Israel

[Curious_Cat]

I don't have any hope of a solution. Both sides have ethnic bigotry and religious fanaticism running wild. The Jews think God gave them that land as an eternal inheritance (despite the fact that many Jews have no genetic ties to that land, so it's a religious claim, first and foremost) and the Arabs are fanatical about Islamic nationalism and that is certainly on the ascendency throughout the world. Both are tribalistic ideologies that put "their own kind" first.

:clap:yes:

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Better hide your pets ey!?

Im joking.

They're safe inside with me. My neighborhood is overrun with backwards third worlders. I actually should look up whether those particular people eat cats. But that's another topic.

 

[Curious_Cat]

Do tell.

Modern rebuilding efforts
Although in mainstream Orthodox Judaism the rebuilding of the Temple is generally left to the coming of the Jewish Messiah and to Divine Providence, a number of organizations, generally representing a small minority of even Orthodox Jews, have been formed with the objective of realizing the immediate construction of a Third Temple in present times. These organizations include:

Organizations
The Temple Institute and the Temple Mount and Eretz Yisrael Faithful Movement each state that its goal is to build the Third Temple on the Temple Mount (Mount Moriah). The Temple Institute has already made several items to be used in the Third Temple.
Third Temple - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why dont you share some of your jewish wisdom?

 

[Curious_Cat]

They're safe inside with me. My neighborhood is overrun with backwards third worlders. I actually should look up whether those particular people eat cats. But that's another topic.

I **** you not, cats and dogs, smells horrible! Bit off topic. Not all 3rd worlders, Its just normal in some cultures I guess.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I **** you not, cats and dogs, smells horrible! Bit off topic. Not all 3rd worlders, Its just normal in some cultures I guess.

I know. It's a rare thing, globally speaking. My neighbors are just very backwards people, so it wouldn't be a surprise. I don't see their country listed on Wiki's article about cultures that eat cats, though. It's mostly a practice in East Asia. The Japanese are a modern people but they eat fish while they're still alive. Some cultures are just disgusting in how they treat animals, including ours (people eating cats and dogs is a problem in Hawaii, surprisingly.)

But this is off-topic so I digress.

 

[Flankerl]

Why dont you share some of your jewish wisdom?

Wisdom? I call it reading comprehension.

From you link.
"generally representing a small minority of even Orthodox Jews"


But let me guess in your mind it reads "generally representing a huge majority of all Jews world wide".

 

[jewscout]

I, frankly, don't see a peace happening in my children's lifetimes. Amd the idea of forming a single secular state seems like a recipe for destruction and death...but I guess when it's not in you neighborhood, who cares?

 

[SkylarHunter]

I don't want to be too negative, but based on everything that happened so far, I can't imagine a solution that wouldn't include a huge degree of destruction and massive loss of lives on both sides.

 

[seeking4truth]

Can justice exist in this situation?

The idea of a just, secular state where everyone has equal rights sounds wonderful but is there a starting point that is just to all.

 

[DawudTalut]

Call a (round) table conference.

 

[CMike]

Is there a solution to the problems in Israel?
What would be a just solution?

The conflict of the past seven days has surely done nothing more than create hatred and desire for revenge that will fuel more years of conflict.

I think the quote from Golda Meir below sums it up well.

Below is an excellent summary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEKwXsmDXOA

 

[Moishe3rd]

Jordan and Syria were already inhabited by Muslims. I meant that it is unnatural to take an entire nation and transfer them into a country which is already occupied by another nation.

Actually, Jordan was pretty much inhabited by nobody.
What they did was take an entire nation - the Hashemites of the Hijaz, which was invaded and conquered by another nation, the Saudis of the Nejd, and place them to rule over a loosely defined area of the British Mandate of Palestine East of the Jordan river.
The area was sparsely populated by various Arab tribes at the time.
After the establishment of the State of Israel, many of the Arab refugees ended up in Transjordan, East of the Jordan river and then, of course, in Jordan, West of the Jordan river.
Jordan tried to absorb most of those particular tribes until they tried to overthrow the government of Jordan (Black September) at which point, Jordan kicked out that "Palestinian" nation where they migrated to Lebanon to destroy that country until the Israelis finally kicked them out of there...

