Israeli Duty to Warn? What unmitigated gall (chutzpah)

[metis]

And almost all are still Jewish, and still Israeli, and still crying out for "an eye for an eye". As their Talmud tells teaches.

Actually, it's from the Torah, but the Talmud adds qualifications and limitations.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

In fact, Hamas is inextricably entwined with both. But that's a good trick, there, making them appear as if they're some violent rogue entity having no connection to the abuse of the Palestinian people by Israeli Jews or the abuse of many Muslim nations by the oil-hungry (mostly Christian) west.

"Good trick"? "Making them appear"? That is as stupid as it is slanderous. My long-standing position on the occupation should be clear to anyone not drunk on their own vitriol.

I'm done with you.

 

[Sargonski]

So how do you weigh that against the fact that Palestinians voted in leaders whose stated charter is the total destruction of Israel?

It seems to me that that changes the conversation about what ought to constitute war crimes - at least to some degree?

Well you seemed wrong .. as it does not change the conversation in any way shape or form ... does not change the definition of a war crime. That the Occupied hates the Occupier does not change fact that that Israel has committed countless war crimes and crimes against humanity .. prior to October 7.

That the Zionist charter is the removal of all the "Animals" from the Promised land .. the "Cleansing of the Promised Land" changes the conversation how ? Does this make the extermination of thousands of Children, so many Biden says he doesn't believe it, any less a war crime ?

 

[Revoltingest]

"Good trick"? "Making them appear"? That is as stupid as it is slanderous. My long-standing position on the occupation should be clear to anyone not drunk on their own vitriol.

I'm done with you.

I find it useful to regularly state long held positions.
It helps others remember. Criminy, not too long ago
I had to correct one poster that I am not a creationist.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Hamas assumes, correctly, that the U.S. will put their arm on Israel to stop any significant retaliation.

Yet here we are, a year later.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yet here we are, a year later.

And that restraining arm has yet to appear.
First Israel had to exterminate Hamas.
Now they're exterminating Hezbollah.
Next Houthis & Iran?

 

[metis]

Yet here we are, a year later.

And yet a rocket(s) were fired out of Gaza by Hamas towards Tel Aviv last week, so they obviously have no intention to surrender.

 

[muhammad_isa]

And yet a rocket(s) were fired out of Gaza by Hamas towards Tel Aviv last week, so they obviously have no intention to surrender.

Umm .. remember..

On 31 July 2024, Ismail Haniyeh, the political leader of Hamas, was assassinated along with his personal bodyguard in the Iranian capital Tehran by an apparent Israeli attack.

I believe he was responsible for negotiations .. who would that be now, then?
The truth is, that Netanyahu and co. are not interested in peace .. they see that they
have the backing of the US administration to carry on with the war .. escalate the war.

Netantyahu has already reported to have said that Iran is going to get a bloody nose.

..so what is there to surrender from? You think that Israel is going to stop harassing Palestinians?
Of course not.

Hezbollah said the rockets over the northern border would stop, if the genocide in Gaza would stop.
..and that didn't happen.

The world population aren't fools. The longer the Israeli offensive goes on, the more there is for the
world to remember.

You can't subjugate the opinion of a significant proportion of the world through military might.
You can try .. but it spells eventual failure, and consequences.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Hamas, unprovoked and without warning, attacked Israel on Saturday, October 7. The Israelis, as was inevitable, fought back, hopefully hard. The New York Times' print edition contained an article "Gazans With Nowhere to Hide Issue a Plea: At Least Warn Us." The Times' electronic edition (link, not paywalled) modified the headline to "Nowhere to Hide in Gaza as Israeli Onslaught Continues." Either way, the article and contents constitute unmitigated gall, or, as the Yiddish expression goes, chutzpah. Excerpts:

The UN High Commissioner for human rights continues this thoroughly disingenuous theme:

Both the "Gazans" and Mr. Türk miss the delicious irony; Hamas gave no "warning" to the attendees at a rock concert that it killed, tortured and/or kidnapped. Ditto the Israeli homes invaded. Presumably, Israel is to meekly accept these attacks. The Gazans, somehow, are entitled to warnings so they can fight another day. The Israeli rock concert attendees, and other innocents, should just die.

After all, they are only the Joooooos, and should follow the pattern they adopted during the Shoah, with 6,000,000 going down with barely a whimper.

Sounds like you're equating Hamas with the people of Gaza.

FYI: while Hamas didn't warn Israel of the impending attack, Israeli intelligence warned Netanyahu 4 separate times about an impending attack before Oct. 7 happened.

IDF says Netanyahu was warned 4 times in 2023 about how enemies saw internal discord

PM denies military gave indication that Hamas could attack amid judicial overhaul upheaval, says to the contrary, it claimed terror group had no interest in attacking from Gaza

www.timesofisrael.com

Saudi Arabia and Egypt also warned Israel:

A statement on Saturday from Saudi Foreign Ministry emphasized the plight of the Palestinians, saying the kingdom had warned repeatedly “of the dangers of the explosion of the situation as a result of the continued occupation, the deprivation of the Palestinian people and their legitimate rights and the repetition of systemic provocations against its sanctities.”

