Israeli Duty to Warn? What unmitigated gall (chutzpah)

[PureX]

So why are the Palestinians complaining?

Which Palastinians are complaining? Which are Hamas? You make no distinctions. But most Palestinians, like humans everywhere, just want to be able to live in relative peace and prosperity. But the Israilis keep taking more and more and more land, and killing more and more of their people. And so they become more and more enraged and radicalized. Every time the Israelis kill some Palestinian son or daughter of wife or husband or brother or sister, the people that loved them become radicalized enemies of Israel. Of course. How would you respond? And yet the Israelis just keep robbing and killing them, decade after decade. Creating their own enemy army. For those who have already been brutalized, and then radicalized, and support or join Hamas, the war is already on. They see the rest of the Palestinian people as needing to be radicalized, too, so they will fight before they are robbed and exterminated completely. And the history of Israel's behavior would certainly bear that out.

Every non-Hamas Palestinian that the Israelis are now killing in droves will radicalize the people left alive that loved them. And Hamas knows it. This will increase their size and support exponentially. And give them standing among the other Arab nations that hate Israel. IT'S WHY THEY DID THIS. Hamas sees itself as being already at war.

Also, keep in mind that every Israeli over the age of 17 is a soldier in the Israeli army. So in the minds of those Hamas attackers, they were not killing "innocent kids at a concert". They were killing the soldiers that have been killing them.

 

[Revoltingest]

The business of war. The companies make money at our tax expense and the folk of israel/palestine have lost their minds to hatred willing to use the weapons to kill each other.

What is sick is to realize and find out what the root problem is.

I have been watching it for too long.

Companies making money selling materiel to government
isn't the problem here. It's what government uses it for.
And voters overwhelmingly approve of Israel's oppression
of Palestinians, judging by whom they elect.

If our socialist friends had their way, it would be government
making the bullets, bombs, missiles, etc....not privately owned
companies. The policies to use them would be the same.

 

[Shaul]

That's not the point. I was talking about today's Israel and you brought up the historical house of Israel, which is not the same thing, hence the conflation.

There is no conflation except in your own mind. I brought up that the Jewish claims to the land are based on history. That is quite correct. The ancient Kingdom of Israel is just one part of that history. It also includes the historical record of there being Jews in that land continuously for over 3,000 years.

 

[Bthoth]

They knew exactly what would happen. Just as they know that the ultra-violent Israeli response will bring them far more followers and supporters. Every time the Israelis kill a Palastinian non-combatant, which they do all the time, and are doing now in great numbers, they create several hardened militant Hamas supporters, ready, now, to die in their quest for retribution.

Very sad reality. That snow ball is the actual problem and must end because it will eventually lead to far worse.

 

[Bthoth]

There is no conflation except in your own mind. I brought up that the Jewish claims to the land are based on history. That is quite correct.

Agreed

The ancient Kingdom of Israel is just one part of that history.

A very small part of history

It also includes the historical record of there being Jews in that land continuously for over 3,000 years.

Same as egyptians thru to arabs (nomads). None of that gives israelis or other(s) the right to impose oppression nor terrorism

 

[Shaul]

Same as egyptians thru to arabs (nomads). None of that gives israelis or other(s) the right to impose oppression nor terrorism

So the Israeli shouldn't do things such as beheading babies. Oh, wait, the Israelis haven't been doing that. It was Hamas that was doing that.

 

[PureX]

Very sad reality. That snow ball is the actual problem and must end because it will eventually lead to far worse.

The only way it ends is by NOT imposing massive bloody retribution, and instead calling the 'enemy' to the table to discuss a peaceful solution. I mean really discuss it, not just reiterate what you won't give up. It was a lesson hard learned by the British with the Irish. But they did eventually learn it, and it worked. The Israelis, however just can't seem to let go of the old "eye for an eye" mentality. They see themselves as victims even when they are the victimizer. And the U.S. government (owned by the rich military industrialists) supports this attitude at every turn. Mostly because we haven't learned the lesson yet, either, and there's big money to be made in helping people kill each other. We always opt for "proportional retaliation". Which simply prolongs the altercation indefinitely.

 

[Colt]

IMOP

 

[PureX]

It's sad that so many people fall for these silly overly simplistic memes.

 

[Bthoth]

So the Israeli shouldn't do things such as beheading babies. Oh, wait, the Israelis haven't been doing that. It was Hamas that was doing that.

What a crazy reply.

 

[Ebionite]

There is no conflation except in your own mind.

Denial won't work. I started by posting about today's Israel, which is a Zionist state, and then you referred to the historical Jewish nation, which is not the same thing, hence the conflation.

E #123: The difference is that today's Israel originated as a political state, not as a country.

S #143: That isn't true. And even if it were it would not be unique.

E #144: It's true because of the Balfour Declaration

S #145: The Jewish nation was not created by the Balfour Declaration

E #146: You're conflating the historical house of Judah with the Herzl's Jewish state.

