It seems to me that some Christians on here do not understand Atheists

[JustWondering]

I'm pretty sure most religious people in general object to that anyway. I mean the only ones I can think that deny medicine are the JWs and even then. There are many doctors who are some flavor of religious.
Being an atheist doesn't automatically mean that one will not reject medical science. I'm sure there are atheist homeopaths.


To be fair, the official stance of even the Catholic Church is to accept science. Accepting or not accepting science is not a religious or irreligious thing. That debate seems more of an American phenomenon if I'm being honest.

Any philosophical standpoint can be detrimental or beneficial. I don't see how it's an either or scenario though.

Atheists are as diverse as humanity itself. They can hold views that are similar or even the same as the ones you denounce. That's not to say atheism itself is evil or whatever against science or anything like that. Just saying, humans are not that simple and religion even less so.

I agree, I never said all religion is bad. Religions that promote fantastical supernatural entities as being real and having to be obeyed/appeased are the ones that concern me.

 

[JustWondering]

do you really have to stumble over a grave? You are the same of those who you trying to blame.

I used to be a Christian with a mindset the exact same as I outlined in the OP. I have also seen this mindset in Christians countless times in RL and on forums. Also, I'm not blaming so much as pointing out their mindset. Perhaps you are of the mind that topics that people can get worked up about should never be discussed?

 

[JustWondering]

Hinduism is not rooted in history as Christianity is.

From 1 Corinthians 15, a creed which in the majority view would date it within 5 years of Jesus' death:

"Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me. For I am the least of the apostles, unworthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me. Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed."

You didn't answer my questions. Do you hate Hinduism? Can you say anything good about it?

 

[JustWondering]

Worm food vs. eternal reward? Easy choice. I understand Atheists, they say the chance of eternal reward is practically zero. I have two points to answer that 1) Regardless of chance, life is better with God. 2) You aren't qualified to say the odds are practically zero (arrogance isn't a qualification).

Atheists do have some good arguments. But, those arguments aren't why they're atheists. Those arguments are just window dressing. They're Atheists for the same reason many people are Christian, they've been taught to be that way. How many Atheists were there 200 years ago in America? 200 years ago, culture wasn't teaching Atheism. Today, even most Christians are practically Atheists.

When you can provide ANY empirical evidence to support your religions claims of an eternal reward than I have to stick with the opinion that your eternal reward is just a fantastical claim to make adherents eagerly compliant with its religious leaders commands. Secondly, you are not qualified to make claims about an afterlife and what it's like since you have no more clue than anyone else if an afterlife even exists.

I was religious and raised by religious parents BEFORE becoming an atheist. Guess I was right about Christians not understanding Atheists after all, huh?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I'm not afraid to bring up the topic of religion and politics with others in RL. 99% of the people I try to have discussions with are COMPLETELY clueless about the world they live in. I'm not a scholar by any stretch of the imagination but most of the people I talk to.... I lack the words to describe my frustration for the willful ignorance and apathy of the general population to important issues that really effect people.

How can challenging people to become more thoughtful and educated be anything other than a good thing?

I can see the purpose of challenging people to become more thoughtful and educated; and, yes, that can be a good thing. I don't see how challenging people can have the ability to make their beliefs disappear. What do you think it will do to the individual from that person's point of view not yours?

I define it as the universe we live in.

A Christian defines it the same way just as I do define it another and you another. You'd have to give more detail on how your views are objective while the Christian and mine are subjective.

What defines reality?

Because doctors actually exist and are trained to care for people's health. I've never seen/met a deity, so why would I assume such beings exist, let alone behave in a obviously irrational way that puts my life at risk to appease them? That being said, if a grown adult wants to refuse medical treatment for themselves, then so be it. If someone is so sick/old that their life is nothing but agony and they want to die, I can understand that too. Children on the other hand are helpless and need to be looked out for. If they want to refuse modern medicine after they grow up because an invisible entity they've never met says so, then they can do what they want. That's my stance on this.

It would make sense that an all powerful and all loving deity takes care of someone for eternity than a person to live fifty more years in and out of remission.

I don't agree with it. I don't believe in deities. However, logically speaking not from my point of view or stance, it just makes sense. Why wouldn't it?​

Another way to phrase it. It's like someone telling a child to pick the number 9 and he picks the number 6. It's wrong, yes. However, it is logical the way he got the answer he got because of the shape of the numbers so similarly. It doesn't matter if it's moral or not. It just makes sense why he got the answer he did.