The war could upend Biden’s diplomacy on Saudi-Israel normalization. (Published 2023)

Many Sau

www.nytimes.com

Egyptian intelligence had warned Israel of 'something big' from Gaza but Israeli officials focused on the West Bank, The Associated Press reported on Monday. An Egyptian intelligence official said Egypt had spoken repeatedly with the Israelis about "something big" but Israeli officials played down the threat from Gaza. "We have warned them an explosion of the situation is coming, and very soon, and it would be big. But they underestimated such warnings,” the official was quoted as saying by the AP.

Egyptian intelligence had warned Israel of 'something big' from Gaza: Report

An Egyptian intelligence official said Egypt had spoken repeatedly with the Israelis about "something big" but Israeli officials played down the threat from Gaza.

www.businesstoday.in

 

[Revoltingest]

Sounds like you're equating Hamas with the people of Gaza.

FYI: while Hamas didn't warn Israel of the impending attack, Israeli intelligence warned Netanyahu 4 separate times about an impending attack before Oct. 7 happened.

IDF says Netanyahu was warned 4 times in 2023 about how enemies saw internal discord

PM denies military gave indication that Hamas could attack amid judicial overhaul upheaval, says to the contrary, it claimed terror group had no interest in attacking from Gaza

www.timesofisrael.com

Saudi Arabia and Egypt also warned Israel:

The war could upend Biden’s diplomacy on Saudi-Israel normalization. (Published 2023)

Many Sau

www.nytimes.com

Egyptian intelligence had warned Israel of 'something big' from Gaza: Report

An Egyptian intelligence official said Egypt had spoken repeatedly with the Israelis about "something big" but Israeli officials played down the threat from Gaza.

www.businesstoday.in

One might conclude that Netanyahu intended that
many Israelis die, so that he could go to war for
political benefit....which he appears to currently enjoy.

 

[jbg]

And that restraining arm has yet to appear.
First Israel had to exterminate Hamas.
Now they're exterminating Hezbollah.
Next Houthis & Iran?

One can only hope.

 

[jbg]

Umm .. remember..

On 31 July 2024, Ismail Haniyeh, the political leader of Hamas, was assassinated along with his personal bodyguard in the Iranian capital Tehran by an apparent Israeli attack.

I believe he was responsible for negotiations .. who would that be now, then?
The truth is, that Netanyahu and co. are not interested in peace .. they see that they
have the backing of the US administration to carry on with the war .. escalate the war.

Is a massacre a starting point for negotiations?

 

[Revoltingest]

One can only hope.

You're hoping for a larger scale war?
Perhaps you're unaware of how much taxpayer money
was spent fighting Iraq over so many years. Iran is
more capable. So USA would spend even more money
& years killing even more people.
Do you think this would go un-noticed by other
Muslim countries, & by major players (Russia, China)
sensing opportunity to weaken USA, & gain power
in the region.
Hoping for war is stupid, inhumane, & just plain wrong.

 

[metis]

Umm .. remember..

On 31 July 2024, Ismail Haniyeh, the political leader of Hamas, was assassinated along with his personal bodyguard in the Iranian capital Tehran by an apparent Israeli attack.

Um, remember that Hamas attacked unarmed civilians on 10-7, and you actually think that's justified. Sick.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Is a massacre a starting point for negotiations?

There is no "starting point" as far as Netanyahu & co. is concerned.

They have made that very clear .. before as well as after Oct 7.
Naturally, Netanyahu & co. want to paint a picture of "animals attacking civilians" ,
as that justifies his genocide .. or so he thinks.

Exaggeration and disinformation is all part of his war .. his agenda for the region.

 

[icehorse]

If it comes to that I hope that they do. As it is the number of Hamas dead and wounded probably already greatly outnumber the Israeli dead and wounded. I do not mind punishing Hamas, but I do not want to see innocent civilians harmed. Restraint must be used.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Um, remember that Hamas attacked unarmed civilians on 10-7..

How could I forget! .. what were Netanyahu and co. thinking?
Where were the IDF in their watchtowers?
Why didn't they heed the multiple warnings from various nations and their own security forces?

I tell you what is sick .. trying to justify killing masses of people in bombing raids and destroying the vast majority of buildings and infrastructure, because they apparently didn't secure their 'Gaza prison' properly!

It's all too "convenient", in my view.

 

[icehorse]

They were fooled. We elected Trump. He is not much better. People make mistakes. And now they have suffered for it. But the people to punish are those that misled them and broke international law. Imprison them. Don't harm civilians. And especially not children who had nothing to do with the decision making process.

No side is innocent here. I do not want Israel to become the monster that Hamas currently is.

So how do you totally eradicate Hamas? I think an international force must step in and take over for Israel. This international force can take it's time, minimize "civilian" casualties, be under international scrutiny, all the good things, but it must completely remove Hamas from Gaza. Once that's done, it must stay in Gaza and make sure no terrorist organizations return.

 

[Revoltingest]

Um, remember that Hamas attacked unarmed civilians on 10-7, and you actually think that's justified. Sick.

Netanyahu thought it was justified.
He was warned multiple times.
He let it happen.

 

[Debater Slayer]

This international force can take it's time, minimize "civilian" casualties, [...]

Why is "civilian" in quotes?