Israel's academic history from the beginning.

[shunyadragon]

A number of threads have dealt with aspects of the Israel's history from the religious, archaeological and historical perspective. Even though this thread will primarily deal with the archaeological and historical history of Israel it will deal with the history of Israel present in the Bible.

The primary outline source will be History of ancient Israel and Judah - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia which is well documented detailed reference with good references cited troughout. The following is the introduction.

Israel and Judah were Iron Age kingdoms of the old Near East. The area of time covered in this page is from the first mention of the name Israel in the archaeological record (1200 BCE) to the end of a independent Judean kingdom near the time of Jesus Christ.

The two kingdoms arose on the most eastern coast of the Mediterranean, the most western part of the Fertile Crescent, between the old empires of Egypt to the south, Assyria, Babylonia, later Persia to the north and east, Greece and later Rome across the sea to the west. The area is small, maybe only 100 miles north to south and 40 or 50 miles east to west.

Israel and Judah were from the Canaanite culture of the late Bronze Age, and were based on villages that formed and grew in the southern Levant highlands (today for the region between the coastal plain and the Jordan Valley) between c. 1200-1000 BCE. Israel became an important local power in the 9th and 8th centuries BCE before falling to the Assyrians. The southern kingdom, Judah, became rich inside the greater empires of the region before a revolt against Babylon led to it being destroyed early in the 6th century.

Judean exiles returned from Babylon early in the following Persian period, starting a Judahite presence in the province of Yehud, as Judah was now called. Yehud was absorbed into the subsequent Greek-ruled kingdoms which followed the conquests of Alexander the Great. In the 2nd century BC, the Jews went up against Greek rule and created the Hasmonean kingdom, which became first a Roman dependency and soon went under the rule of the Roman Empire.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

*MOD POST* Moved to Historical Debates *MOD POST*

 

[shunyadragon]

The entire history of the Hebrew tribes is dominated by the fact that the region of the Hebrew tribes was surrounded by larger more powerful kingdoms.

One clarification is the main location of the early Hebrew tribes (1200-1000 BCE) is the Levant Hills of Judah and later the Jordan Valley not the coastal region. The Coastal region. In the Collapse of the Late Bronze Age was dominated by the Sea People (?) and Philistines that invaded with the Deterioration of the Phoenician/Canaanite. Hittite, and Egyptian city states. The Egyptian Kingdom survived in Egypt. I see a lot of maps showing the Hebrew Kingdoms extending to the coast of the Mediterranean,

History of the ancient Levant - Wikipedia​

en.wikipedia.org

Late Bronze Age collapse​

During the 12th century BC, between c. 1200 and 1150, all of these powers suddenly collapsed. Centralized state systems collapsed, and the region was hit by famine. Chaos ensued throughout the region, and many urban centers were burnt to the ground by famine-struck natives[59] and an assortment of raiders known as the Sea Peoples, who eventually settled in the Levant. The Sea Peoples' origins are ambiguous and many theories have proposed them to be Trojans, Sardinians, Achaeans, Sicilians or Lycians.[60][61][62][63]

Urban centers which survived Hittite and Egyptian expansions in 1600 BC, including Alalakh, Ugarit, Megiddo and Kadesh, were razed to the ground and were never rebuilt. The Hittite empire was destroyed, and its capital Tarḫuntašša was razed to the ground. Egypt repelled its attackers with only a major effort, and over the next century shrank to its territorial core, its central authority permanently weakened.

The primary outline introduction source will be History of ancient Israel and Judah - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia which is well documented detailed reference with good references cited trough out. The following is the introduction.

Israel and Judah were Iron Age kingdoms of the old Near East. The area of time covered in this page is from the first mention of the name Israel in the archaeological record (1200 BCE) to the end of a independent Judean kingdom near the time of Jesus Christ.