Herzl's Zionist state was founded on terrorism, for example the bombing of the King David hotel, which was carried out by Begin's Irgun. In 1973 the modern Likud party formed from a coalition which included Irgun. The historical use of force by Israel against other nations is associated with the symbol of the lion:

Moreover take thou up a lamentation for the princes of Israel,
And say, What [is] thy mother? A lioness: she lay down among lions, she nourished her whelps among young lions.
And she brought up one of her whelps: it became a young lion, and it learned to catch the prey; it devoured men.
The nations also heard of him; he was taken in their pit, and they brought him with chains unto the land of Egypt.
Ezekiel 19:1-4

 

[Bthoth]

Denial won't work. I started by posting about today's Israel, which is a Zionist state, and then you referred to the historical Jewish nation, which is not the same thing, hence the conflation.

Exactly.

The jew is far better than what israel is doing even if many Jews have been mislead and caught within the mess.

I am happy to see that many Jews are now heading for US.

Herzl's Zionist state was founded on terrorism, for example the bombing of the King David hotel, which was carried out by Begin
's Irgun. In 1973 the modern Likud party formed from a coalition which included Irgun. The historical use of force by Israel against other nations is associated with the symbol of the lion:

Solid. Sad part is many of the old terrorist became IDF.

Moreover take thou up a lamentation for the princes of Israel,
And say, What [is] thy mother? A lioness: she lay down among lions, she nourished her whelps among young lions.
And she brought up one of her whelps: it became a young lion, and it learned to catch the prey; it devoured men.
The nations also heard of him; he was taken in their pit, and they brought him with chains unto the land of Egypt.
Ezekiel 19:1-4

If you really want a sad vision as recorded as prophecy, read Ezek 22. It's scary but the rabbid tried to explain it as having already occurred in 70AD. but read it through to identify the application of NOW.

then see Dan 7:8 as I say Hello.

 

[Ebionite]

So the Israeli shouldn't do things such as beheading babies. Oh, wait, the Israelis haven't been doing that. It was Hamas that was doing that.

It's now looks like it was a lie like the lie about Iraqi soldiers taking babies out of incubators and leaving them to die.

The reporter who announced the beheadings later said that the story came from Israeli soldiers, and the soldiers would not confirm her story.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Which Palastinians are complaining? Which are Hamas? You make no distinctions.

All the ones on TV I've come across. Who knows if they are Hamas or support them. How could I know.

But most Palestinians, like humans everywhere, just want to be able to live in relative peace and prosperity. But the Israilis keep taking more and more and more land, and killing more and more of their people. And so they become more and more enraged and radicalized.

Why? Because they can't be trusted and/or threaten and/or target Israelis.

Every time the Israelis kill some Palestinian son or daughter of wife or husband or brother or sister, the people that loved them become radicalized enemies of Israel. Of course. How would you respond?

They hardly need such it seems, given so many simply hate Israelis for being Jewish. Fortunately I don't have a religion that causes me to hate, target, or fear others.

And yet the Israelis just keep robbing and killing them, decade after decade. Creating their own enemy army. For those who have already been brutalized, and then radicalized, and support or join Hamas, the war is already on. They see the rest of the Palestinian people as needing to be radicalized, too, so they will fight before they are robbed and exterminated completely. And the history of Israel's behavior would certainly bear that out.

See above. Threats will make one want distance from such threats.

Every non-Hamas Palestinian that the Israelis are now killing in droves will radicalize the people left alive that loved them. And Hamas knows it. This will increase their size and support exponentially. And give them standing among the other Arab nations that hate Israel. IT'S WHY THEY DID THIS. Hamas sees itself as being already at war.

So what. There are enough Muslims already that hate Jews, and or Christians, and willing to target them. As to the bold, this could be why they did this - with some suggesting that Israel is falling into some trap - but if push comes to shove, which side is going to win? Iraq and Iran are not big enough, nor the Gulf States, if they became involved.

Also, keep in mind that every Israeli over the age of 17 is a soldier in the Israeli army. So in the minds of those Hamas attackers, they were not killing "innocent kids at a concert". They were killing the soldiers that have been killing them.

Really? They train them young then if eight-year-olds are in the Israeli army - one child shown as killed. Let's face it, Hamas isn't a terrorist group, they are religious extremist thugs.

 

[Ebionite]

If you really want a sad vision as recorded as prophecy, read Ezek 22. It's scary but the rabbid tried to explain it as having already occurred in 70AD. but read it through to identify the application of NOW.

Ezekiel 22 relates to Hosea 6, which draws from the symbol of the lion in Hosea 5. Hosea 6 is referred to twice by the gospels.

[There is] a conspiracy of her prophets in the midst thereof, like a roaring lion ravening the prey; they have devoured souls; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof.
Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed [difference] between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.
Ezekiel 22:25-26

And as troops of robbers wait for a man, [so] the company of priests murder in the way by consent: for they commit lewdness.
I have seen an horrible thing in the house of Israel: there [is] the whoredom of Ephraim, Israel is defiled.
Hosea 6:9-10

For I [will be] unto Ephraim as a lion, and as a young lion to the house of Judah: I, [even] I, will tear and go away; I will take away, and none shall rescue [him].
Hosea 5:14

then see Dan 7:8 as I say Hello.

