It is uncertain...

[michel]

Michel, trust me, I definitely add threads to other forums, and write certain corporations letters, but religion probably interests me most because it is something, that I believe, that is one of the biggest problems in our world.

Bigger than greed, Terrorism, Ethnic cleansing ?............

 

[Malus 12:9]

Bigger than greed, Terrorism, Ethnic cleansing ?............

Religion can be the cause of all the above MICH.

 

[Merlin]

Religion can be the cause of all the above MICH.

No it can't. But it is a lovely smokescreen for people with political or territorial ambitions to pretend they have a higher calling.

 

[michel]

No it can't. But it is a lovely smokescreen for people with political or territorial ambitions to pretend they have a higher calling.

Unfortunately you are right.

 

[Malus 12:9]

Notice the "can", Merlin, if one uses this "smokescreen" in claim that it is "for their religion", then religion is still responsible.

 

[michel]

Notice the "can", Merlin, if one uses this "smokescreen" in claim that it is "for their religion", then religion is still responsible.

No, the person who pretends to use religion as the motive is responsible, not the religion.

 

[Sunstone]

Religion is a powerful enabler. Historically, it has sometimes enabled great good, and sometimes enabled great evil. It is a myth that religion enables only one or the other. Religion is like fire, it can provide both life giving warmth and also burn you to death, depending on how it is used. Like fire, the responsibility for its use rests on the individual believer. We do not condem fire itself because of the actions of an arsonist. Nor should we condem religion itself for the actions of an evil person who uses it to oppress others.

 

[Malus 12:9]

No, the person who pretends to use religion as the motive is responsible, not the religion.

True, but if there was no religion to begin with, I think it would make things a little different MICH.

 

[Scuba Pete]

but if there was no religion to begin with, I think it would make things a little different

Yeah, they would find another excuse to prey on others. It has nothing to do with religion!

 

[Malus 12:9]

Yeah, they would find another excuse to prey on others. It has nothing to do with religion!

But, read MICH's post and what I was quoting:

No, the person who pretends to use religion as the motive is responsible, not the religion.

Whilst it may be so that there are other "Excuses to prey" on others, he who uses religion
as a motive for false pretenses is using a religion, still.

It has nothing to do with religion!

In this case, it does have to do with religion.

Ah stuff it, I'll leave you to debate with someone more wise...

 

[AtheistAJ]

Individuals who are religious think that anyone who doesn't believe as them will burn in hell forever, so it leads to segregation and selfishness. There are of course people who don't take their religion that seriously but call themselves religious nonetheless.

 

[Darkdale]

Individuals who are religious think that anyone who doesn't believe as them will burn in hell forever, so it leads to segregation and selfishness. There are of course people who don't take their religion that seriously but call themselves religious nonetheless.

Not all religions are like that. I am religious but I don't believe in a "heaven" and a "hell". Bad people aren't punished for their beliefs when they die as far as I'm concerned. I think that people who do believe that people who follow other faiths or no faith at all, go to hell for eternity are arrogant, if not somewhat _______.

 

[michel]

Individuals who are religious think that anyone who doesn't believe as them will burn in hell forever, so it leads to segregation and selfishness. There are of course people who don't take their religion that seriously but call themselves religious nonetheless.

I am just not sure how to take your post; I first thought your second sentence was an effective way of adding 'some' to the beginning of your first sentence. But reading it again, you could be implying that those who don't take their religion that seriously are cheating themselves into thinking they are religious ?

 

[Merlin]

Notice the "can", Merlin, if one uses this "smokescreen" in claim that it is "for their religion", then religion is still responsible.

The thing responsible for any act, is the initial motivation.

So if I conspire with you to set off to conquer new lands to steal their goods, but persuade people to contribute money supporting us because we say we are going to make them all Christian or Muslim or whatever, it looks like religion is the cause. In reality, it is greed.

An example is the Northern Ireland situation. The IRA had a specific aim, to conquer the North and join it with the South. It just happens that the majority of the South is catholic, and the majority of the North is Protestant. But even if they had all been catholic, there still would have been this war.

 

[may]

Not all religions are like that. I am religious but I don't believe in a "heaven" and a "hell". Bad people aren't punished for their beliefs when they die as far as I'm concerned. I think that people who do believe that people who follow other faiths or no faith at all, go to hell for eternity are arrogant, if not somewhat _______.

Correct bad people are not punished after they die they just die , which is the opposite of everlasting life.

 

[Malus 12:9]

but persuade people to contribute money supporting us because we say we are going to make them all Christian or Muslim or whatever,

Somehow, I doubt that "plan" would take off too well.

 

[BeautifulMind]

Bigger than greed, Terrorism, Ethnic cleansing ?............

All of those you listed, ultimately, point back to religion.

 

[Scuba Pete]

All of those you listed, ultimately, point back to religion.

I fully disagree: they lead back to ignorance and hate: not religion!

I ran a student machine shop many eons ago for the Architectural college at the UofF (Go Gators!). I would show a student how to use a machine, make sure they demonstrated their understanding then I would simply listen. When the inevitable "arrrrranh" would happen, while the student was busy cussing at the band saw (or whatever they were using), I would simply remind them: "It's not the tool!".

So it is with religion. You can blame it for a HOST of problems, when it is only a human "tool". The hate, the bigotry, the ignorance and the stupidity ultimately lead back to the human: not the religion. Using this kind of flawed logic the bigots in America have condemned all Muslims for 9/11. That's just dumb.