It makes sense regardless if its right or wrong for an all loving god to be a better decision for a dying child to go to than to stay here on earth suffering. This isn't my stance on it. It's just saying, given the situations and beliefs, I can see why they'd do what they do regardless of my beliefs on the matter.

Yes, because laws to deny the LGBT community equal rights and respect never get passed in Merica.

Religion isn't politics. My relationship with my ancestors and what I do on a day to day basis doesn't influence anyone else more than a Christian who goes to Church in the morning just to be with her lord. That's religion.

People abuse religion all the time. It's all through history. That's not what religion is nor what it does. That's the people abusing it. Saying that religion does anything outside of making people be the best person they can be in humanity is putting down my faith and millions of others who are religious but for many know nothing of American politics.

Depends on the person, but when the religion you follow demonizes certain people wouldn't you be inclined to be unfair in regards to those people?

No. When I was part of the Church that was the furthest from my mind. People can jump off the cliff with others if they want to. That's their thing. I was focused on relationship with the sacraments, being part of the Church-the body of Christ, understanding the Bible, believing in the Bible and what it means not taking literally and cutting people's heads off just because they said "I don't want to be christian."

Religion doesn't denominate. People do. People indoctrinate using religion as a tool. There are many many many people who have been indoctrinated in religion that do not represent half of the things I see accused of them on RF. And that's just RF. I can't imagine the over handful of people in, say, Catholicism that are not demonized by their faith.

If you were Christian would you feel inclined to be unfair to others? Why?​

 

[JustWondering]

Yes, Atheism is inherently oppressive. We see this in the Democrat party which is moving toward communism (socialist Barney Sanders even comes from Big-C Communist stock). We see the Democrat Part working to oppress society in every way they can to force people to conform to how they want us to live. Their constant yelling of names (racist, homophobe, deplorables, etc.) is nothing but propaganda to achieve their ends.

In my life, I've never met an Atheist libertarian. Many of them claim to be libertarian, but they're full of BS. Some almost credibly claim to support a Free Market (economic libertarian), but libertarianism requires social freedom (see the real First Amendment), not social liberalism (Democrats have an Orwellian definition of freedom).

I find it amusing how many Christians sing the praises of Capitalism which is a system the encourages the accumulation and hoarding of wealth. Especially, since Jesus preached about how greed corrupted people and ruined their chances for getting into heaven. Jesus preached to give to the poor and to be generous. Capitalism doesn't reflect any of Jesus's teachings. If Jesus descended from Heaven today I wonder what nation/society he would be most pleased with?

 

[Jackrabbti]

I find it amusing how many Christians sing the praises of Capitalism which is a system the encourages the accumulation and hoarding of wealth. Especially, since Jesus preached about how greed corrupted people and ruined their chances for getting into heaven. Jesus preached to give to the poor and to be generous. Capitalism doesn't reflect any of Jesus's teachings. If Jesus descended from Heaven today I wonder what nation/society he would be most pleased with?

I missed the part where Jesus talked about bigger government and government dependency.

 

[McBell]

I missed the part where Jesus talked about bigger government and government dependency.

So I take it you agree the Bible is silent on masturbation, right?

 

[kaoticprofit]

It seems to me that some Christians on here do not understand Atheists

1. They are bad people who want to sin and so screw god and his rules.
2. Had something bad happen to them or a loved one and blame god for it.
3. Haven't been exposed to the gospel yet so you need to tell them about it and "save" them.

Christians don't don't agree on anything or even understand one another, how can they be expected to understand an Atheist. Christianity hasn't done much over the years to make it a very impressionable religion.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

You didn't answer my questions. Do you hate Hinduism? Can you say anything good about it?

They also recognise there is a God(s)? I suppose that's about it. Maybe their devotion, some can get quite devoted, not all though.

I am called to love all people, including Hindus, but not Hinduism and its belief system. Not saying that I hate it either, but ultimately it is false, while Christianity is the only religion that can claim to have historicity, being firmly rooted in first century Palestine and with multiple eye-witnesses.