The two kingdoms arose on the most eastern coast of the Mediterranean, the most western part of the Fertile Crescent, between the old empires of Egypt to the south, Assyria, Babylonia, later Persia to the north and east, Greece and later Rome across the sea to the west. The area is small, maybe only 100 miles north to south and 40 or 50 miles east to west.

Israel and Judah were from the Canaanite culture of the late Bronze Age, and were based on villages that formed and grew in the southern Levant highlands (today for the region between the coastal plain and the Jordan Valley) between c. 1200-1000 BCE. Israel became an important local power in the 9th and 8th centuries BCE before falling to the Assyrians. The southern kingdom, Judah, became rich inside the greater empires of the region before a revolt against Babylon led to it being destroyed early in the 6th century.

Judean exiles returned from Babylon early in the following Persian period, starting a Judahite presence in the province of Yehud, as Judah was now called. Yehud was absorbed into the subsequent Greek-ruled kingdoms which followed the conquests of Alexander the Great. In the 2nd century BC, the Jews went up against Greek rule and created the Hasmonean kingdom, which became first a Roman dependency and soon went under the rule of the Roman Empire.

The next posts I will address the history of Hebrew tribes before 1200 BCE and begin the discussion of the historical time that the Biblical Exodus is described to take place. More related to the subject of the thread discarding the mythology of chariot wheels in the Red Sea.

 

[oldbadger]

The entire history of the Hebrew tribes is dominated by the fact that the region of the Hebrew tribes was surrounded by larger more powerful kingdoms.

One clarification is the main location of the early Hebrew tribes (1200-1000 BCE) is the Levant Hills of Judah and later the Jordan Valley not the coastal region. The Coastal region. In the Collapse of the Late Bronze Age was dominated by the Sea People (?) and Philistines that invaded with the Deterioration of the Phoenician/Canaanite. Hittite, and Egyptian city states. The Egyptian Kingdom survived in Egypt. I see a lot of maps showing the Hebrew Kingdoms extending to the coast of the Mediterranean,

History of the ancient Levant - Wikipedia​

en.wikipedia.org

Late Bronze Age collapse​

During the 12th century BC, between c. 1200 and 1150, all of these powers suddenly collapsed. Centralized state systems collapsed, and the region was hit by famine. Chaos ensued throughout the region, and many urban centers were burnt to the ground by famine-struck natives[59] and an assortment of raiders known as the Sea Peoples, who eventually settled in the Levant. The Sea Peoples' origins are ambiguous and many theories have proposed them to be Trojans, Sardinians, Achaeans, Sicilians or Lycians.[60][61][62][63]

Urban centers which survived Hittite and Egyptian expansions in 1600 BC, including Alalakh, Ugarit, Megiddo and Kadesh, were razed to the ground and were never rebuilt. The Hittite empire was destroyed, and its capital Tarḫuntašša was razed to the ground. Egypt repelled its attackers with only a major effort, and over the next century shrank to its territorial core, its central authority permanently weakened.

The primary outline introduction source will be History of ancient Israel and Judah - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia which is well documented detailed reference with good references cited trough out. The following is the introduction.

Israel and Judah were Iron Age kingdoms of the old Near East. The area of time covered in this page is from the first mention of the name Israel in the archaeological record (1200 BCE) to the end of a independent Judean kingdom near the time of Jesus Christ.

The two kingdoms arose on the most eastern coast of the Mediterranean, the most western part of the Fertile Crescent, between the old empires of Egypt to the south, Assyria, Babylonia, later Persia to the north and east, Greece and later Rome across the sea to the west. The area is small, maybe only 100 miles north to south and 40 or 50 miles east to west.

Israel and Judah were from the Canaanite culture of the late Bronze Age, and were based on villages that formed and grew in the southern Levant highlands (today for the region between the coastal plain and the Jordan Valley) between c. 1200-1000 BCE. Israel became an important local power in the 9th and 8th centuries BCE before falling to the Assyrians. The southern kingdom, Judah, became rich inside the greater empires of the region before a revolt against Babylon led to it being destroyed early in the 6th century.

