Israeli Duty to Warn? What unmitigated gall (chutzpah)

[Shaul]

I will simply note the following. This question is not being raised to other countries involved in wars. For example no one has raised this issue of the Ukraine nor Russia being somehow needing to give such warnings. It seems, once again, that Israel is held to a different impractical standard.

 

[Ebionite]

Voting for a politician should not make the individuals responsible for their actions.

Voting is just another form of endorsement. If you endorse a criminal then there are consequences for that.

With them heights, i dont see it

The height doesn't matter. The same argument applies if you grind a short piece of chalk into a long one - there is no way that the long one can be completely destroyed.

I never dug into the issue that deep

I did. Bin Laden was blamed by the media right away, but the FBI never connected him to 9/11.

Just as our politicians made and make mistakes, but condemning US is wrong. The same with HAMAS, I cannot blame palestinians for what they did.

Mistakes have consequences. Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action. There's a difference between those who were at the scene of the crime and those who carried it out.

Some read it that way, I dont.

That's your problem.

OK. Even so, slander is not a reason to commit an atrocity

Of course. The point is that false witnesses are meaningful when you're dealing with religious conflicts.

A lie is not a devil. Close to jinn. A misleading information, causing an evil. Religions cause that all over the world.

Devil is just the description of the slanderer. It's more than misleading information because it's directed at someone.

 

[Ebionite]

I will simply note the following. This question is not being raised to other countries involved in wars. For example no one has raised this issue of the Ukraine nor Russia being somehow needing to give such warnings. It seems, once again, that Israel is held to a different impractical standard.

The difference is that today's Israel originated as a political state, not as a country.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Shedding innocent blood is condemned.

Define 'innocent' in the context of Islamic doctrine.

 

[Ebionite]

Define 'innocent' in the context of Islamic doctrine.

Why would I want to do that?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

They have more than received their pound of flesh in the dead of children and noncombatants. It is time to back off.

The UN is far from perfect, but it is better than Israel running amok in revenge.

I get you, and I'm not arguing against you.

But it has occurred to me that there's a question that often seems really, really hard to answer: "What is the 'proportianate response' to beheading an infant, or burning young party-goers alive in their cars?"

Tell you truthfully, I wouldn't begin to know how to answer that.

And yet, I don't want to see Palestinian infants have their heads cut off, or Palestinians party-goers burnt alive.

I guess....thank goodness I'm not in anybody's leadership!

 

[Wandering Monk]

Why would I want to do that?

Who you consider innocent and Islamic law thinks are innocent may be different.

 

[Ebionite]

Who you consider innocent and Islamic law thinks are innocent may be different.

So what?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I get you, and I'm not arguing against you.

But it has occurred to me that there's a question that often seems really, really hard to answer: "What is the 'proportianate response' to beheading an infant, or burning young party-goers alive in their cars?"

Tell you truthfully, I wouldn't begin to know how to answer that.

And yet, I don't want to see Palestinian infants have their heads cut off, or Palestinians party-goers burnt alive.

I guess....thank goodness I'm not in anybody's leadership!

I cannot come up with a reasonable answer myself. Unfortunately there were a lot Palestinian children killed in the first day too. Hamas tend to use children as shields to areas that they want to defend. And there were reports of finding just severed heads from the explosions. I wish that the UN had enough courage to step in. And also charge HAMAs with clear war crimes. Not only of attacking innocent Israelis, but also for their practice of using their own people as sheilds.

 

[We Never Know]

Should I infer that you think this is some new rule of war? Some symmetry in casualties?

Its easy to predict something that has been in the news every day and night lol

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I cannot come up with a reasonable answer myself. Unfortunately there were a lot Palestinian children killed in the first day too. Hamas tend to use children as shields to areas that they want to defend. And there were reports of finding just severed heads from the explosions. I wish that the UN had enough courage to step in. And also charge HAMAs with clear war crimes. Not only of attacking innocent Israelis, but also for their practice of using their own people as sheilds.

On the matter of using children (or even just any civilians) as shields, I have no reservations -- that is evil that ought to be beyond redemption.

 

[We Never Know]

....with overkill.
Hamas knew that too.
Which would mean that it serves their purpose
to have Israel seen as brutal oppressors & killers,
which will inspire more attacks on Israel.

IMO this goes the same with war..

 

[Revoltingest]

The one that bugs me, is the scope of 'everyone hate us/me/jews".

Nothing warrants or substantiates what HAMAS has done but likewise of the other team. It is just ugly to see just how much bias exists.

USA is sending ammo to Israel to enhance the slaughter.
But it does nothing to help the Palestinians under siege
to survive or escape. My government simply continues
what hasn't worked...except to cause continued hostility,
destruction, & death.

 

[icehorse]

USA is sending ammo to Israel to enhance the slaughter.
But it does nothing to help the Palestinians under siege
to survive or escape. My government simply continues
what hasn't worked...except to cause continued hostility,
destruction, & death.

Well it's citizens would not be willing to give up ME oil, now would they?

 

[Ebionite]

On the matter of using children (or even just any civilians) as shields, I have no reservations -- that is evil that ought to be beyond redemption.

That practice goes back to the Jewish assassins (Sicarri) who used the crowd as cover after they had dispatched their target.

“Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel's creation” ~ Avner Cohen

 

[Wandering Monk]

So what?

Well it's citizens would not be willing to give up ME oil, now would they?

Only about 9% of US oil imports come from the Middle East.

U.S. Oil Imports by Country​

According to data from the U.S. Energy and Information Administration, the United States imported between 8.1-8.8 million barrels of crude oil per day from July-December 2021. Just over a million barrels per day come from OPEC (Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries) nations, led by roughly 550,000 barrels a day from Saudi Arabia. The U.S. also imports nearly 7.5 million barrels of crude oil per day from non-OPEC nations. Chief among these is Canada, which supplies the U.S. with approximately 4.7 million barrels per day, significantly more than any other nation.​

​

Top 10 Countries from Which the U.S. Imports Oil (in barrels per day Dec. 2021):​

1. Canada — 4,783,000
2. Mexico — 645,000
3. Saudi Arabia — 550,000
4. Russia — 405,000
5. Colombia — 228,000
6. Iraq — 223,000
7. Ecuador — 219,000
8. United Kingdom — 126,000
9. Nigeria — 110,000
10. South Korea — 102,00.

US Oil Imports by Country 2024

worldpopulationreview.com

 

[PureX]

Hamas, unprovoked and without warning, attacked Israel on Saturday, October 7.

UNPROVOKED??? My, is THAT a stretch!

 

[Revoltingest]

Well it's citizens would not be willing to give up ME oil, now would they?

Assuming you meant "its", I don't see this as
about oil. Moreover, USA helping to continue
the violence will keep oil prices higher (IMO).

 

[icehorse]

@Wandering Monk @Revoltingest

Assuming you meant "its", I don't see this as
about oil. Moreover, USA helping to continue
the violence will keep oil prices higher (IMO).

Why do you guys think US politicians kowtow to SA and their like?

 

[Revoltingest]

@Wandering Monk @Revoltingest



Why do you guys think US politicians kowtow to SA and their like?

First, let me ask if you think Saudi oil is the only reason.
Others....
- Arms sales
- Influencing Saudi behavior
- Protecting Israel
- Animosity towards Iran.