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Israel Fires on Humanitarian Aid Flotilla
- Thread starter Hyperborean
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It's a childish and irrelevant question.
Ignorant rubbish.
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
Anything constructive to say Jay?
MissAlice
Well-Known Member
Ah great answer Jayhawker, I look so much to your other posters for such knowledge to look forward to.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Were Jay's words too harsh? I would describe your comment as naive drivel, but hey, that's just me.
OK. I'll rephrase it: Does anyone have a link to some source for the claim the flotilla was carrying arms to Gaza or was Jay just having a wet dream when he claimed it was? Is that better Jay?
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Apparently, not.
Darkness
Psychoanalyst/Marxist
I stand corrected ...
Is everything you do spiteful and mean? I had a heated debate with a few members in this thread (yourself included). I apologised if I hurt anyone. Now, when I ask you an honest question, you cannot even engage me sincerely.
Perhaps Poisonshady or Arimoff will be more hospitable and help me out with this. If there are statements and manifestos about judenrein, I am sincerely interested in reading/watching them. :yes:
One might certainly expect you of all people to know naive drivel, so it's surprising how wrong you are this time.
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
I wasn't expecting a response.
Its become common practice to see insults, rudeness and the sort of rule breaking posts get ignored sadly
I know Jay is smart, i'd just like to see him justify his reponses.
Its become common practice to see insults, rudeness and the sort of rule breaking posts get ignored sadly
Maybe it's time it no longer gets ignored.
MissAlice
Well-Known Member
You know YmirGF, I'd normally agree and disagree with your points but thus far all you have done is tell me what I am without explaining your useless drivel except tell me how naive I am.
Can you explain?
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kai
ragamuffin
perhaps you could explain why? plain and simply of course.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Thank you for the indirect compliment, Phil.
The bottom line, Phil is that it is really a matter of opinion. Do you seriously think that Israel had much other choice than to send in her soldiers? This was a staged event supported by the Turkish government. In that context it runs perilously close to an act of war because the pretext behind the "Freedom Flotilla" was a ruse. It was a deliberate attack on Israeli sovereignty.
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
Israel did take the bait, but what else were they meant to do?
kai
ragamuffin
i dont think it was a matter of taking the bait, it was a well publicized exercise in poking the tiger.
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
kai
ragamuffin
yes, i don't know about Oz but here there's now an atmosphere of Israel being guilty unless found innocent, the full story is gradually unfolding and i think people that care to see beyond the "Israel bad everyone else good" stance, is getting the full picture now
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
My apologies, MissAlice.
1. The so-called "Freedom Flotilla" was a ruse. Gaza in not quite in as desperate condition as the organizer would have you believe. They are certainly not starving.
2. Hamas has now come out and blocked the entrance of some of the aid that was sent to them via the so-called "Freedom Flotilla".
3. A lot of medicine that was a part of the "aid" expired between February and November 2009. (So one can only wonder why they would bother sending it at all.)
4. The "Islamist" government of Turkey was very vocal in its support of said "Flotilla" which is odd because Turkey hasn't been particularly supportive of the Palestinian "cause" to date. Their new found interest is curious if not outright suspicious.
5. The entire world knows about the blockade setup by Israel. There is strong legal opinions on both sides of the fence as to the legality of such a move. However, Israel considers it a national security matter therefore they do have certain rights to ensure their interests are protected.
6. None of the current political parties in Gaza are particularly trustworthy and Hamas is still deemed by the USA and many other countries to be a terrorist organization regardless of what the Palestinian people think politically. Hamas has not been particularly good for Gaza and from what I can glean Gazan's are getting a bit fed up with them.
From a strategic standpoint, Israel was put into a very awkward position. In any case, they understood that from a media relation point of view things would go badly for them. The bottom line is that national security was at stake and they had no reason whatsoever to believe that the "Freedom Flotilla" was what it billed itself to be. Did Israel want to take the chance that weapons were being smuggled in with the aid supplies? Could Israel trust the increasingly Islamist government of Turkey that everything was "kosher"? Could they allow the ships to land in Gaza uncontested?
Do bear in mind that the some of the more zealous "peace activists" were recorded saying, “Remember, Khaibar, Khaibar, oh Jews! The army of Muhammad will return!” Do you have any idea how significant that chant is to both Muslims and Jews? Oddly I don't remember Gandi or Martin Luther King reminding their foes of the days when those foes had been defeated and the concept of second-class citizenship became part of tradition. This was not a chant to take part in a peaceful embrace. Khaibar represents Islamic dominance, Jewish second-class citizenship and their eventual expulsion for Khaibar.
Do bear in mind that several participants openly talked about reaching Gaza or reaching Martyrdom. They seems good with either scenario.
In light of this and other tidbits Israel had no other real choices. To allow the "Freedom Flotilla" to land in Gaza would have been an unmitigated disaster. Hamas cannot be trusted and by association, those who would seek to help Hamas also cannot be trusted. The assurances of the increasingly shrill Turkish Prime Minister also cannot be trusted.
It is unfortunate that the Israeli soldiers felt compelled to use deadly force, but they had every right to stop the "Freedom Flotilla" and board it. The blame rests solely on the shoulders of the folks who attacked the soldiers. Who, in their right mind, would attack soldiers that are boarding a vessel? Do try to be serious in your answer. I am thinking its sort of like driving and having the "right of way". That is all well and good for the most part, but when you cross the path of on oncoming semi-trailer it does little good to tell St. Peter "But, I had the right of way!" In such a case it is probably better to just move aside and get out of the way... unless one has an agenda.
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