Judean exiles returned from Babylon early in the following Persian period, starting a Judahite presence in the province of Yehud, as Judah was now called. Yehud was absorbed into the subsequent Greek-ruled kingdoms which followed the conquests of Alexander the Great. In the 2nd century BC, the Jews went up against Greek rule and created the Hasmonean kingdom, which became first a Roman dependency and soon went under the rule of the Roman Empire.

The next posts I will address the history of Hebrew tribes before 1200 BCE and begin the discussion of the historical time that the Biblical Exodus is described to take place. More related to the subject of the thread discarding the mythology of chariot wheels in the Red Sea.

I notice that the Wiki article contains maps.
I'll spend time with these........ and the dates.
Lots of homework!

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

The entire history of the Hebrew tribes is dominated by the fact that the region of the Hebrew tribes was surrounded by larger more powerful kingdoms.

One clarification is the main location of the early Hebrew tribes (1200-1000 BCE) is the Levant Hills of Judah and later the Jordan Valley not the coastal region. The Coastal region. In the Collapse of the Late Bronze Age was dominated by the Sea People (?) and Philistines that invaded with the Deterioration of the Phoenician/Canaanite. Hittite, and Egyptian city states. The Egyptian Kingdom survived in Egypt. I see a lot of maps showing the Hebrew Kingdoms extending to the coast of the Mediterranean,

History of the ancient Levant - Wikipedia​

en.wikipedia.org

Late Bronze Age collapse​

During the 12th century BC, between c. 1200 and 1150, all of these powers suddenly collapsed. Centralized state systems collapsed, and the region was hit by famine. Chaos ensued throughout the region, and many urban centers were burnt to the ground by famine-struck natives[59] and an assortment of raiders known as the Sea Peoples, who eventually settled in the Levant. The Sea Peoples' origins are ambiguous and many theories have proposed them to be Trojans, Sardinians, Achaeans, Sicilians or Lycians.[60][61][62][63]

Urban centers which survived Hittite and Egyptian expansions in 1600 BC, including Alalakh, Ugarit, Megiddo and Kadesh, were razed to the ground and were never rebuilt. The Hittite empire was destroyed, and its capital Tarḫuntašša was razed to the ground. Egypt repelled its attackers with only a major effort, and over the next century shrank to its territorial core, its central authority permanently weakened.

The primary outline introduction source will be History of ancient Israel and Judah - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia which is well documented detailed reference with good references cited trough out. The following is the introduction.

Israel and Judah were Iron Age kingdoms of the old Near East. The area of time covered in this page is from the first mention of the name Israel in the archaeological record (1200 BCE) to the end of a independent Judean kingdom near the time of Jesus Christ.

The two kingdoms arose on the most eastern coast of the Mediterranean, the most western part of the Fertile Crescent, between the old empires of Egypt to the south, Assyria, Babylonia, later Persia to the north and east, Greece and later Rome across the sea to the west. The area is small, maybe only 100 miles north to south and 40 or 50 miles east to west.

Israel and Judah were from the Canaanite culture of the late Bronze Age, and were based on villages that formed and grew in the southern Levant highlands (today for the region between the coastal plain and the Jordan Valley) between c. 1200-1000 BCE. Israel became an important local power in the 9th and 8th centuries BCE before falling to the Assyrians. The southern kingdom, Judah, became rich inside the greater empires of the region before a revolt against Babylon led to it being destroyed early in the 6th century.

Judean exiles returned from Babylon early in the following Persian period, starting a Judahite presence in the province of Yehud, as Judah was now called. Yehud was absorbed into the subsequent Greek-ruled kingdoms which followed the conquests of Alexander the Great. In the 2nd century BC, the Jews went up against Greek rule and created the Hasmonean kingdom, which became first a Roman dependency and soon went under the rule of the Roman Empire.

