Fair enough.
I asked because it seemed to me that the poster I was replying to was deliberately misrepresenting other poster's views, and was giving the benefit of the doubt.
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Israel-Gaza : The bitter harvest of hate
- Thread starter Jayhawker Soule
- Start date
I asked because it seemed to me that the poster I was replying to was deliberately misrepresenting other poster's views, and was giving the benefit of the doubt.
As a "progressive Jew" I often feel like I'm walking a tightrope. On the one hand I am sensitive to antisemitic subtext and innuendo. On the other, I think it dangerous to define down "antisemitism" (and, for that matter, "genocide") and prefer that it be used with extreme caution.
Truce?
Israel killed more Palestinians in the preceding
year than any in the preceding decade. Israel
had been ramping up the killing & oppression.
Israel is responsible for such foreseeable violent
resistance to its brutality & theft.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Seriously delusional by ignoring cause & effect while also ignoring the simple fact that Hamas and other Iranian surrogates are attacking Israel and shipping in the Red Sea.
I'm surprised to see you admit that about yourself.
It's about time you recognized that the Jewish State
is a horribly brutal & murderous regime....even if it
is only Muslims being tortured, maimed, murdered,
& driven from their homes.
I try and put the current Hamas war in context of the history of millennia of religious tribal btween Judaism, Christianity and Islam. The Turf war over Palestine reflects that all three religions consider it sacred ground in one way or another with no room for compromise.
I acknowledge the horrific war crimes committed by Hamas and Israel. The current war crimes by Hamas is greater, but in history all sides have been guilty of horrific crimes against humanity.
I, of course, would support a two state solution and they both have a right to exist, but neither Israel nor the Palestinians would in reality permit this. Both sides have a permanent religious mandate policy to eliminate the other. Over the recent history of the state of Israel the policy was to systematically remove Muslims form the State of Israel which includes all of what all of what was Palestine. The goal of the Muslims including the surrounding nations was to eliminate Israel.
Israel and the surrounding Islamic states are as a matter of fact Theocracies ultimately ruled by their perspective religion or tribal divisions of Islam. The Israel Declaration declares it a Jewish Nation, and their immigration policy reflects that. Only Jews can immigrate to Israel.
Eventually Israel will prevail and the Muslim Palestinians will be slowly ethnically cleansed from Israel and including what was the Islamic Palestinian land that was originally intended to be a part of a two state solution. The settlement policy over recent history reflects this goal, the eviction of Palestinians from their land and the bulldozing the villages.
This represents the facts of history without taking sides. There are no angels here.
I acknowledge the horrific war crimes committed by Hamas and Israel. The current war crimes by Hamas is greater, but in history all sides have been guilty of horrific crimes against humanity.
I, of course, would support a two state solution and they both have a right to exist, but neither Israel nor the Palestinians would in reality permit this. Both sides have a permanent religious mandate policy to eliminate the other. Over the recent history of the state of Israel the policy was to systematically remove Muslims form the State of Israel which includes all of what all of what was Palestine. The goal of the Muslims including the surrounding nations was to eliminate Israel.
Israel and the surrounding Islamic states are as a matter of fact Theocracies ultimately ruled by their perspective religion or tribal divisions of Islam. The Israel Declaration declares it a Jewish Nation, and their immigration policy reflects that. Only Jews can immigrate to Israel.
Eventually Israel will prevail and the Muslim Palestinians will be slowly ethnically cleansed from Israel and including what was the Islamic Palestinian land that was originally intended to be a part of a two state solution. The settlement policy over recent history reflects this goal, the eviction of Palestinians from their land and the bulldozing the villages.
This represents the facts of history without taking sides. There are no angels here.
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Yerda
Veteran Member
But would there be 25,000 dead Gazans right now if Hamas had not chosen to commit the atrocity on October 7th?
I'm guessing not. It wouldn't be hopscotch and lemonade exactly, but we wouldn't be watching the horror show we are now.
In a sequence of linked events, one should understand
which are fundamental. In this conflict, it's Israel's
many decades of severe & violent oppression of
Palestinians that repeatedly & inexorably leads to
violent retaliation / resistance. So Oct 7 was just a
an expected kind of outcome.
At risk of reviving a dead thread, I thought this post was worth addressing.
Hamas does not have a military/political wing distinction.This muddies the waters, as many (if not most) members of Hamas were activists or administrative who were not engaged in military activity (not sure if this has changed during the war). Members of the international community can clearly see the legal and moral differences between being in Sinn Fein and the provos, but this is not possible for to do for an Islamic terrorist and a supporter of the movement. This has lead to controversy in the past: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canada-examining-contribution-to-un-agency-1.500892.
This lack of separation means that the non-militants for better or worse are legally legitimate targets because the entire organization has the terrorist designation, not just those engaged in terrorist activities. Perhaps the lack of distinction is an attempt to 'swim amongst the people' as the Chinese would say, it does seem to suit Hamas's aims, but in my view is irresponsible and does endanger civilians.
The Israeli ambassador previously claimed in 2007 that if Hamas were to change to be more similar to the IRA that Israel would be more able to engage in peace talks based on coexistence: Opinion | Hamas is not the IRA (Published 2007).
I'm not sure Israel would, but if Hamas reformists were able to do such I think it would be a good thing.
The IRA swore allegiance to the Dáil, and PIRA's political wing was Sinn Fein.
Hamas does not have a military/political wing distinction.This muddies the waters, as many (if not most) members of Hamas were activists or administrative who were not engaged in military activity (not sure if this has changed during the war). Members of the international community can clearly see the legal and moral differences between being in Sinn Fein and the provos, but this is not possible for to do for an Islamic terrorist and a supporter of the movement. This has lead to controversy in the past: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canada-examining-contribution-to-un-agency-1.500892.
This lack of separation means that the non-militants for better or worse are legally legitimate targets because the entire organization has the terrorist designation, not just those engaged in terrorist activities. Perhaps the lack of distinction is an attempt to 'swim amongst the people' as the Chinese would say, it does seem to suit Hamas's aims, but in my view is irresponsible and does endanger civilians.
The Israeli ambassador previously claimed in 2007 that if Hamas were to change to be more similar to the IRA that Israel would be more able to engage in peace talks based on coexistence: Opinion | Hamas is not the IRA (Published 2007).
I'm not sure Israel would, but if Hamas reformists were able to do such I think it would be a good thing.
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