ago so he could get some peace and quiet. (do you think a G-D of love and peace wants to live in the middle of such bitterness and fighting?) This may sound sacriligious but i think the mount should be cleared of the detritis of religion and left as the same bare piece of rock Abraham stood on. Owned by none, open to all! We've spent so long building our religious structures on the mount not to the glory of G-D, but to proclaime our version of the faith to be dominant. Acting as both physical and mental bulwarks to our own versions, the true faith of a pure love of G-D has has become burried. Like the Jewish, Christian, Muslim masonry that's built up on the mount, maybe if we cleared it all away, and returned the mount to the way it was in Abrahams time, the faith might become visible again like the rock itself.

 

[YmirGF]

What is the Temple mount? bricks and mortar? a political symbol? A trumph card in a poker game? It may symbolise G-D's seat on earth, but I reacon he moved away along time ago so he could get some peace and quiet. (do you think a G-D of love and peace wants to live in the middle of such bitterness and fighting?) This may sound sacriligious but i think the mount should be cleared of the detritis of religion and left as the same bare piece of rock Abraham stood on. Owned by none, open to all! We've spent so long building our religious structures on the mount not to the glory of G-D, but to proclaime our version of the faith to be dominant. Acting as both physical and mental bulwarks to our own versions, the true faith of a pure love of G-D has has become burried. Like the Jewish, Christian, Muslim masonry that's built up on the mount, maybe if we cleared it all away, and returned the mount to the way it was in Abrahams time, the faith might become visible again like the rock itself.

:clap:clap:clap:clap

Enjoy the frubals.

 

[jmaster78]

Their land is not being stolen, it was won in battle, that has always been a legitimate way to aquire land. Israel has offered 99% of the land back but Arafat refused to accept it. The Palestinians Muslim brothers have turned their backs on the Palestinians. Why do they not take the refugees in? Why do the other Muslim countries not allow the Palestinians to immigrate to Jordan or Egypt or anywhere else?

As far as the articles go, even if your argument about the palestinians is correct, which I disagree with, what about the Egyptians and all the others who write such things? They did not lose any land yet they write things just as bad.

Hitler won half of europe in battle! but hey it's not theft if won in battle, is that what you mean? Surely this is just theft only on a global scale. If you think the spoils of war are justified then you must think the conflict itself justified, so why complain about the conflict in the holyland??? Israel was founded on conquest at the expense of the Cannanites and others so you can't really complain when others fight you for the land.

 

[EiNsTeiN]

What is the Temple mount? bricks and mortar? a political symbol? A trumph card in a poker game? It may symbolise G-D's seat on earth, but I reacon he moved away along time ago so he could get some peace and quiet. (do you think a G-D of love and peace wants to live in the middle of such bitterness and fighting?) This may sound sacriligious but i think the mount should be cleared of the detritis of religion and left as the same bare piece of rock Abraham stood on. Owned by none, open to all! We've spent so long building our religious structures on the mount not to the glory of G-D, but to proclaime our version of the faith to be dominant. Acting as both physical and mental bulwarks to our own versions, the true faith of a pure love of G-D has has become burried. Like the Jewish, Christian, Muslim masonry that's built up on the mount, maybe if we cleared it all away, and returned the mount to the way it was in Abrahams time, the faith might become visible again like the rock itself.

Well, holy places are holy...
We are not supposed to fight in holy places, which really makes me upset from the sitiuation, and I really hope if we could reach a peacfull life...(but a true one)

I do agree with your openion in general with little objections to some phrases..

Anyway:

Enjoy the frubals.

 

[EiNsTeiN]

Israel was founded on conquest at the expense of the Cannanites and others so you can't really complain when others fight you for the land.

Once, Gamal Abdel Naser said, that what is taken by strength, can only be returned back by strength....I think it's the human nature

Frabules..

 

[Comprehend]

Well, I'm interested in what comperhend usually say, which is obviously very biased:

You don't have to say you are defending them, this is pretty obvious!

And actually you are missing something...
Who talked about jews or muslim??
I'm talking about Israel, and not jews, and talking about Palestinains, and not muslims..

That was pretty clear...

Wouldn't you agree that most Palestinians are muslim and most Israeli's are Jews?

mmm...very interesting..

Using this theory, we can claim that Afganistan and Iraq are American lands, since they have been aquired by American troops...

Yes, the United States could claim them. They do not however. Do you disagree that this is how international politics has always been? Countries have always taken land by force. It has also always been accepted as legitimate. Do the British ask for America back?

This is the animal kingdom laws(no offense), which I strongly reject...(i.e. the stronger rules)

Yes it is. Locke, Hobbes, Rousseau and Kant call it the state of war. It is a matter of fact that when there are two (or more) sovereign nations, there necessarily must exist a "state of war" between them. Not a literal war mind you, rather it is a description of the authority or lack thereof which exists between sovereign nations. This will always exist until or unless a single sovereign world body is created to rule over all nations. It obviously isn't the best situation but it is reality.