But, from the tone of your response, it doesn't really matter what nation invaded what nation and occupied them, you appear to believe that as long as they are Muslim and not Jewish or Christian or any other Middle Eastern religion, it's okay.
But, if they were to be Jewish or Christian or some other tribal religion, even though they had lived there for the last 3,000 years, it's not okay because they aren't Muslim.
Isn't that a tad racist?

 

[Moishe3rd]

There is a solution. Unfortunately it probably requires vastly more violence. The hope that Palestinians will be bludgeoned into acquiescence is no more likely than Zionists accepting a single secular state. Zionists have good reason not to trust the Muslim leaders, and Palestinians have been strung along for generations by corrupt leaders promising what can't be delivered. But the egg cannot be unscrambled either.

Hamas' days look numbered. That will leave a power vacuum. I expect it to be filled by some group better organized, funded, and armed. I think 2015 is going to be worst year there since 1967. Iran is no longer cowed by USA military muscle. Isis keeps growing in power. Egypt is a mess. Nothing is certain except that the people who matter still think violence will get them what they want. This isn't new and it isn't getting better.

It's getting worse.

Tom

If Hamas is actually eliminated, I suspect that some power such as Egypt will try and take benign control of Gaza, with the majority of the Gazan's acquiescence.
If they become peaceful and non aggressive, with the amount of monies that pour into there, they will be the first independent Palestinian State and be a sort of Arab Riviera of the Middle East.

However, I suspect that Hamas will not be destroyed.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

If Hamas is actually eliminated, I suspect that some power such as Egypt will try and take benign control of Gaza, with the majority of the Gazan's acquiescence.

And you base this on what? Iraq? Libya? Can you point to a single informed commentator who shares that view?

 

[metis]

Egypt almost certainly won't be willing to accept the problems inherent with Gaza. If Hamas is eliminated, about the only scenario I can picture is that the U.N. might be willing to temporarily orchestrate new elections with the possibility that el-Fatah may be elected. It's a long shot, but I think it could be possible.

 

[Sonofason]

"This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land. I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. There will be one king over all of them and they will never again be two nations or be divided into two kingdoms." (Ezekiel 37:21-22)

 

[Moishe3rd]

And you base this on what? Iraq? Libya? Can you point to a single informed commentator who shares that view?

Wishful thinking.
And, that al Sissi seems to have an interest in a pacified Gaza.

 

[Estro Felino]

But, from the tone of your response, it doesn't really matter what nation invaded what nation and occupied them, you appear to believe that as long as they are Muslim and not Jewish or Christian or any other Middle Eastern religion, it's okay.
But, if they were to be Jewish or Christian or some other tribal religion, even though they had lived there for the last 3,000 years, it's not okay because they aren't Muslim.
Isn't that a tad racist?

From a juridic point of view, the nouns "Jewish" and "Muslim" are absolutely irrelevant. A modern state is supposed to be secular, but I understand that the Middle East is full of theocracies. To us Europeans, Theocracy is synonym of cultural regress (no offense) because we Europeans have always fought to establish democratic, secular and enlightened governments. The French motto, Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité, is an example of this struggle.

So peace is obtained through enlightened ideas and secularism. Religion is irrational and can never match with the common welfare of a state.

 

[ametist]

From a juridic point of view, the nouns "Jewish" and "Muslim" are absolutely irrelevant. A modern state is supposed to be secular, but I understand that the Middle East is full of theocracies. To us Europeans, Theocracy is synonym of cultural regress (no offense) because we Europeans have always fought to establish democratic, secular and enlightened governments. The French motto, Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité, is an example of this struggle.

So peace is obtained through enlightened ideas and secularism. Religion is irrational and can never match with the common welfare of a state.

i really cant give you enough frubals!

 

[CMike]

Is there a solution to the problems in Israel?
What would be a just solution?

The conflict of the past seven days has surely done nothing more than create hatred and desire for revenge that will fuel more years of conflict.

The biggest mistake is the legitimation of Hamas. They are given billions of dollars that instead of going for it's intentded purpose of aiding the arabs, it goes to building terror tunnels and rockets.;

The Obama Administration legitimzes Hamas ensuring there will never be peace. They are an organization that once all the jews in Israel DEAD and has said so repeatedly.

The arab side needs leadership that truely wants peace. They don't at this point.