It takes a lot of reasoning to accept miracles.

[VoidoftheSun]

Pal, Even the Angel Gibriel (Satan) gave at least 5 ayat's where he admitted the Bible and New Testament is true!

Not at all, you have no clue and I am not interested in that bland discussion.

First you have to provide to me your book of God talking directly to Jesus. If you cannot provide this, then I will not accept your books which are mere **claimed** 'historical' records compiled from oral tradition.


As for an example of a direct quotation from the Holy Qur'an of what it says about the Injeel:

"Then We followed them up with Our apostles and We followed [them] with Jesus son of Mary,and We gave him the Injeel,and We put in the hearts of those who followed him kindness and mercy."
(Qur'an, Surah 57:27)

Your books are not what this (and many others) verse describes, whatsoever.

Your books are conjecture and I treat them on the basis of that. If you had a direct revelation from God given to Jesus, then this discussion would be far more interesting but you only have a bland position to uphold here.

Matt/Mark/Luke/John were not given to Jesus, neither were any of the Gnostic "gospels" - all of the aforementioned as I've said are just **claimed** 'historical' records - with no chains of transmission nonetheless.

Period.

 

[VoidoftheSun]

At the very least, what the Qur'an could refer to in relation to your books would be the DOCTRINE of the Gospel Of The Kingdom.

That's all it could be if it has anything to do with your books. Nothing else.

 

[SA Huguenot]

Lol. I do know the Qira'at, you've literally provided nothing here but empty words.

Grat, so you agree that the Quran you have now on this Earth have differences between each other!
Then these Muslims who claim that the Quran never changed are selling a lie?
Thank you for destroying this claim.
I love it when a Muslim say, The Quran did change, and the one we have now is not the xact same as what Muhammad had.
Thank you for being so truthfull.

 

[SA Huguenot]

Somebody is very intelligent. And next you're going to tell me that "Allah" means "The God" in Arabic. Then you're going to tell me that "God" in Hebrew is "EL" and that "God" in Greek (what the NT is written in) is "Theos".
So clever, so thoughtful.

And here we have another intellectual person who think if he builds a strawman and burns it, he won the battle.
On the contrary, the word Allah, and Eloa, simply means God.
It includes all "gods".
It can even be pagan gods "Elohim".
But the Name of my God in the Bible is "YHWH, or Yahweh.
And He identified Himself by this Holy name.
But, the Allah of the Quran does not know this Holy Name, therefore Allah in the Quran is just another "god". An Idol!
Even Yagel Yadin discovered an allah in Gezer dating from 1400Bc.
And funny enough this allah had a moon cresent and star on his chest.
And the manifestation of YHWH in flesh on earth was Yahwehsua, Jesus.
This Issa in the quran is also a wrong translation, Issa is Esau, not Yhwhasua!
The Quran likes paganism, Black magic, Daemon Gibriels, and other dark powers.

 

[VoidoftheSun]

Grat, so you agree that the Quran you have now on this Earth have differences between each other!
Then these Muslims who claim that the Quran never changed are selling a lie?

You're such a silly man. There are are hadith where Prophet Muhammad (A.S.) literally teach the Qira'at to the Sahaba. The Qira'at is a well-documented tradition, it is one of the most basic, fundamental things a Muslim learns with the Qur'an in arabic. As I've said you've added absolutely nothing.

And no, the Qur'an has never changed, this is objective fact.
The Bible however is a different story.

 

[VoidoftheSun]

And here we have another intellectual person who think if he builds a strawman and burns it, he won the battle.
On the contrary, the word Allah, and Eloa, simply means God.

At least you admit it.

But the Name of my God in the Bible is "YHWH, or Yahweh.
And He identified Himself by this Holy name.

You're free to believe that but it only occurs in Yahwist traditions. God is Elohim and other names in other traditions in the Tanakh. There is no objective single name of God.
Jews certainly don't refer to it by the tetragrammaton, they refer to it as HaShem or even Adonai.

The name of your God is also not YHWH, the name of your God is Jesus. You believe in the Triune Father/Son/Spirit, NOT YHWH. Don't lie.

If you didn't lie you know that your position would be shown to be how weak it is through your deity not resembling YHWH whatsoever, and mine being the spitting image of what is identified as "YHWH", "HaShem", "Adonai", "Elah", "El", "Elohim" etc.

Even Yagel Yadin discovered an allah in Gezer dating from 1400Bc.
And funny enough this allah had a moon cresent and star on his chest.
And the manifestation of YHWH in flesh on earth was Yahwehsua, Jesus.
This Issa in the quran is also a wrong translation, Issa is Esau, not Yhwhasua!
The Quran likes paganism, Black magic, Daemon Gibriels, and other dark powers.

You're doing a bad job to insult Islam because your conspiracy theories are starting to sound quite appealing. I'm sure plenty of non-Christians will want to convert to Islam after your stupid conspiracy theories.

 

[SA Huguenot]

Typical Muslim argument strategy. When you see you loose the argument, you go out and throw the book.
But lets see what you supplied in this post.

Since you're doing a genetic fallacy, I'll post the article itself:

Occultic techniques in the Hebrew Scriptures:

There are a number of instances in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) where respected biblical leaders were involved with various black magic, divination and occultic activities as a normal part of their daily activities -- apparently without any condemnations from God:

In Genesis 44:5, Joseph's household manager refers to a silver drinking cup "...in which my lord drinketh and whereby indeed he devineth". Later, Joseph accuses his brothers of stealing the cup, saying "that such a man as I can certainly divine [the identity of the thieves]". These passages show that Joseph engaged in scrying. This is an ancient occultic method of divination in which a cup or other vessel is filled with water and gazed into. This technique of foretelling the future was used by Nostradamus and is still used today.

