Israel: Ethnic Cleansing or Genocide.

[Revoltingest]

The U.S. has spent over $15,000,000,000 in the Syrian civil war and bombed and killed thousands. It maintains military bases in Syria which have been attacked killing American service members. The U.S. has no bases in Israel. If U.S. involvement is your primary criteria for concern of conflicts you should be more concerned with the U.S. involvement in Syrian than what is happening in Gaza.

More whataboutism, eh.
I'll choose my concerns.
This is just as you choose to be unconcerned
with Israel's attacks on of Palestinians....for
which US taxpayers have paid much more
than $15B.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Nice dance.

How exactly is it a "dance" for me to acknowledge the obvious fact that I am not responsible for Israeli military strategy?

Also, editing my response to remove the subsequent explanation is flagrantly dishonest. Here's the bit you deliberately missed in order to misrepresent me:

"that's the job of the IDF. I would hazard a guess, however, that cutting off aid, food, water and killing tens of thousands of civilians - including Israeli hostages - isn't strictly "necessary"."

I thought you were above this. Apparently, you're not. Please spend less time jerking your knees at people expressing an opinion no less controversial than "Israel shouldn't do war crimes" - a sentiment YOU AGREE WITH.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

How exactly is it a "dance" for me to acknowledge the obvious fact that I am not responsible for Israeli military strategy?

Also, editing my response to remove the subsequent explanation is flagrantly dishonest. Here's the bit you deliberately missed in order to misrepresent me:

"that's the job of the IDF. I would hazard a guess, however, that cutting off aid, food, water and killing tens of thousands of civilians - including Israeli hostages - isn't strictly "necessary"."

I thought you were above this. Apparently, you're not. Please spend less time jerking your knees at people expressing an opinion no less controversial than "Israel shouldn't do war crimes" - a sentiment YOU AGREE WITH.

There was absolutely nothing dishonest about my post. I frequently limit my quotes to that part of a post that is relevant yo whatever comment I intend to make.

I was curious about what you felt might be necessary, not what you deem not "strictly 'necessary'". Your response was evasive at best. Stop whining.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

There was absolutely nothing dishonest about my post.

Yes there was.

I frequently limit my quotes to that part of a post that is relevant yo whatever comment I intend to make.

You accused me of "dancing" despite me directly addressing your criticism, and you deliberately omitted the part of my post where I did. You cannot pretend it was not deliberate.

I was curious about what you felt might be necessary, not what you deem not "strictly 'necessary'"

Now who's dancing?

Your response was evasive at best. Stop whining.

This is pathetic and beneath you. Do better.

 

[Debater Slayer]

There are many Christians there too, who don't seem to get a look in. Many of them have also condemned Israel.

Yes, and I believe the fact that victims of Israel's policies are not exclusively Muslim bears repetition and emphasis. The world's oldest Christian community, located in Bethlehem, canceled all celebrations last Christmas in response to Israel's actions in Gaza:

Brother John Vinh, a Franciscan monk from Vietnam who has lived in Jerusalem for six years, told the AP in Bethlehem that a nativity scheme in the Square showed baby Jesus wrapped in a white shroud, evoking a similar image of the thousands of children killed in Gaza.

Christmas has been canceled in Bethlehem this year

The city of Bethlehem, the biblical birthplace of Jesus, is usually bustling with holiday festivities and decor this time of year, but this year, celebrations were called off in the wake of Israel&…

thehill.com

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Yes, and I believe the fact that victims of Israel's policies are not exclusively Muslim bears repetition and emphasis. The world's oldest Christian community, located in Bethlehem, canceled all celebrations last Christmas in response to Israel's actions in Gaza:

Christmas has been canceled in Bethlehem this year

The city of Bethlehem, the biblical birthplace of Jesus, is usually bustling with holiday festivities and decor this time of year, but this year, celebrations were called off in the wake of Israel&…

thehill.com

Another group of victims is, of course, Jews:

Violent Police Raid in Jerusalem, Palestinian Flags Removed and Anti-Zionist Jews Assaulted

Israeli police officers can be seen aggressively attacking Jewish residents and knocking them to the ground during a raid on an anti-Zionist Jewish neighbourhood in Jerusalem today. The brutal crackdown...

www.google.com

Israeli police break up ultra-Orthodox Jews’ military service protest

Israeli police broke up a protest by ultra-Orthodox Jews who are fighting to remain exempt from military service.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[dybmh]

See the recent WFP report.

A 31 truck convoy reached northern Gaza last night.

 

[dybmh]

Yes, and I believe the fact that victims of Israel's policies are not exclusively Muslim bears repetition and emphasis.

Yet you ignore the reasons for those policies: the unjust war that is waged against israel and jews by the nation of Palestine.

 

[Revoltingest]

And I do not agree.