The next posts I will address the history of Hebrew tribes before 1200 BCE and begin the discussion of the historical time that the Biblical Exodus is described to take place. More related to the subject of the thread discarding the mythology of chariot wheels in the Red Sea.

My understanding is that the area of Israel was under the control of the Egyptians from about 1500 to 1200 BCE. When the Hebrews would have entered Canaan, as this area is labeled, they would have faced the Egyptian rulers. I would like to know what you think of the Hebrews escaping from Egypt, only to land in Canaan under Egyptian control.

 

[oldbadger]

@shunyadragon
I've been reading about the early Israelites, Samaritans and Jews and what a proliferation of opinions there is, about timelines, geographies and human movements......
I'm going to make a 'timeline' list in to which I can insert the 'general' ideas that seem to exist between most historian's opinions and findings. This might make it more easy for me to grasp some kind of 'average' perception at this time and present state of historical position.
My first surprise is to see that Deuteronomy is dated earlier than Leviticus, and I'll be reading that book alone and in its own 'write' to discover what differences it makes as a 'second reading'.....possibly for the laws made only in Exodus?
I'm most glad that you thought to produce this thread one year ago, and I'm slightly surprised that it hasn't attracted more attention.

 

[shunyadragon]

My understanding is that the area of Israel was under the control of the Egyptians from about 1500 to 1200 BCE. When the Hebrews would have entered Canaan, as this area is labeled, they would have faced the Egyptian rulers. I would like to know what you think of the Hebrews escaping from Egypt, only to land in Canaan under Egyptian control.

First, the Hebrews were always in Canaan as a Canaanite tribe or tribes. Some Canaanites migrated to Egypt as the Hyksos in the delta region and were later defeated by the Egyptians and driven out. Second, yes the Egyptians occupied and colonized much of Canaan, but did not have complete control, occupied mostly the cities and made small colonized Canaanite city states around commercial cities like Jerusalem. The region of the Levant was also contested by the Hittites during this period. They did not occupy the rural regions like the Hills of Judah were the Hebrew tribes lived.

The rise of the Hebrews began in the Late Bronze Age Collapse with the defeat of the Hittites and Egyptians.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

First, the Hebrews were always in Canaan as a Canaanite tribe or tribes. Some Canaanites migrated to Egypt as the Hyksos in the delta region and were later defeated by the Egyptians and driven out. Second, yes the Egyptians occupied and colonized much of Canaan, but did not have complete control, occupied mostly the cities and made small colonized Canaanite city states around commercial cities like Jerusalem. The region of the Levant was also contested by the Hittites during this period. They did not occupy the rural regions like the Hills of Judah were the Hebrew tribes lived.

The rise of the Hebrews began in the Late Bronze Age Collapse with the defeat of the Hittites and Egyptians.

I am aware of the theory that the Israelites were always in Canaan, but I do not find it convincing because the majesty of the Exodus does not make sense from Canaan. I think there is much more reason to believe that Exodus took place from the Indus Valley. The Hyksos as Israelites, also did not work because Hyksos ruled Egypt for only 13 years and they left in defeat. In contrast, the Israelites lived in Mitsrayim for 200 to 400 years and left by escape. I think this whole idea needs to be redone.
On the rest of your thread. I agree that the Egyptians controlled only the cities, and the rise of the Hebrews began after the Egyptians collapsed.

 

[shunyadragon]

I am aware of the theory that the Israelites were always in Canaan, but I do not find it convincing because the majesty of the Exodus does not make sense from Canaan. I think there is much more reason to believe that Exodus took place from the Indus Valley. The Hyksos as Israelites, also did not work because Hyksos ruled Egypt for only 13 years and they left in defeat. In contrast, the Israelites lived in Mitsrayim for 200 to 400 years and left by escape. I think this whole idea needs to be redone.
On the rest of your thread. I agree that the Egyptians controlled only the cities, and the rise of the Hebrews began after the Egyptians collapsed.