The lion is the the first beast of Daniel 7. The lion is the primary animal of English heraldry, and the eagle represents national animal of the U.S., the bald eagle. The wings being plucked off represents the U.S. war of independence.

The first [was] like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.
Daniel 7:4

 

[Shaul]

Denial won't work. I started by posting about today's Israel, which is a Zionist state, and then you referred to the historical Jewish nation, which is not the same thing, hence the conflation.

E #123: The difference is that today's Israel originated as a political state, not as a country.

S #143: That isn't true. And even if it were it would not be unique.

E #144: It's true because of the Balfour Declaration

S #145: The Jewish nation was not created by the Balfour Declaration

E #146: You're conflating the historical house of Judah with the Herzl's Jewish state.

Herzl's Zionist state was founded on terrorism, for example the bombing of the King David hotel, which was carried out by Begin's Irgun. In 1973 the modern Likud party formed from a coalition which included Irgun. The historical use of force by Israel against other nations is associated with the symbol of the lion:

Moreover take thou up a lamentation for the princes of Israel,
And say, What [is] thy mother? A lioness: she lay down among lions, she nourished her whelps among young lions.
And she brought up one of her whelps: it became a young lion, and it learned to catch the prey; it devoured men.
The nations also heard of him; he was taken in their pit, and they brought him with chains unto the land of Egypt.
Ezekiel 19:1-4

Herzl died in 1904. Calling the modern State of Israel shows conflation on your part. The modern State of Israel is multicultural. Calling it a Zionist state is simplistic, jingoistic and (again) another conflation by you.

As I have explained multiple times I have never said that the basis for the modern State of Israel comes from the entire historical record and not upon the ancient Kingdom of Israel. Yet you have repeatedly tried to put words in my mouth that I have said that. You continue to argue a straw man. You are the one conflating things.

 

[Ebionite]

Herzl died in 1904. Calling the modern State of Israel shows conflation on your part.

Can you describe this alleged conflation?

 

[PureX]

"But most Palestinians, like humans everywhere, just want to be able to live in relative peace and prosperity. But the Israilis keep taking more and more and more land, and killing more and more of their people. And so they become more and more enraged and radicalized."

Why? Because they can't be trusted and/or threaten and/or target Israelis.

Huh? This makes no sense.

They hardly need such it seems, given so many simply hate Israelis for being Jewish.

Do they hate them for being Jewish? Or for killing their loved ones and stealing their land? Seems to me that of the two motives, the second is the far more likely to inspire hatred.

Fortunately I don't have a religion that causes me to hate, target, or fear others.

No one does. Religions are used to justify acting on the hate that people already feel. They don't generate it.

There are enough Muslims already that hate Jews, and or Christians, and willing to target them. As to the bold, this could be why they did this - with some suggesting that Israel is falling into some trap - but if push comes to shove, which side is going to win? Iraq and Iran are not big enough, nor the Gulf States, if they became involved.

No one is going to "win". No one ever wins this kind of thing. You can't kill the enemy because enery time you kill one of them, you create two more.

Really? They train them young then if eight-year-olds are in the Israeli army - one child shown as killed. Let's face it, Hamas isn't a terrorist group, they are religious extremist thugs.

Religin is just their excuse, Just as it's yours.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

So in the minds of those Hamas attackers,

Who the hell really knows what was running through the minds of the hamas attackers - I don't, and I don't think that we in West generally know either. But it might be a crucial thing for us to understand. I think the action they undertook, was not the action of an army or militia. It was more like the action of a large collection of unrestrained homicidal people. That's not an army, but I have no idea what that really is. Laughing and snickering as they acted, apparently without shame, or perceivable self-restraint. Perhaps immune to shame, perhaps immune to ptsd - reveling in doing what other armies would see as being misdeeds? What is that?

 

[Mock Turtle]

"But most Palestinians, like humans everywhere, just want to be able to live in relative peace and prosperity. But the Israilis keep taking more and more and more land, and killing more and more of their people. And so they become more and more enraged and radicalized."

Huh? This makes no sense.

Do they hate them for being Jewish? Or for killing their loved ones and stealing their land? Seems to me that of the two motives, the second is the far more likely to inspire hatred.

No one does. Religions are used to justify acting on the hate that people already feel. They don't generate it.

No one is going to "win". No one ever wins this kind of thing. You can't kill the enemy because enery time you kill one of them, you create two more.

Religin is just their excuse, Just as it's yours.

Well plenty are looking in the wrong direction if religion is playing no role in this - given that Hamas apparently have political and religious leaders planning their actions. Together with the facts of the origins of so many religions being in relative close proximity, and hence the land being valued by any particular religion, there is enmity between the religions and often coming from the dogma of the religious authorities. No one would say this is purely religious, but without religions being an important component we wouldn't have so much hatred, anger, and conflict.