I never knew Israel was that kind...
I remember when they invaded the palestinain portion along with south Lebanon, Jolan mountains and Sainai in Egypt in 1967...
I wonder if this was into the same deal you are talking about..

I believe Israel was attacked before they took that land in 67, no?

The 99% offer was made in the 1990's at Camp David with Bill Clinton, Yassir Arafat and Ariel Sharon (I think Sharon). Arafat stood up at the offer and said "you go to hell" and knocked over the table. Why? I have an idea...

Yet??....so you expect Israel is going to aquire other lands by the same rule?

NO. I think you misunderstood the english. It means the same as this sentence: "They did not lose any land howeverthey write things just as bad."

I think I should have put a comma after "land" to help. I definitely was not saying that Israel is going to take more land. They don't want more. They gave Egypt back the Negev desert when they didn't have to...

And who are you kidding?...Israel is the strongest in the middle east, the one which has nuclear weapons and biological ones....
The one which has the strongest air forces..
The one which has a direct support from USA..

How the hell do you expect others to by allied with such a country which threatens the whole region with its mass destructive weapons, and never promised peace for about 60 years...
Moreover, whenever it gets the chance, it goes and invade its neighbors...

come on please!!

(I'm sorry if my words seemed hard or awkward)...

Thanks

Golda Meir said “We will have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us”

It is also said that if Arab countries laid down their guns, there would be no more war; If Israeli's laid down their guns, there would be no more Israel.

The fact remains Einstein, that the moment Israel began to exist as a nation, the Arabs attacked. They did not give peace an opportunity. They did not give Israel an opportunity. Israel has had to fight for it's existance from day one. Maybe, if Arabs stopped trying to wipe Israel off the map as Amadinezhad says or drive them into the sea as Arafat and others are fond of saying, then Israel would not need so much weaponry.

I must say that it is very lucky that Israel is so powerful. If they were not, the Arabs would have destroyed Israel long ago.

No offense taken, don't worry. I know we see things differently. That is ok. It is good to talk about it. (I think).

 

[YmirGF]

I rather suspect that if her neighbors agreed in Israel's inherent right to existence then resolutions to these difficulties could occur rather rapidly. People tend to overlook the point that a Palestinian homeland was part of the deal with the creation of Israel. Had her neighbors not given Israel such a "warm welcome" at her inception, the Palestinians would most likely already HAVE THEIR HOMELAND. Yet, it is always the big bad Zionists who are at fault.

Last time I checked, Jews have been in the region for thousands of years. It is unrealistic of Arabs to say that they have no right to exist, period. Until Arabs admit their delusion there is going to be problems in the region. The Palestinians NEED to elect a group that represents their interests that will ensure their survival. That is was governments are for, not to pick fights with their neighbors and make specious claims of moral superiority.

 

[jmaster78]

Golda Meir said “We will have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us”

Comprehend, you have referred to the Palestinian use of children as bombers a couple of time now. Bear in mind that Israeli fighters, soldiers, tanks, warships have killed many more Palestinian children! And if Palestine had the backing of a country like America, they wouldn't need to use such drastic counter measures. This idea that Israel is the epitome of civilised behaviour and Palestinians are barbaric is unjust. Both sides want another pound of flesh!

 

[jmaster78]

Comprehend, I hope you don't think I'm taking sides here because of my last reply, that is not the case. I am neutral, i think both sides have made mistakes in equal numbers and severity. I say this to everyone not just you, no one knows what G-D thinks of the situation in Israel, but whether you call him Yehwah or Allah, i doubt any of us will get a pat on the back from him if we still think in this 'it's your fault' mentality when we reach those pearly white gates. and it will be too late for us then. But as long as our feet are still on terra firma we still have time to get our thoughs in order. even if we ourselves don't make much impact on situation itself.

 

[Comprehend]

Hitler won half of europe in battle! but hey it's not theft if won in battle, is that what you mean? Surely this is just theft only on a global scale. If you think the spoils of war are justified then you must think the conflict itself justified, so why complain about the conflict in the holyland??? Israel was founded on conquest at the expense of the Cannanites and others so you can't really complain when others fight you for the land.

and the United States was founded on conquest at the expense of the Native Americans, and every european country took land that used to belong to someone else at some point. That is just the way it works. I can't help it, but I don't know why Israel is somehow different. You think Egypt or Jordan has not taken land from some other people at some point?

Are you denying that victory in battle as an accepted method of aquiring land? I was not supporting or opposing the practice.

Hitler did win half of Europe in battle (if you call what the French did battle), and Hitler would have been able to keep it if nobody objected. However, a lot of countries did object, and they took the land back via victory in battle. This is how the world has always worked. I didn't say it was wonderful, I said it is reality.