What would you view as necessary to eliminate Hamas as an existential threat and free the hostages?

This pro Israel position is either deluded paranoia
or outright dishonesty.
Hamas doesn't pose an existential threat to Israel
which has full military & financial backing of the
most powerful country on the planet.
Treating Hamas as an existential threat a facade to
justify unleashing overkill, massacring tens of thousands
of innocents in bogus pursuit of "eliminating" Hamas,
& then driving the survivors out of Gaza permanently.
This last goal is the final criterion to make it genocide
under the 1948 UN definition

 

[Revoltingest]

A 31 truck convoy reached northern Gaza last night.

An inadequate gesture is mere propaganda.
The starvation & killings continue.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

A 31 truck convoy reached northern Gaza last night.

OK

 

[dybmh]

An inadequate gesture is mere propaganda.

The bottleneck on aid distribution is not israeli. Air drops of aid are also ongoing. Diversification of distribution methods in this way reduces looting and bandits which have become a problem. The aid to Gaza is increasing.

The point is: israel's intention is not to harm the innocent civilians directly via bombs or indirectly by blocking aid. They do not intend to drive them from their homes, steal their land, or the the other anti-israel talking points which are being regurgitated. They are documenting their actions, per the ICJ's request. There is accountability and transparency built into the SLA framework. That's it's "raison d'etre".

 

[Revoltingest]

The bottleneck on aid distribution is not israeli. Air drops of aid are also ongoing. Diversification of distribution methods in this way reduces looting and bandits which have become a problem. The aid to Gaza is increasing.

The point is: israel's intention is not to harm the innocent civilians directly via bombs or indirectly by blocking aid. They do not intend to drive them from their homes, steal their land, or the the other anti-israel talking points which are being regurgitated. They are documenting their actions, per the ICJ's request. There is accountability and transparency built into the SLA framework. That's it's "raison d'etre".

Words say one thing.
Actions say something very different.

 

[dybmh]

Words say one thing.
Actions say something very different.

The actions are the convoy of trucks that are now reaching northern Gaza in spite of UNRWA/HAMAS. The actions are the air-drops of aid scattered across Gaza. The actions are the repair of water lines. The actions are the rebuilding of bakeries and providing them with flour. The actions are protection of safe neighborhoods in central Gaza where markets are operating and the suffering is manageable. The actions are DAILY pauses in military operations in 6 hour increments to permit movement throughout the war zone to access support services. The actions are field hospitals setup throughout Gaza. The actions are opening the ports to naval hospitals docking off the coast of Gaza. The actions are delivering fuel to the hospitals and securing those deliveries.

The actions are the warnings given to the public, surrendering the military advantage of a surprise attack.

 

[dybmh]

I proclaim genocide based on evidence.

What is your method for collecting evidence of the lack of military necessity of israel's actions?

I'll wait.

 

[Regiomontanus]

There are many Christians there too, who don't seem to get a look in. Many of them have also condemned Israel.

Indeed. An Orthodox church there is supposedly the third oldest in the world:

Church of Saint Porphyrius - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Revoltingest]

What is your method for collecting evidence of the lack of military necessity of israel's actions?

News, eg, soldiers shooting children, shooting people
in the back of the head, shooting into crowds of civilians,
shooting their own hostages holding a white flag,
the stated intention of prioritizing destruction over
accuracy.

 

[metis]

Some people are throwing the word "genocide" around here like it's candy being tossed around at a parade.

If Israel were to use actual genocide, they would begin to kill and/or detain all Palestinians in all areas that it controls. Are they doing that? Obviously, not.

OTOH, if "Palestinians" would get the upper hand, what do you think they would do? We've already seen some of what they would do on 10-7.

Let me leave some here again with this question: If a group of terrorists send by a governing power, gang raped your daughter, kidnapped your son, and is firing rockets into your village, what do you propose doing? just talk about it? relitigate the past? I'll tell ya right now what most of you would most likely do as we've seen so many examples of this in the past: Pearl Harbor; bombing cities during WWII; 9-11; etc.

I know I keep asking this question, but I don't get any responses from those who simply just can't deal with reality but yet are so willing to blame Israel for basically everything. There's a name for that kind of bigotry.

 

[Lyndon]

I haven't seen any evidence of rape occurring except from the Israeli propaganda machine, there were no rape kits, DNA evidence etc. I've even heard reports that half the Israelis killed were by friendly fire

 

[metis]

I haven't seen any evidence of rape occurring except from the Israeli propaganda machine, there were no rape kits, DNA evidence etc. I've even heard reports that half the Israelis killed were by friendly fire

Maybe try this: Sexual and gender-based violence in the 7 October attack on Israel - Wikipedia

Also, an elderly women released about three weeks ago said she saw one of the younger woman gang-raped while in one of the tunnels. But then, do you really give a damn?