It was only a matter of time

[Epic Beard Man]

Before they made the recent shooting a mental health issue. Well at least this is what Trump is doing cause ya know, he knows these things of course. I know people are tired of discussing race and all that but come on, this investigation is not even over yet there is a suggestion in the media that the recent tragedy has something to do with having a mental disorder?

The last major shooting was in Dallas where it was a black man shooting at cops. Immediately people assumed he was a part of BLM when the shooter himself stated he was acting alone. But now this guy, the so called 45 is going to make this a mental health issue now?

Double Standards I tell ya

 

[pearl]

As I understand it this person was court marshaled from the Air Force and multiple other problems. Which of course raises the same old question that pops up every time there is a mass shooting, how was he able to purchase the gun he used plus those found at his residence legally? Massachuesetts just made it illegal to buy a 'bump stock'. The NRA was not happy.

 

[Twilight Hue]

It doesn't matter what you do, you're not going to stop people from killing each other.

I think the issues go far deeper than just gun issues. Gun ownership hasn't really changed since the Inception of this country. What we have is a generation that is a lot different than in generations past and there's a systemic reason why people are acting the way they do.

 

[Kapalika]

Britain has a knife crime problem that puts American gun crime to shame. People will use anything to try to kill others.

If this means we will do more for mental health in the USA, hey it would be at least more effective than more bureaucratic gun regulation bloat that isn't enforced right half the time anyway because no one can understand it.

But of course guns are easy to blame, people like easy scapegoats. The truth is always more complex than that. Better enforcement of existing regulations and fixing loopholes would do good to stop these kinds of atrocities but so would more funding into mental health, reducing it's stigma or countless other things within our society. If the guy had so many issues and was discharged and all that, background checks should of cleared that up. And if it didn't, I bet it's due to a loophole.

 

[Jumi]

Most people don't understand mental health issues. Thus they're an easy thing to lay all blame on. Irresponsible, but what can we do?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

As I understand it this person was court marshaled from the Air Force and multiple other problems. Which of course raises the same old question that pops up every time there is a mass shooting, how was he able to purchase the gun he used plus those found at his residence legally? Massachuesetts just made it illegal to buy a 'bump stock'. The NRA was not happy.

Well he can obtain from a private seller but yeah from my understanding the court marshal is a felony.

 

[Augustus]

Britain has a knife crime problem that puts American gun crime to shame.

Nonsense. Where do you get that from?

31 children and teenagers (the main perpetrators and victims of knife crime) have been killed this year in UK, scaled for US population that's around 155 deaths. The figure including adults will probably be less than double this, but seeing as I have no information for that I'll add on triple for the rest of the population so I can be confident the true figure is below that number. This would be around 600 deaths (although true figure likely is almost certainly significantly lower)

In America 2014 there were 8124 homicides involving guns.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

It doesn't matter what you do, you're not going to stop people from killing each other.

I think the issues go far deeper than just gun issues. Gun ownership hasn't really changed since the Inception of this country. What we have is a generation that is a lot different than in generations past and there's a systemic reason why people are acting the way they do.

The core question here is what drives people to kill a massive group of people? What drives a human being to pick up an assault weapon and go to a public area and sentence a multitude of people to death? Societal double standards aside, this only further stigmatizes people with mental illness because now, society is creating this picture that those with severe mental illness are possible mass murderers. Trump doesn't know anything and is watering this whole thing down.

 

[pearl]

Before they made the recent shooting a mental health issue. Well at least this is what Trump is doing cause ya know, he knows these things of course.

Yet one of the first official acts of Trump was to abolish the Obama regulation that required cross checking gun applications with those receiving Social Security disability for mental health.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Two points:

1. See FactCheck.org
2. Imagine Trump's reaction had the man been Muslim.​

Our President is a vulgar white nativist and hypocrite.

 

[WalterTrull]

...there is a suggestion in the media that the recent tragedy has something to do with having a mental disorder?

Whatever divides men/women, whatever pits neighbor against neighbor, is ultimately a mental health issue. Race, pride, revenge, any form of bigotry are all sub-issues. Treat your neighbor as yourself, because he is.

 

[Revoltingest]

Before they made the recent shooting a mental health issue. Well at least this is what Trump is doing cause ya know, he knows these things of course. I know people are tired of discussing race and all that but come on, this investigation is not even over yet there is a suggestion in the media that the recent tragedy has something to do with having a mental disorder?