I find it amusing how many Christians sing the praises of Capitalism which is a system the encourages the accumulation and hoarding of wealth. Especially, since Jesus preached about how greed corrupted people and ruined their chances for getting into heaven. Jesus preached to give to the poor and to be generous. Capitalism doesn't reflect any of Jesus's teachings. If Jesus descended from Heaven today I wonder what nation/society he would be most pleased with?

I'm sure Jesus would have been a Soviet sending people to the gulag.

Christians should indeed share and give their money, but Jesus never endorsed a system that would force people to do so, it was always voluntary, not a system that forces you to pay a certain amount or throw you in jail if you don't.

When you can provide ANY empirical evidence to support your religions claims of an eternal reward than I have to stick with the opinion that your eternal reward is just a fantastical claim to make adherents eagerly compliant with its religious leaders commands. Secondly, you are not qualified to make claims about an afterlife and what it's like since you have no more clue than anyone else if an afterlife even exists.

I was religious and raised by religious parents BEFORE becoming an atheist. Guess I was right about Christians not understanding Atheists after all, huh?

Read the Gospel of John, the evidence is all there, and in the other Gospels, of eye-witness accounts of Jesus' resurrection. And as stated before, 1 Corinthians 15 is from within (according to the majority view) 5 years of Jesus' death and shows the incredibly early belief in Jesus' resurrection, coupled with those who witnessed his resurrection dying for their claims, showing that they truly believed they witnessed Jesus risen. This is then further coupled with the tomb being empty, if it was not empty the Pharisees could have easily falsified what had happened.

 

[pawl]

Hello,
Commonalities between most atheists include science and reason and the disallowing of things that fall outside of those realms. Conversely, religions as institutions, and spirituality as their shared realm, allow—or demand—that reason and science play second fiddle to matters of "the spirit." The two truths are opposing in appearance. Perhaps, like all great paradoxes, both are true and good, and the exclusion of "the other" is the error.
All religions have done terrible things to humans, animals, and the planet in general, as has science (or humans in the name of science). Religions [and science] have also done wondrous things, have aided those in need and protected and celebrated life. One needn't throw out the entirety of one side or the other to embrace...each other.

 

[Kemosloby]

Hello,
Commonalities between most atheists include science and reason and the disallowing of things that fall outside of those realms. Conversely, religions as institutions, and spirituality as their shared realm, allow—or demand—that reason and science play second fiddle to matters of "the spirit." The two truths are opposing in appearance. Perhaps, like all great paradoxes, both are true and good, and the exclusion of "the other" is the error.
All religions have done terrible things to humans, animals, and the planet in general, as has science (or humans in the name of science). Religions [and science] have also done wondrous things, have aided those in need and protected and celebrated life. One needn't throw out the entirety of one side or the other to embrace...each other.

Spirituality is not the realm of religious institutions, it more like detracts from it. Science and institutions share the same realm of the physical and material world.

 

[Kemosloby]

On the positive side of Atheism and Agnosticisticism, It probably doesn't bother God as much. God says put no God before me, and at least Atheists and Agnosticists don't do that. So they do not provoke God as much as people who have false Gods.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

On the positive side of Atheism and Agnosticisticism, It probably doesn't bother God as much. God says put no God before me, and at least Atheists and Agnosticists don't do that. So they do not provoke God as much as people who have false Gods.

Is putting oneself before God not having a god before Him?

 

[Kemosloby]

Is putting oneself before God not having a god before Him?

No, it is not. Putting a God before God, as I understand it, means having a God between you and God, but if you declared yourself God and put yourself between you and God, difficult as that may be, that might do it.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

No, it is not. Putting a God before God, as I understand it, means having a God between you and God, but if you declared yourself God and put yourself between you and God, difficult as that may be, that might do it.

Within the wider scope of Scripture, would you say idolatry is simply the putting of a literal god in front of God, or our own desires and objects of desire?

 

[Kemosloby]

Within the wider scope of Scripture, would you say idolatry is simply the putting of a literal god in front of God, or our own desires and objects of desire?

Putting a literal God in front of God is the greater offence, the other might be overlooked.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

Putting a literal God in front of God is the greater offence, the other might be overlooked.

And why would God overlook sin?

 

[Kemosloby]

And why would God overlook sin?

That's all God does, until he doesn't.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

That's all God does, until he doesn't.

That God does not act now does not mean the sin goes unaccounted for, does it?