Joseph also received dreams from God where he could discover the future of at least 14 years. He was also a prince in Egypt, and with the prophetical power God gave him, was able to lead Egypt through famine and drought for 7 years. Now, if your Bible hating author say this is sorcery, then he is making Joseph and God a devil. If you like what this charlatain say, you are guilty of the same offence, and God will hold you accountable for it.

Numbers 5:12-31 describes a ritual of black magic that the Priest would perform on a woman if her husband suspected that she he had committed adultery. Verse 17 says: "Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water.." She and her husband would go, with an offering of barley meal, to the tabernacle. The priest would make a magical drink consisting of holy water and sweepings from the tabernacle floor. He would have the woman drink the water while he recited a curse on her. The curse would state that her abdomen would swell and her thigh waste away if she had committed adultery. Otherwise, the curse would have no effect. If she were pregnant at this time, the curse would certainly induce an abortion. Yet nobody seems to have been concerned about the fate of any embryo or fetus that was present. There was no similar magical test that a woman could require her husband to take if she suspected him of adultery.

And again, your author, teacher in this website now personally calls YHWH a practicer of Black magic.
Well lets see if this is true.
Moses and the whole of Israel was in the desert for 40 years. YHWH was living in the tabernacle in the middle of Israel. The priests and elders were the judges and government. YHWH tells them to use the dust of the offering for sin, and make a concoction to have the woman to drink. If she swells up, she was guilty.
Now look at what you mised out of. This woman was brought to the High priest, IN FRONT OF THE PRESENC OF YHWH AT THE HOLY TABARNACLE WHERE YHWH'S LIGHT WAS RADIATING FOR ALL TO SEE, AND YOU SAY THIS WAS BLACK MAGIC!
dAMN i AN GLAD i AM NOT YOU THAT WILL HAVE TO ANSWER FOR CALLING YHWH A DEVIL!!!!

The Urim and Thummim were two objects mentioned in Numbers 27:21 and 1 Samuel 28:6 of the Hebrew Scriptures. They were apparently devices (perhaps in the form of flat stones) that the high priest consulted to determine the will of God. They might have worked something like a pair of dice.

No, again the Urium and Timium were two stones YHWH instructed Moses to use in making determinations on descisions. YHWH told Moses that He, God, will show the High priest the truth, because remember, no one can be close to see god in person. This was a way for YHWH to support the High Priest, and you again call YHWH a devil!!!
You are one brave man, or ignorant fool indeed.

Elisha was on his way to Bethel. Some small boys came out of the city and made fun of him because of his lack of hair; they called him "baldy". In a violent display of the power of black magic, Elisha cursed the children in the name of God. Two bears, apparently prompted by God, came out of the forest and tore 42 of the boys to shreds. The implication is that the children were all murdered. See 2 Kings 2:23-24.

You have the audacity to call YHWH a murderr?
So, If God made a judgement even after He gave clear instructions in Deut 18:18 saying that if you do not listen to His prophet, God will hold you accountable in person.
heck, you are verry brave to attack God!

Daniel, the prophet, was employed for many years in Babylon as the chief occultist to the king. He was supervisor "of the magicians, astrologers, Chaldeans and soothsayers". See Daniel 5:11.

[/QUOTE]

 

[VoidoftheSun]

I'm not interested in your replies, they're boring and like every other evangelical on the face of the planet. No thank you mate.

That article was not a negative thing either, it was positive. Good luck with your superstitions about magic though, lol.

All it comes down to is your indefensible posiiton and your claiming against the Qur'an things that are prevalent among your own texts. Bubble-wrapped religion ain't got nobody nowhere.

 

[SA Huguenot]

I'm not interested in your replies, they're boring and like every other evangelical on the face of the planet. No thank you mate.

That article was not a negative thing either, it was positive. Good luck with your superstitions about magic though, lol.

All it comes down to is your indefensible posiiton and your claiming against the Qur'an things that are prevalent among your own texts. Bubble-wrapped religion ain't got nobody nowhere.

Nice of you to give up this way.
I showed you how you lied about the date of Jesus' clay dove, and you decided to slither away in your hole.
Why? Only because you thought you have some evidence that the Quran has some divine existance when you came up for a Muslim on this forum who I showed the Quran is a book of black magic.
In stead of running away, why dont we start a debate forum where you can have me answer a point by point factual rebuttal?
Take one of any of the accusations you can give against the Bible, and I will show you how wrong you are.
Anyhow, do you agree that you accused God that He is the Devil practicing Black magic?
Are you still continuieng in arrogance?
tell us what your thoughts are on this regard.
You and God.

 

[VoidoftheSun]

Nice of you to give up this way.
I showed you how you lied about the date of Jesus' clay dove, and you decided to slither away in your hole.
Why? Only because you thought you have some evidence that the Quran has some divine existance when you came up for a Muslim on this forum who I showed the Quran is a book of black magic.
In stead of running away, why dont we start a debate forum where you can have me answer a point by point factual rebuttal?
Take one of any of the accusations you can give against the Bible, and I will show you how wrong you are.
Anyhow, do you agree that you accused God that He is the Devil practicing Black magic?
Are you still continuieng in arrogance?
tell us what your thoughts are on this regard.
You and God.

Yes to all of that you're completely correct about all of it. I give up, your intelligence is just so superior. How could I ever hope to be as intelligent as you?

 

[SA Huguenot]

dont try to gt out of your predicament pal.
There is a difference between intelligence, and spreading blatant lies!