The last major shooting was in Dallas where it was a black man shooting at cops. Immediately people assumed he was a part of BLM when the shooter himself stated he was acting alone. But now this guy, the so called 45 is going to make this a mental health issue now?

Double Standards I tell ya

Even a broken clock will be right now & then.
So let's give Trump some credit for his rare useful commentary.

Let's consider an important & commonly shared larger goal....a free society.
This means there is always the risk that someone with sanity or emotional
woes will kill others, be it by truck, gun, poison, or other available means.
How do we prevent this?
Better mental health services would mitigate this, and of course be a service
to those in need but not constituting a threat. Sure, sure....it means raising
& spending tax money. Some might challenge this as being not libertarian.
But I say it's more libertarian to pay a little more in taxes, & endure less carnage.
It won't eliminate the problem....just make things better than they are.

Note:
I don't have a proposal to implement this.
It would take some careful thought about
how to help without curbing civil liberties.

 

[Kuzcotopia]

For me, these two statements are in contradiction.

It doesn't matter what you do, you're not going to stop people from killing each other.

there's a systemic reason why people are acting the way they do.

I actually agree with the second one, but not the first. And you're also right, that there are systemic reasons that go beyond gun control (though access to them certainly helps break body count records lately).

But are these reasons systemic to human nature, or systemic to cultural and social norms? Why these outliers? Do we have the moral strength to study and understands this?

For example, I hold the unpopular opinion that all captured mass killers should be insitutionized, not put in max security prisons or summarily executed. We have to overcome the thirst for vengeance and "justice," and recognize that there are still things we don't understand about humans neurologically and anthropologically. If we can't study and understand the mindset, how will we ever learn? How will we ever produce effective social and cultural countermeasures?

Finally, once we understand the ways that might be effective countermeasures, do we have the political will to actually intervene and use them?

In any case, I can't sit and simply say that humans just kill each other. Almost all of us don't. And if we understood the systemic reaosn, there is a possibility we could create social conditions where it never happens.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Gun ownership hasn't really changed since the Inception of this country.

Muzzle loading single shot blackpowder hand drilled smoothbores =/= 30 round semi automatics.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Nonsense. Where do you get that from?

Desperate desire to believe that the US doesn't have a problem with firearms.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

but what can we do?

Implement sensible gun control reform?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

It doesn't matter what you do, you're not going to stop people from killing each other.

Stop? No. Seems like trying to reduce it as much as practically possible might be worth a try, though...

 

[PureX]

It doesn't matter what you do, you're not going to stop people from killing each other.

I think the issues go far deeper than just gun issues. Gun ownership hasn't really changed since the Inception of this country. What we have is a generation that is a lot different than in generations past and there's a systemic reason why people are acting the way they do.

No matter what we do, we aren't going to stop people from raping each other. But that doesn't mean we should be selling rape kits at Walmart. Or that keeping rape kits in your car or backpack should be a citizen's right.

I agree that the issues are "different". For one thing, there are now 240 million of us living in this country. And a significant number of these are going to be so unstable that they're able to commit murder. This ain't the 'good old days', anymore. We need to regulate and monitor the ownership and use of deadly weapons within our very dense and complex modern society.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Even a broken clock will be right now & then.
So let's give Trump some credit for his rare useful commentary.

Let's consider an important & commonly shared larger goal....a free society.
This means there is always the risk that someone with sanity or emotional
woes will kill others, be it by truck, gun, poison, or other available means.
How do we prevent this?
Better mental health services would mitigate this, and of course be a service
to those in need but not constituting a threat. Sure, sure....it means raising
& spending tax money. Some might challenge this as being not libertarian.
But I say it's more libertarian to pay a little more in taxes, & endure less carnage.
It won't eliminate the problem....just make things better than they are.

Note:
I don't have a proposal to implement this.
It would take some careful thought about
how to help without curbing civil liberties.

But Trump doesn't know all the facts.....We don't know if he had a mental health issue.

 

[Revoltingest]

But Trump doesn't know all the facts.....We don't know if he had a mental health issue.

It seems incredibly likely to me.
So I'll give this one to Trump.
We'll see more as things settle down.