I realize that you have a theory that the Hebrews came from the Indus Valley, and that makes sense to you,, but I and academic sources go by the archeological, historical and genetic evidence that overwhelmingly documents the origin of the Hebrews as the Levant region.. The genetic evidence of the history of the Hebrews is irrefutable evidence for the origin of the Hebrews

Your view is only supported by at best a personal vague a anecdotal argument without a basis in fact. What "makes sense to you" does not carry any academic weight in this dialogue, I have responded in the past point b point with archeological, historical, and scientific evidence to refute your argument.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The primary outline source will be History of ancient Israel and Judah - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ...

Of course it will.

May I ask what degree dignifies your persistent efforts at unsolicited pedantry?

Also, and I believe I might have (unsuccessfully) requested this in the past, could you offer two to three books (by which I mean actual books that you've actually read) that you consider definitive?

 

[shunyadragon]

Of course it will.

May I ask what degree dignifies your persistent efforts at unsolicited pedantry?

Also, and I believe I might have (unsuccessfully) requested this in the past, could you offer two to three books (by which I mean actual books that you've actually read) that you consider definitive?

I ignore such aggressive biased attack concerning my posts.

 

[shunyadragon]

Of course it will.

May I ask what degree dignifies your persistent efforts at unsolicited pedantry?

Also, and I believe I might have (unsuccessfully) requested this in the past, could you offer two to three books (by which I mean actual books that you've actually read) that you consider definitive?

I ignore such aggressive biased attack concerning my posts.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I ignore such aggressive biased attack concerning my posts.

An what bias might that be?

Yet again, could you offer two to three books (by which I mean actual books that you've actually read) that you consider definitive? A simple "no" would suffice; it might even warrant respect if only by virtue of its honesty and brevity.

 

[shunyadragon]

An what bias might that be?

Yet again, could you offer two to three books (by which I mean actual books that you've actually read) that you consider definitive? A simple "no" would suffice; it might even warrant respect if only by virtue of its honesty and brevity.

I ignore such aggressive biased attack concerning my posts.

 

[Revoltingest]

An what bias might that be?

Yet again, could you offer two to three books (by which I mean actual books that you've actually read) that you consider definitive? A simple "no" would suffice; it might even warrant respect if only by virtue of its honesty and brevity.

Some useful advice....
Instead of opening the conversation with derision
& insults, one could start with the offer of books.
That would avoid poisoning the well.

 

[shunyadragon]

Some useful advice....
Instead of opening the conversation with derision
& insults, one could start with the offer of books.
That would avoid poisoning the well.

Well was already poisoned by accusations and insults with no constructive references presented, Post #11

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

one could start with the offer of books.

What a great idea.

 

[shunyadragon]

What a great idea.

Yes, a good idea since you poisoned the well in post #11

 

[shunyadragon]

An what bias might that be?

Yet again, could you offer two to three books (by which I mean actual books that you've actually read) that you consider definitive? A simple "no" would suffice; it might even warrant respect if only by virtue of its honesty and brevity.

Why have you not offered a constructive response? The stench of post #11 remains.

Books do not fit in posts. The Wikipedia reference referred to other references that anyone may read,

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Books do not fit in posts.

And, as far as one can tell from your posts, they do not fit into your study habits. You casually offer definitive claims such as ...

First, the Hebrews were always in Canaan as a Canaanite tribe or tribes.

as if you should be taken as the depository of truth, and despite the fact that their are many sources that would find your claim to be, at the very least, laughably shallow and incomplete.
See, for example, here, here, here and here. so, yes ...

Yet again ...

May I ask what degree dignifies your persistent efforts at unsolicited pedantry?

Also, and I believe I might have (unsuccessfully) requested this in the past, could you offer two to three books (by which I mean actual books that you've actually read) that you consider definitive?